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Author Topic: Christo-Paganism: Some Answered Questions  (Read 9739 times)

SunflowerP

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Re: Christo-Paganism: Some Answered Questions
« Reply #75 on: June 07, 2012, 11:35:23 pm »
Quote from: monsnoleedra;59002
Thus the reason one should not read or respond to posts when they are filled with pain killers and thier mind upon a child in the hospital.  I would have done better to just journey last night than anything else.

 
I hope everyone's okay.

I kinda thought there must be something; your spelling is often off-base enough to be confusing, but you don't usually misread others' spelling.

Sunflower
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SunflowerP

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Re: Christo-Paganism: Some Answered Questions
« Reply #76 on: June 07, 2012, 11:47:41 pm »
Quote from: cigfran;59034
Huh. I always figured the "God of Abraham" was just that, regardless of credal differences.

I am now a bit weirded out.

-cogitatecogitatecogitate...-

 
Heh... and that was the station on the thought-train line where I boggled, last night.

I'm glad it came up, since I hadn't really considered my "cognate-kin" concept (for deities whose names are linguistically cognate, or who are otherwise historically akin, but who have sufficiently-differing lore that they can't simply be taken as the same being, f'ex Manannan/Manawyddan, Odin/Woden/Wotan, Aset/Isis, Hermes/Mercury, etc, etc) in context of that deity, and it might be a useful angle to consider it from.

And thank you, Darkhawk, for seeing where I was going with that thought and explaining it so well!

Sunflower
I'm the AntiFa genderqueer commie eclectic wiccan Mod your alt-right bros warned you about.
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“Selfishness is not living as one wishes to live, it is asking others to live as one wishes to live.” - Oscar Wilde
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My much-neglected blog "If You Ain't Makin' Waves, You Ain't Kickin' Hard Enough"

SunflowerP

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Re: Christo-Paganism: Some Answered Questions
« Reply #77 on: June 08, 2012, 12:23:47 am »
Quote from: Juniperberry;59041
I may gnaw and gnash for twenty posts but eventually I get around to making some kind of sense. ;)

 I wouldn't say it's YHWH necessarily, it isn't "the desert god", but it is a European creation that is based from those traditions. Like Darkhawk said with Isis, I find it similar to the Germanic Mercurius Gebrinius who wasn't necessarily the Roman Mercury but a Germanic acknowledgement of that spiritual abstraction which was present in the context of their own unique lives and became a tribal deity.

 
And once the Christ aspect (and it is the Christ aspect, as distinct from the Jesus aspect) is elucidated, "Christo-pagan" is - while still, as you noted, inadequate - not grossly inaccurate.  Oh, the "pagan" part is a bit tricky, but there's still enough reference there to the magicoreligious components of the preChristian cultural fabric that I think it works.

It's hard to find a particular spot to draw a line, since the shift of culture is gradual, but when a religiocultural structure undergoes a change in religious worldview (i.e., not just adopting deities from elsewhere into the existing worldview, as, f'ex, the ancient Greeks did plenty of), the eventual result is a different - though related - culture.  When the shift involves a preChristian, or pagan, religioculture being Christianized, there comes a time when - retention of other customs notwithstanding - it's just not meaningfully pagan any longer (though the whole issue does highlight the ways in which any use of "pagan", especially without a modifier, isn't as meaningful as people often like to think).

Before any of the recent discussions about Christo-paganism came up, I would have cited one of the legitimate/supportable uses of "Christo-pagan" to be in reference to reconstructing a religioculture at the time of the transition, when (in the case of many but not necessarily all cultures) a worldview blending both Christian ideas and the pre-existing religioculture is on record as having currency.  It sounds like that's approximately what you're exploring.

Sunflower
I'm the AntiFa genderqueer commie eclectic wiccan Mod your alt-right bros warned you about.
I do so have a life; I just live part of it online!
“Selfishness is not living as one wishes to live, it is asking others to live as one wishes to live.” - Oscar Wilde
"Nobody's good at anything until they practice." - Brina (Yewberry)
My much-neglected blog "If You Ain't Makin' Waves, You Ain't Kickin' Hard Enough"

HekaPan

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Re: Christo-Paganism: Some Answered Questions
« Reply #78 on: June 08, 2012, 01:15:40 am »
Quote from: Staff of Sekhmet;58279
I don't even know if this kind of thread is allowed here, but I have noticed a few threads in which Christo-Paganism has been discussed, and I thought maybe this kind of thread would be a good idea. I consider myself a Christo-Pagan and will try to answer any question or inquiry as aptly as possible.

