Pagan Misconceptions

[cofcStudent]

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I'm a student at the College of Charleston doing a paper on Paganism. My paper will specifically focus on misconceptions/stereotypes of Paganism and then the actual beliefs and practices that counter those misconceptions. The paper's aim is to show that these misconceptions, such as devil worship, are NOT what Pagans believe in or practice. I was wondering if you all could answer a few questions:

-What misconceptions have friends, coworkers, or even family asked about Paganism? For example, has anyone asked you if you worship the devil or some other untrue practice? (If no one has asked you about stereotypes, what misconceptions are Pagans most aware of?)

-What effect have misconceptions had on potential new members of Paganism?

-What do Pagans do to try to counter these misconceptions and to get the truth of Pagan practices and beliefs out into the world or do most Pagans stay uninvolved in spreading the true practices and beliefs?

-How do Pagans feel about their portrayal in television, movies, and the media?


I've been having a hard time with time management this semester as I've added a second part time job to my schedule. The paper is due this Wednesday. I've been speaking with local Pagans and covens but would like a larger sample. I understand that some here might not want their names or other info in my paper and can confirm that I am willing to keep any identities anonymous.

Thanks!

[catja6]

...

Cofcstudent,

Have you read our research guidelines? They can be found here:

http://www.ecauldron.com/forum/misc.php?do=vsarules

(At that link, go to the drop-down menu that says "More Rules," and click on "Research Guidelines.")

We ask that you read and follow them when trying to conduct research at TC. If your paper is for a post-secondary class, or if you plan on using direct quotes from our members we ask that you email the hosts first with a complete description of your program and paper.  And while in the US, universities do not generally require students writing class papers to go through the ethics board approval process, you need to be aware that doing anything that involves interviewing human subjects does have ethical rules and guidelines -- such as respecting the community rules and norms of the people you're trying to interview.  Here at TC, that means getting the approval of the hosts to conduct research.
 
Catja
Staff at The Cauldron: A Pagan Forum

[cofcStudent]

Cofcstudent,

Have you read our research guidelines? They can be found here:

http://www.ecauldron.com/forum/misc.php?do=vsarules

(At that link, go to the drop-down menu that says "More Rules," and click on "Research Guidelines.")

We ask that you read and follow them when trying to conduct research at TC. If your paper is for a post-secondary class, or if you plan on using direct quotes from our members we ask that you email the hosts first with a complete description of your program and paper.  And while in the US, universities do not generally require students writing class papers to go through the ethics board approval process, you need to be aware that doing anything that involves interviewing human subjects does have ethical rules and guidelines -- such as respecting the community rules and norms of the people you're trying to interview.  Here at TC, that means getting the approval of the hosts to conduct research.
 
Catja
Staff at The Cauldron: A Pagan Forum

 

Catja,

I did not see that section of rules. When I signed up, I was asked to check that I read the main rules that shows on that link you gave me, not any other rule sets. I am new to message boards so I hope you can understand the confusing layout of the rules and that in posting this, I was not attempting to disrespect your rules. How can I get into contact with "the hosts"? Are they the two co-hosts listed on the side bar? Do I message both or just one?

Thanks!

[catja6]

Catja,

I did not see that section of rules. When I signed up, I was asked to check that I read the main rules that shows on that link you gave me, not any other rule sets. I am new to message boards so I hope you can understand the confusing layout of the rules and that in posting this, I was not attempting to disrespect your rules. How can I get into contact with "the hosts"? Are they the two co-hosts listed on the side bar? Do I message both or just one?

Thanks!

 
Email either Randall or Lyric Fox through their profiles, which can be accessed through the sidebar.

[RandallS]

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As noted in the OP, this is now approved.

[SatSekhem]

-What misconceptions have friends, coworkers, or even family asked about Paganism? For example, has anyone asked you if you worship the devil or some other untrue practice? (If no one has asked you about stereotypes, what misconceptions are Pagans most aware of?)

I get asked a lot if I fly on a broom or if I dance naked under the moon.

-How do Pagans feel about their portrayal in television, movies, and the media?

To be honest, most portrayals in the media are either offensive or inaccurate.

[Celtag]

I get asked a lot if I fly on a broom or if I dance naked under the moon.


To be honest, most portrayals in the media are either offensive or inaccurate.

I would say that when I tell people I'm a pagan they automatically think i worship Satan.

