Bucca Dhu and Racism: Cornish Traditional Witchcraft Discussion Post

[Nymree]

Hello all, I'm back after a pandemic-hiatus from the internet. Here's my latest moral rumination topic, feel free to input as I'm looking for outside opinions.

Bucca is the most common folk god in traditional Cornish witchcraft, and he/they are broken down into a duality: Bucca Dhu and Bucca Gwidder. Translating this from Cornish to English, these words mean 'Black Spirit' and 'White Spirit', and are most commonly interpreted to associate the Black Spirit with storm weather (black clouds) and the White Spirit with light rain (white clouds) as modern folkloricists believe that Bucca was originally a weather deity or sea god to the pre-Christian Cornish pagans.

Here's the issue: I'm concerned that the association with Bucca Dhu and black might denote a racist undertone. I should state here that I suffer with moral OCD, an OCD subtype that makes me paranoid about moral perfection in myself, so please consider that my perspective might be slightly distorted. My fear is that Bucca Dhu might represent a racist idea because He represents violence, destruction and chaos, as a god of storms, and this is linked symbolically with the colour black. This has then been used later in at least one iteration, in a racist way to represent Bucca as a black man. Therefore, my concern is that worship of Bucca Dhu may mean buying into and perpetuating a racist idea.

I've outlined my own attempts to unpack what I know about this depiction from the perspective of a Cornish folklore nut, but please bear in mind I'm a white person. I can't speak on behalf of the black community, do not interpret this as an attempt to do so.


FOR:
A single 19th century source which describes Bucca as a black man (this implies it’s a distortion, so to speak, of Bucca’s original folklore, which historically described him as wearing a black cloak rather than being a black person or having a 'black mist' around him - compare this to the white mist that might accompany light rain). It isn’t in more sources and is more than likely one antiquarians racist interpretation, but still concerning obviously.

The pairing of blackness with destruction is a stereotype of black men.

Bucca Du is also associated with the Wild Hunt, which is in turn associated with the devil (bearing in mind that both Bucca Du and Bucca Gwidder are sort of like folk devils).

Bucca is associated with: death, the Wild Hunt, the devil, destruction, storms. These aren’t positive or happy things to associate with the colour black.

I'm wary of some of the language used in Cornish Witch books, which describe Gwidder as ‘nourishing’ and ‘healing’, and Du as ‘dark and defensive magic’, ‘mischief and unpredictability’, ‘animalistic’. These are super dodgy to then associate with white vs black.

AGAINST:
The blackness for Bucca Dhu comes from his link with storms, black skies, and winter, a traditional association in Cornish culture. It represents his storm deity aspect, whereas Bucca Gwidder is the white clouds of a light rainy day. In this sense, ‘black’ in the cultural context doesn’t mean ‘bad’, it means another necessary facet of nature, more than likely coming from dark skies and darkening days in winter.

The depiction I came across is a rare manifestation and an oddity that appears to result from later Christianisation, it isn’t a ‘natural’ part of his story so to speak (from my perspective). (The reason I link this with later Christianisation is because this was a common issue in Cornish folklore, it's also visible in the way the knockers were changed later, see my previous thread on them.)

Bucca Dhu isn’t necessarily evil, neither is Bucca Gwidder – they’re actually both equally good as one another. It isn’t good vs evil, it’s just two types of weather.

It may be that the positive/negative association has more to do with winter being a harsh time, and the association existing between Bucca Dhu, black and winter in Cornish culture, moreso than the meaning I'm worried might exist here.

In modern Cornish Witchcraft, He doesn’t necessarily represent ‘destruction’ solely. He kind of represents power, empowerment. He is a strong wind. He is storm clouds. He is also death, but in the sense that death is necessary and a part of life. His role in Cornish Witchcraft shouldn’t be confused with how later Christianisation distorted him into the Devil. While the modern Cornish Traditional Craft isn’t a continuation of historic paganism, it is drawing from historic sources while rejecting later Christianisation, for the most part (which would hopefully include the variant I found).

Conclusion: I’m hesitant of ‘white good, black bad’ polarities, however this isn’t what is happening here as far as I can tell. The black & white symbolism represents two parts of a whole, neither are good or bad, they’re both just necessary. I should be wary of any language implying that either is elevated above, or perverted below, the other, because to me they seem to both represent something sacred.
In the above case, this may mean that the association is more of a coincidence? I’m hoping?

