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Author Topic: The Return of the American Council of Witches  (Read 9386 times)

Catherine

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Re: The Return of the American Council of Witches
« Reply #45 on: December 06, 2011, 12:30:08 pm »
Quote from: celestialwolf;33310
And.. they're dissolved.

https://www.facebook.com/pages/US-American-Council-of-Witches/254376851271555


can't say that I'm sorry to see it.

Can you tell my why, or what eventually brought it down? I don't have a face book account, so I can't see for myself.

celestialwolf

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Re: The Return of the American Council of Witches
« Reply #46 on: December 06, 2011, 12:33:07 pm »
Quote from: Catherine;33327
can't say that I'm sorry to see it.

Can you tell my why, or what eventually brought it down? I don't have a face book account, so I can't see for myself.

 
Sure.

Main Post:

"A conversation took place between several persons that are and have been on the committee for the USACW. It was decided that: due to circumstances beyond our control “…Therefore, upon due consideration, the US American Council of Witches is hereby dissolved. This notice will remain on this page until the end of the year, after which all “US American Council of Witches” pages/sites will be taken down.”"

Later in the comments they said:

"Thanks guys, we are crying now. Politics is the main reason, the goals are good. Some of us listened to the wrong people, we were promised help from a few elders, but that is not going to happen, we got some bad advice from others, the project got out of hand very quickly. Several committee people has had their character assassinated personally on their private facebook page, stalking, potential committee members threatened, libel, the list goes on. The community does need an interfaith community where we can all get along. But that will not be today. Sorry guys. Maybe sometime in the near future, Under different circumstances."

RandallS

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Re: The Return of the American Council of Witches
« Reply #47 on: December 06, 2011, 05:12:34 pm »
Quote from: celestialwolf;33310
And.. they're dissolved.

https://www.facebook.com/pages/US-American-Council-of-Witches/254376851271555

I'm not at all surprised. This was a bad idea from the start.
Randall
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Tana

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Re: The Return of the American Council of Witches
« Reply #48 on: December 06, 2011, 05:28:01 pm »
Quote from: celestialwolf;33328
"The community does need an interfaith community where we can all get along."

My question to this would be: Why?
And the answer to that question will hold all the reason why these attempts have failed and will fail - again and again and again.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2011, 05:28:33 pm by Tana »
\'You had to repay, good or bad. There was more than one type of obligation.
That’s what people never really understood.….Things had to balance.
You couldn’t set out to be a good witch or a bad witch. It never worked out for long.
All you could try to be was a witch, as hard as you could.\'
Terry Pratchett \'Lords and Ladies\'

Confuzzled and proud. :p

RandallS

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Re: The Return of the American Council of Witches
« Reply #49 on: December 06, 2011, 05:32:04 pm »
Quote from: Tana;33371
My question to this would be: Why?
And the answer to that question will hold all the reason why these attempts have failed and will fail - again and again and again.

I believe they have failed and will continue to fail because those who want such groups never seem to realize just how diverse the beliefs and practices of the various Pagan religions they want to bring together really are.
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Jenett

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Re: The Return of the American Council of Witches
« Reply #50 on: December 06, 2011, 06:04:30 pm »
Quote from: Tana;33371
My question to this would be: Why?
And the answer to that question will hold all the reason why these attempts have failed and will fail - again and again and again.

 
Yes.

The more and more I see this sort of thing, the more I think there's something to the idea that you can have interfaith *events*, but that having interfaith *communities* are a huge amount trickier, if they are in numbers any larger than a dozen or two people. (and even that takes people being willing to be very practical about what their goals and measures for success are.)
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Rowanfox

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Re: The Return of the American Council of Witches
« Reply #51 on: December 06, 2011, 06:51:47 pm »
Quote from: Jenett;33382
Yes.

The more and more I see this sort of thing, the more I think there's something to the idea that you can have interfaith *events*, but that having interfaith *communities* are a huge amount trickier, if they are in numbers any larger than a dozen or two people. (and even that takes people being willing to be very practical about what their goals and measures for success are.)

 
When I read this, I thought of an interfaith committee with a Jew, a Christian and  Muslim representative.... the I realized that they would have the same problem, except that more people would recognize the issue. Most of the world understands that there are a huge variety of "churches", and that any one person cannot be the sole representative of all of Judaism, Christianity or Islam... but most fail to realize the same issue exists for pagans.

Then my overtired brain remembered an old joke that started out "One day, a Rabbi and Priest and an Imam were walking down the street......"


I think I need to go home now.......long day.

Jenett

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Re: The Return of the American Council of Witches
« Reply #52 on: December 06, 2011, 07:31:12 pm »
Quote from: Rowanfox;33390
When I read this, I thought of an interfaith committee with a Jew, a Christian and  Muslim representative.... the I realized that they would have the same problem, except that more people would recognize the issue. Most of the world understands that there are a huge variety of "churches", and that any one person cannot be the sole representative of all of Judaism, Christianity or Islam... but most fail to realize the same issue exists for pagans.