[yewberry]

What misconceptions have friends, coworkers, or even family asked about Paganism?

If they've heard the term, most of them have the same misconception you seem to--that paganism is a religion (it's not...it's an umbrella term describing a lot of very different religions).  They assume what I believe is Wiccish (which it mostly isn't).

I don't know many of the sorts of Christians who might label me a Satan worshiper because of my beliefs.  And if I did, I probably wouldn't talk religion with 'em.

What effect have misconceptions had on potential new members of Paganism?

 
Knee-jerk, reactionary victimhood?  Touching the defenses of someone who's new to their beliefs is a recipe for unpleasantness.  It's rarely entirely (or even partly) the fault of the aforementioned perceiver, however.

What do Pagans do to try to counter these misconceptions and to get the truth of Pagan practices and beliefs out into the world or do most Pagans stay uninvolved in spreading the true practices and beliefs?

 
Getting together on message boards is a good place to start.  As I'm pretty stand-alone in my beliefs, my "truths" are exclusive to me.  I'll share them here, but the wider world usually isn't particularly interested.  I have been known to publicly correct misconceptions out here in the real world, but it's so rare as to be statistically irrelevant.

How do Pagans feel about their portrayal in television, movies, and the media?

This pagan is mostly meh about it all.  The term "witch", for example, has had many connotations over the centuries.  All of these are technically correct in a given situation.  And it's not like there aren't loonies out there doing bad things and calling themselves witches, pagans, or what have you.  I'm a lot more concerned (for example) about the way my gender is portrayed, frankly.

Brina

[Morag]

-What misconceptions have friends, coworkers, or even family asked about Paganism? For example, has anyone asked you if you worship the devil or some other untrue practice? (If no one has asked you about stereotypes, what misconceptions are Pagans most aware of?)

Early on I got a lot of devil worship assumptions, as well as "fly me to the moon" jokes. One guy once asked me if I could hex someone to masturbate until their genitals fell off.

Now I get a lot of "Oh, so you're Wiccan!" misconceptions, which honestly is more annoying and less entertaining.  Not all pagans are Wiccan. Not all witches are Wiccan. This is something I'd like the entire world to know. Most especially many pagans.

There are also misconceptions regarding the gods I work with -- or even gods I don't work with -- which drive me up the wall. Artemis is not a sexuality/fertility goddess and should not be called with Pan. Brighid is not a fluffy bunny -- yes, She's loving, but serving Her is not a gentle walk in the park. Morrigan is not OOKY SPOOKY GOFFIC nor is She sweetness and light and flowers. And She most certainly is not married to Lugh.

Seriously, people, read the myths. Study. Not that difficult.

-What effect have misconceptions had on potential new members of Paganism?

I'm not terribly concerned with recruitment. If misconceptions scare people away, whatever.

However, sometimes misconceptions get carried into paganism w/ new members, and then a lot of time and energy is spend on educating. Which is fine if you're in a 101 area, but when you're in graduate studies and someone derails the conversation with "But what about this!" 101-stuff, it can be rather annoying.

-What do Pagans do to try to counter these misconceptions and to get the truth of Pagan practices and beliefs out into the world or do most Pagans stay uninvolved in spreading the true practices and beliefs?

 
Can't speak for all pagans here.

When it comes to my public life, I do very little to counter misconceptions because it's a waste of breath and energy. If someone wants to believe all that crap about me, whatever. I just avoid them. Or shake a stick at them and say nonsense words, if they won't leave me alone. That's fun.

Mostly, though, I just live my life as I always have: as a productive member of society who is more than a little insane. When people get to know and love me and then figure out I'm pagan, that does a lot more for countering misconceptions than anything I'll ever say or argue.


When it comes to my life in the pagan community Wizarding World, I take as much time as I can to educate people.

-How do Pagans feel about their portrayal in television, movies, and the media?

 
I tell people I'm exactly as powerful and mean as Dark Willow, and if they believe me then they leave me alone. If they know I'm joking, I have a new friend.

Most depictions are meh. Not exciting enough for me to get worked up about. I get more pissed off at misogyny, which does often go hand in hand with wrong depictions of pagans (see The Wicker Man with Nicholas Cage: wimminz are ebils and will steal your manhood! Also BEEEEEZZZZ).