I welcome comments and engagement, I would sincerely value input as although I can provide the cultural context of white and black symbolism in Cornish culture, I can't provide the moral perspective of course.

[Night Owl]

Hello all, I'm back after a pandemic-hiatus from the internet. Here's my latest moral rumination topic, feel free to input as I'm looking for outside opinions.

I'm going to give this a try. Grains at salt to have at hand: I'm not Cornish and have no involvement with Cornish deities; I'm white; I'm not at all an expert.

So I'll start off with saying - the storm connotations make sense to me. Before a powerful storm, the sky can become so dark that it seems black. This happened to me once in Wales. It seemed like the night in the middle of the day, and then it started raining. When it rains like this, it can cause damage to structures, and I would surmise that it's dangerous for sailors and could cause similar damage to crops. I think that if this is where your academic sources are pointing then that makes a lot of sense. A storm like that would not be a good thing for a rural farming or fishing community. A dichotomy between that and more desirable and useful lighter rain makes sense too.

Following that, it also makes sense that this would become integrated with racist narratives about black people. It sounds like they mesh together very neatly in a way that would be difficult to untangle later. I don't think your wariness is unnecessary. I don't think your instincts are wrong when it comes to the material. What I do find tricky though is the idea that worship of Bucca is in and of itself a racist or non-racist activity. If you worship Bucca then you will have to make decisions about which sources and concepts to use, and make judgements about whether what you are doing is racist or allusive to racism or not. I think you would be better off using this discernment to pick out what external material you are personally comfortable with using in your own practice, and to work out whether your own UPG leans into racist ideas.

[Anon100]

Bucca is associated with: death, the Wild Hunt, the devil, destruction, storms. These aren’t positive or happy things to associate with the colour black.

I'm wary of some of the language used in Cornish Witch books, which describe Gwidder as ‘nourishing’ and ‘healing’, and Du as ‘dark and defensive magic’, ‘mischief and unpredictability’, ‘animalistic’. These are super dodgy to then associate with white vs black.

.........


Bucca Dhu isn’t necessarily evil, neither is Bucca Gwidder – they’re actually both equally good as one another. It isn’t good vs evil, it’s just two types of weather.

It may be that the positive/negative association has more to do with winter being a harsh time, and the association existing between Bucca Dhu, black and winter in Cornish culture, moreso than the meaning I'm worried might exist here.

First please excuse my cutting so much of the quote. I'm leaving the two items which caught my attention most.

Second, I also have no background in Cornish deities and have never faced the discrimination you're worried about, so please understand my words are coming from a limited view point.

Reading the whole I ended up thinking about how so much is not a question of the words from a source but the thinking of the one using those words.

I don't understand why black should be evil and white, good, even though I grew up understanding that, that was so. Right now it's really hot outside and I instinctively step out of the bright hot sun and dry grass into the comforting darker, shade and greener ground. Night can be a magic time of stars and wonderful colours while day can be a burning pain of headaches and dry, yet still one is deemed bad and the other good??

As to 'death, the Wild Hunt, the devil, destruction, storms', I can't say they are bad things. Sad, yes. Hard, definitely. Scary, for many. But never bad..
Death means parting and loss but I've known people in pain who claw through each day; I've sat beside someone whose only action was slow breathing because they needed so much pain killer and death was sad but also a comfort in that I knew they were free from the prison they'd ended up in.
The devil, as we're looking at in this situation, is temptation and evil thought personified. We all have that, it's not a question of avoiding it but rather of facing and growing stronger in seeing it. It's seeing the damage we could cause ( in that mirror ) which gives us pause and a chance to learn that there are more important things than our wants. Seeing the temptation and what it could do gives us a chance to not cause harm.
As for destruction and storms. I understand that floods can leave fertile land behind; fires can germinate and cause fresh growth on certain trees; and some islands and places are especially good for plant life due to the proximity of volcanoes.

Yes those terms are viewed as evil and wrong and there will be many idiots who will use them and the connection they have to this 'Black spirit', to then alienate and demonize groups of people. Anyone who does that is wrong and hate-filled, and twisting everything, not just the words, or people's lives, but the very fabric of what life is.

So, my small thought is, maybe it's not about the forces connected to this deity but about learning the value they have?