Christo-Paganism. Well, now, that means in layman's terms, Christ-based Paganism.
 
It's an oxymoron. Christ and Paganism cannot co-exist. I grew up Pentecostal Holiness and lemme tell ya, Paganism and Witchcraft is a big No-No! Christianity cannot intermingle beliefs with Paganism, but Paganism may well intermingle beliefs with Christianity.
 
However, there is a great difference when folk magic is being practiced within the bounds of Christianity because there are no deities/spirits from other traditions/religions being called upon and is focused on the Christian God and the Christian God alone with some aid from the Catholic saints, depending on the individual. The reason? The individuals do not classify it as witchcraft or magic.
 
Just my two cents . . .
Yours in the Craft,

Heka Pan

monsnoleedra

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Re: Christo-Paganism: Some Answered Questions
« Reply #79 on: June 08, 2012, 01:18:58 am »
Quote from: SunflowerP;59093
I hope everyone's okay.

I kinda thought there must be something; your spelling is often off-base enough to be confusing, but you don't usually misread others' spelling.

Sunflower

My grand-son spent almost 12 days in the PICU with Spinal Meningitis.  He came home just a couple of days ago but were still dealing with IV feeds every 8 hours for his antibiotics.  Then add were fighting for custody of them though we have temporary guardianship as my son and his ex-wife go through all the divorce & post-divorce custody issues.  In that battle she has accused nearly everyone in the house of something which means CPS (Child Protective Services) and DHHR (Department of Health and Human resources has been in and out quite a bit.

The pain killers definitely do not help with having an clear mind.  A by product of serving for 23 years in the Navy and being disabled because of it.  One can only go so long before the body can no longer do as we wish.  For me it is a messed up spine and degradation in my arms and legs.  Though my wife is adamit that I suffer some memory loss and attention loss due to a concussion I got while deployed off of Bosnia.

Spelling for me has always been an issue, especially in the sense I see it correctly when I proof read so miss the mis-spelled words or phrases.  Drives people crazy for I can spell it out loud with no errors but the moment I put it to the screen or paper I am so intent on the spelling I see it correctly.  I try to use spell checker programs when ever possible on the boards but so many of them have to download the applications or the program goes off into lah lah land on me.
 
Sorry for the side tracking of the thread there.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2012, 01:19:44 am by monsnoleedra »

HekaPan

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Re: Christo-Paganism: Some Answered Questions
« Reply #80 on: June 08, 2012, 01:39:24 am »
Quote from: monsnoleedra;59113
My grand-son spent almost 12 days in the PICU with Spinal Meningitis.  He came home just a couple of days ago but were still dealing with IV feeds every 8 hours for his antibiotics.  Then add were fighting for custody of them though we have temporary guardianship as my son and his ex-wife go through all the divorce & post-divorce custody issues.  In that battle she has accused nearly everyone in the house of something which means CPS (Child Protective Services) and DHHR (Department of Health and Human resources has been in and out quite a bit.

[Insert Thread Hijacking]
 
Apologize in advance for hijacking the thread, but I remember my mom and dad (maternal grandparents who legally adopted me) talking about my hospitalization when I was 2 1/2 years old and had Bacterial Meningitis.
 
I'm not too familiar with the other forms of Meningitis, but know my thoughts and energies are being sent to you and your grandson. I'll also send some energy for the divorce and post-divorce custody issues to be resolved in a timely manner and in the best interest of the child.
 