I was thinking of that kind of thing, actually.

(I used to spend early Sunday mornings with my mother driving me to horse-related events listening with her to a radio that basically had a Catholic priest, a Protestant minister, a Rabbi, and some other representative on, each week. It was an awesome show - they'd usually talk about some recent news story or general issue, very intelligently, and they did it not as "I am the Voice of my Faith", but a "I am a devoted practitioner of my faith, and here's the stuff that comes up for me when I hear that.")

The thing is, that local interfaith committees usually have some pretty specific goal - coordinating local charitable events, supporting each other during situations of religious misunderstandings, making sure that interfaith events are as interfaith as the community. (well, when they're doing a good job.) Those are all things where you can generally tell whether or not they're working.

Or take Pagan Pride events, when the committees are reasonably attentive to diversity in the community. It's quite possible to get a good range of representation and interaction, but that's partly because you're asking people to do it once a year, not live by the results every day.

"Let us get together some large and random number of people on the internet, to build some tenets of practice from vastly different religions that fall under a very general banner" is not that small or concrete. And it's really hard to tell if it's successful, even if it is.

Which it usually isn't, because that kind of vague mission usually leads to chaos really fast.
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SunflowerP

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Re: The Return of the American Council of Witches
« Reply #53 on: December 07, 2011, 03:38:19 am »
Quote from: celestialwolf;33310
And.. they're dissolved.

 
Good riddance.  I seldom indulge in schadenfreude, but I'll make an exception in this case.

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Melamphoros

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Re: The Return of the American Council of Witches
« Reply #54 on: December 07, 2011, 05:07:16 am »
Quote from: SunflowerP;33451
Good riddance.  I seldom indulge in schadenfreude, but I'll make an exception in this case.

 
I agree with the first part but schadenfreude is my default setting.


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RandallS

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Re: The Return of the American Council of Witches
« Reply #55 on: December 07, 2011, 08:20:57 am »
Quote from: Jenett;33396
"Let us get together some large and random number of people on the internet, to build some tenets of practice from vastly different religions that fall under a very general banner" is not that small or concrete. And it's really hard to tell if it's successful, even if it is.

One of the major differences I see between interfaith organizations in general (say the World Council of Churches) and attempts to start interfaith Pagan organizations is that the former starts with the assumption that all these religions are very different and the organization isn't trying to unify their beliefs, practices, or positions but to provide for dialogue between the various groups and to provide a way to work as a larger group on those few issues they may have in common. The latter seem to start from the incorrect assumption that most Pagan religions have a lot in common belief/practice wise and should therefore be able to speak and work as one to the world.
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Catherine

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Re: The Return of the American Council of Witches
« Reply #56 on: December 07, 2011, 09:38:24 am »
Quote from: celestialwolf;33328


Later in the comments they said:

"Thanks guys, we are crying now. Politics is the main reason, the goals are good. Some of us listened to the wrong people, we were promised help from a few elders, but that is not going to happen, we got some bad advice from others, the project got out of hand very quickly. Several committee people has had their character assassinated personally on their private facebook page, stalking, potential committee members threatened, libel, the list goes on. The community does need an interfaith community where we can all get along. But that will not be today. Sorry guys. Maybe sometime in the near future, Under different circumstances."


Thanks for filing in the blanks for me, Celestialwolf.

Interesting spin they're putting on it. From what I saw at the very beginning, I would have thought the issue was lack of support due to poor communication, among other issues.

celestialwolf

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Re: The Return of the American Council of Witches
« Reply #57 on: December 07, 2011, 10:48:04 am »
Quote from: RandallS;33464
One of the major differences I see between interfaith organizations in general (say the World Council of Churches) and attempts to start interfaith Pagan organizations is that the former starts with the assumption that all these religions are very different and the organization isn't trying to unify their beliefs, practices, or positions but to provide for dialogue between the various groups and to provide a way to work as a larger group on those few issues they may have in common. The latter seem to start from the incorrect assumption that most Pagan religions have a lot in common belief/practice wise and should therefore be able to speak and work as one to the world.

 
That's a really good point.

Asch

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Re: The Return of the American Council of Witches
« Reply #58 on: December 08, 2011, 03:01:39 am »
Quote from: celestialwolf;33491

 
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/wildhunt/

Lolz. That went about as well as expected...

sailor

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Re: The Return of the American Council of Witches
« Reply #59 on: December 08, 2011, 08:47:57 am »
Quote from: Asch;33669
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/wildhunt/

Lolz. That went about as well as expected...

 

Kenny Klein, now that's a name I haven't heard in almost 20 years.

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