[SunflowerP]

First please excuse my cutting so much of the quote. I'm leaving the two items which caught my attention most.

Hi, Anon100,

Just a side note: we strongly encourage people to trim quotes to just the parts they're responding to - a quote block repeating the whole of a long post is unnecessary and makes the convo harder to follow. See our Quoting Guidelines for the full description of TC's standards, but you did it just fine!

Sunflower
TC Forum Staff

[SunflowerP]

Here's the issue: I'm concerned that the association with Bucca Dhu and black might denote a racist undertone. I should state here that I suffer with moral OCD, an OCD subtype that makes me paranoid about moral perfection in myself, so please consider that my perspective might be slightly distorted. My fear is that Bucca Dhu might represent a racist idea because He represents violence, destruction and chaos, as a god of storms, and this is linked symbolically with the colour black. This has then been used later in at least one iteration, in a racist way to represent Bucca as a black man. Therefore, my concern is that worship of Bucca Dhu may mean buying into and perpetuating a racist idea.

I don't think honoring Bucca Dhu inherently involves buying into the racism of one 19th-century arsehole; the Bucca(s) have a long history before that. Nor do I think it necessarily means reifying the racially-charged 'black = evil' trope - that's an easy trap to fall into, as witness the authors of Cornish Witch books that you refer to, but not an inevitable one (hmm, I think that might be one for the List Darkhawk and I are constantly compiling, of assumptions people often bring unexamined from their previous [or still-practiced, in the case of many traditional folk witches] religion or religiously-influenced cultural background).

It does mean being mindful and careful about how you use words, but that's something worth cultivating in any case, and doubly so if one is practicing witchcraft; careless use of language makes for bad spelling. (That's not even a pun; 'spell' as in 'the letter that make a word' and 'spell' as in magic both come from the same etymological root.)

Do, please, keep on posting threads like these! First because, yes, getting input from others can be an excellent tool for managing scrupulosity. But also because they provide an excellent opportunity for discussion of potentially-problematic issues as they relate to paganism, in TC's 'discussion and debate' tradition. When such topics arise as a result of someone being careless or insensitive, the convo is often fraught and emotionally-charged, which makes it much harder to talk reasonably about the ins and outs of the issue.

Sunflower

[Nymree]

I don't think honoring Bucca Dhu inherently involves buying into the racism of one 19th-century arsehole; the Bucca(s) have a long history before that. Nor do I think it necessarily means reifying the racially-charged 'black = evil' trope - that's an easy trap to fall into, as witness the authors of Cornish Witch books that you refer to, but not an inevitable one
Sunflower

I really like this perspective, I do think this is likely one of those cases where you take context and personal approach, and make sure you practice a healthy amount of caution with your language and sources.

I thought I'd add on to the thread again, as I've actually found a second source now referring to Bucca as a black man. However, oddly enough it refers to him in language which is more positive, and describes him in terms which distant him from the Satan/bad language of earlier and aligns him more with sea spirits in Cornish folklore. It's almost like two very different characters.

While it does seem like there's an emerging pattern here, I do think this god/spirit seems to have lots of different versions and descriptions, enough to perhaps justify me still using him in my practice while also taking my own, anti-racist spin on his tradition. However that works out.

I'll include quotes from the two sources below so others can see, I'd like to know if this changes anyone's opinions since it's an interesting development.

"There are many Cornish folklore tales which tell stories of sea spirit mermen coming to shore to inhabit coastal communities during stormy weather. The Tale of the Sea Bucca describes the being as having the dark brown skin of a conger eel, and a mound of seaweed hair. Legend suggests that he was once a human prince who was cursed by a witch. He helped local fishermen by driving fish towards their nets, and in return, the fishermen would leave fish on the beach to placate him." https://www.penwitheye.co.uk/2021/09/tale-of-the-sea-bucca/

"then, by its light, I saw, a little way back sitting under a tree, who should 'e think? Why no less than old witch Bet, of the Mill. And by her side a strapping dark-faced fellow, that wasn't bad looking and that one wouldn't[16] take to be a devil at all but for the company he was with, and the sight of his forked tail that just peeped out from under his coat-skirts."  Tales and Hearthside Stories of West Cornwall Vol 2. "Duffy and the Devil", (p.20) - William Bottrell -  published in the 1800s.