[/End Thread Hijacking]
« Last Edit: June 08, 2012, 01:39:55 am by HekaPan »
Yours in the Craft,

Heka Pan

SunflowerP

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Re: Christo-Paganism: Some Answered Questions
« Reply #81 on: June 08, 2012, 03:31:48 am »
Quote from: monsnoleedra;59113
Spelling for me has always been an issue, especially in the sense I see it correctly when I proof read so miss the mis-spelled words or phrases.  Drives people crazy for I can spell it out loud with no errors but the moment I put it to the screen or paper I am so intent on the spelling I see it correctly.  I try to use spell checker programs when ever possible on the boards but so many of them have to download the applications or the program goes off into lah lah land on me.
 
Sorry for the side tracking of the thread there.

 
Have you ever been tested for dyslexia?  I'm not even remotely qualified for diagnostics, but some of what happens with your spelling makes me wonder about that.

Sunflower
I'm the AntiFa genderqueer commie eclectic wiccan Mod your alt-right bros warned you about.
I do so have a life; I just live part of it online!
“Selfishness is not living as one wishes to live, it is asking others to live as one wishes to live.” - Oscar Wilde
"Nobody's good at anything until they practice." - Brina (Yewberry)
My much-neglected blog "If You Ain't Makin' Waves, You Ain't Kickin' Hard Enough"

monsnoleedra

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Re: Christo-Paganism: Some Answered Questions
« Reply #82 on: June 08, 2012, 03:44:36 am »
Quote from: SunflowerP;59126
Have you ever been tested for dyslexia?  I'm not even remotely qualified for diagnostics, but some of what happens with your spelling makes me wonder about that.

Sunflower


No.  Most of the issues started after I crunched my head on an unprotected steel I-beam on ship.  Hit it so hard that I compressed parts of my spine and crunched a number of vertibrae connectors.  I don't even recall how I got from the top of the ladder to the bottom, only that I finally remember a Marine standing over me asking "Chief, you ok?'

My most recent scans and such show I have suffered some unusual schrinkage of the brain and have some scarring.  Far beyond what would be expected for my age is what my doctors have said.  Bad part is nothing can be done about it.

Today they would say it was a TBI incident but back then (mid 1990's) it was shut up and go back to work and stop gripping.   So I spent six months on deployment with some severe issues of dizziness and vertigo with vomiting for about the first month afterwards.

All because someone broadcasted over the 1MC system...Battlestations, battlestations this is no drill! All hands man your battlestations!

Sorry probably more info than you needed but figured it was justified to help people understand.

Holdasown

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Re: Christo-Paganism: Some Answered Questions
« Reply #83 on: June 08, 2012, 10:07:56 am »
Quote from: monsnoleedra;59113
My grand-son spent almost 12 days in the PICU with Spinal Meningitis.  He came home just a couple of days ago but were still dealing with IV feeds every 8 hours for his antibiotics.


Be prepared for him being unable to stay away once sleepy and memory issues. You may even want to consider some summer tutoring to keep him up with school if he's that old.

monsnoleedra

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Re: Christo-Paganism: Some Answered Questions
« Reply #84 on: June 08, 2012, 10:35:48 am »
Quote from: Ula;59175
Be prepared for him being unable to stay away once sleepy and memory issues. You may even want to consider some summer tutoring to keep him up with school if he's that old.


He's going to be three next week.  But the sleep part has hit but that is common in my family to sleep a lot when where sick.  In that regard he is not doing anything unusual.  We just worry a lot for him and his twin as they were bron three months premature though thye've come along way since the NICU.

Juniperberry

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Re: Christo-Paganism: Some Answered Questions
« Reply #85 on: June 08, 2012, 02:15:20 pm »
Quote from: SunflowerP;59104
And once the Christ aspect (and it is the Christ aspect, as distinct from the Jesus aspect) is elucidated, "Christo-pagan" is - while still, as you noted, inadequate - not grossly inaccurate.  Oh, the "pagan" part is a bit tricky, but there's still enough reference there to the magicoreligious components of the preChristian cultural fabric that I think it works.

It's hard to find a particular spot to draw a line, since the shift of culture is gradual, but when a religiocultural structure undergoes a change in religious worldview (i.e., not just adopting deities from elsewhere into the existing worldview, as, f'ex, the ancient Greeks did plenty of), the eventual result is a different - though related - culture.  When the shift involves a preChristian, or pagan, religioculture being Christianized, there comes a time when - retention of other customs notwithstanding - it's just not meaningfully pagan any longer (though the whole issue does highlight the ways in which any use of "pagan", especially without a modifier, isn't as meaningful as people often like to think).

Before any of the recent discussions about Christo-paganism came up, I would have cited one of the legitimate/supportable uses of "Christo-pagan" to be in reference to reconstructing a religioculture at the time of the transition, when (in the case of many but not necessarily all cultures) a worldview blending both Christian ideas and the pre-existing religioculture is on record as having currency.  It sounds like that's approximately what you're exploring.

Sunflower

And, personally, its not something I'm wanting to codify.  Awhile back I changed part of the secondary title of my blog from "heathen" to "folk living";  trying to figure out the politics and hyper-analyzing that seems to go against the grain of just simple, daily living. Though, I had a lot to say about it yesterday.

Anyway. The matron votive stones in Germany have names that translate to "that beyond the woods", "that of the Elbe River", etc etc.  God/Jesus to me right now is "that at the border of Christianity." Its there,  and I'm interpreting it based on how it influences things that I know: effects on my garden, my dreams, how I interact with my ancestors, my luck, that sort of stuff. But I'm not changing where I stand.

Admitting it openly takes my religious identity away from annoying heathen recon and may make me have less in common with that community-- and that was the transition that concerned me, but I don't feel I've lost anything, rather, I'm just honestly engaging with a vibrant, living world.

Brina, you may have conjured Randall,  but I still didn't get a spiffy new mod hat for my collection. ;p
« Last Edit: June 08, 2012, 02:19:55 pm by Juniperberry »
The pace of progress in artificial intelligence (I’m not referring to narrow AI) is incredibly fast. [...] The risk of something seriously dangerous happening is in the five year timeframe. 10 years at most.--Elon Musk

I am in the camp that is concerned about super intelligence," [Bill] Gates wrote. "First the machines will do a lot of jobs for us and not be super intelligent. That should be positive if we manage it well. A few decades after that though the intelligence is strong enough to be a concern. I agree with Elon Musk and some others on this and don\'t understand why some people are not concerned."

DancesWithHorses

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Re: Christo-Paganism: Some Answered Questions
« Reply #86 on: July 05, 2012, 11:24:15 am »
Quote from: SunflowerP;59104
And once the Christ aspect (and it is the Christ aspect, as distinct from the Jesus aspect) is elucidated, "Christo-pagan" is - while still, as you noted, inadequate - not grossly inaccurate.  Oh, the "pagan" part is a bit tricky, but there's still enough reference there to the magicoreligious components of the preChristian cultural fabric that I think it works.


I've seen the label of sorts applied often enough  but many of the Christo-pagans I've met usually had beliefs that matched those of a more liberal Christian church but also had other beliefs in particular other dimensions, the paranormal, spirits (not sure what the TC terms are). It depended on the individual but all them believed in the Trinity.

I struggled with this at the beginning of my path 3 or 4 years ago now. I believe in God, a single god. And a few of the folk holidays I consider very important to me are Catholic in origin.

Due to the fact that I live in a Bible belt and openly practising anything other than some form of Christianity would severely and more than likely negatively affect my everyday life, I am a member of the United Church of Canada, which is very liberal as already noted. I attend for family functions and similar events. I don't take Communion, I am simply there out of love and respect.  I was baptized and confirmed there in that church.  The minister is aware that I'm not like the rest of the congregation. Sweet lady, she actually gave me the courage to move on my own path, she knew how unhappy I was and how much I struggled to pretend I believed in something I most certainly didn't.  The official term she used was "Non-conformist." Its in the United Church Observer archives somewhere. I'd have to dig out my notes but the basics of it is that a non-conformist is a believer but views much of the teachings with skeptism and the Bible as a collection of stories. If that confused anyone, the main thing is that most people are welcome in the United Church and I wasn't judged.  To quote the minister, "as long as you are a good person, honest, hardworking, faithful and generous, you may come here anytime."

I know I walk a very cloudy path but it gets more solid everyday.
Jinx or Jinxy :)
Add a dash of folklore, a few centuries of farmer\'s blood and mix well.
[/B]

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