Honestly, sometimes pop culture can have cool things one can incorporate into practice. Full Metal Alchemist, for example, has that hand clap and then slap on the ground thing that I use occasionally.

[Jenett]

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-What misconceptions have friends, coworkers, or even family asked about Paganism? For example, has anyone asked you if you worship the devil or some other untrue practice? (If no one has asked you about stereotypes, what misconceptions are Pagans most aware of?)

First: people have had misconceptions, but the *scope* of those misconceptions has been roughly the same (and in some cases, notably less) than it was when I was Catholic and talking to non-Catholics. (And I grew up in Boston, an area where Catholicism is not exactly surprising as a religion.)

Which is to say: people as a whole do not have great religious literacy. I don't expect people to be better about Paganism as a group of religions or any number of Pagan paths than they are about monotheism, Catholicism, or Judaism.

I've been asked if what I do is like in Harry Potter, but usually in a tone that suggests they're pretty sure that's not it, but they're not sure where else to start the conversation.

I also lead into that kind of conversation (which is generally under my control: I don't wear obviously Pagan jewelry/clothing/etc. outside of ritual spaces, generally.) by talking about being a modern polytheist.

Usually around the time witchcraft comes up (where there tend to be more misconceptions that people are familiar with), I've already mentioned that I view magic as another kind of technology: a way to help me do the things that matter to me. (and with some non-threatening examples: deal with challenges in my life like a health crisis or a big move, just the way other religions  and spiritual practices have their methods for asking for help and support with those things.)

What effect have misconceptions had on potential new members of Paganism?

Honestly, the media-driven misconceptions I find pretty simple to deal with: people either drop them fast or they don't find much in most Pagan paths to keep them interested.

The ones I think are more complicated are the misconceptions about how religion can work that people bring with them from their past experience - a lot of people come in with the idea that there are stable known places to find other Pagans (most of us meet in rented spaces or private houses), that clergy and group leaders are available almost immediately during a crisis (most clergy work at other jobs), or that they can sit back and someone else will do the heavy work of making community happen (easy when you're talking a larger congregation with a couple of full time staff. Doesn't work so well in a small group.)

What do Pagans do to try to counter these misconceptions and to get the truth of Pagan practices and beliefs out into the world or do most Pagans stay uninvolved in spreading the true practices and beliefs?

I can't answer for Pagans in general. What *I* do?

- Hang out on forums like this one, and answer intro questions, as I have the time and energy, to help people connect with spiritual paths that might work for them, whether or not that's mine. (Which is another one of those misconception things: I actually think very few people are a good fit for my specific path, and that's fine and okay. Doesn't stop me from suggesting alternates.)

- I was a board member for 5 years for the Twin Cities metro area Pagan Pride event (i stopped because I moved out of the area, and I suspect starting one in the rural area I'm now in may be part of my life in another year or two.)

These events are specifically designed for public education about Paganism, and they take place in a wide range of places across the US, Canada, and internationally. (They vary a lot in size and depth.) http://paganpride.org is the parent organization website.

- I've done presentations for diversity club and comparative religion classes at the high school (private school, non-religious) I used to work at, and may well do them again at the current job (small college) in the future.

- I've done educational sessions for librarians (I am one, and my sister's a library science professor) about collection development for minority religious groups. (In my dream world, there would be professional journal articles about that, but I have not simultaneously had the energy/time for the necessary data collection and a suitable way to collect data at the same time. And these days, it's enough out of my job scope that it's hard to justify the time as a work-related task.)

- And I do a whole bunch of other general writing, talking, meeting people for coffee, and such as it comes up. (Again, due to the move, how I do some of that is shifting - privacy issues are different in a town of 8000 than in a city of close to 2 million...)

Some of this is something I consider part of my obligation as a priestess and initiate who's committed to passing on my own particular tradition (help build the community you want to live in). More of it is about the fact that my librarian-self has a really hard time with people being ignorant about stuff when I can help fix it.

How do Pagans feel about their portrayal in television, movies, and the media?

About how I feel about depictions of anyone's religion or subculture in media: it's usually lousy, and it's often lousy in ways that I think weaken the stories, just to make things worse.

I think we can do better, as a culture. I wish we would. But I don't think that media is, in general, out to get Pagans any more than they are any other sincere religious group.

I am glad to be quoted as Jenett or Jenett Silver (the name I write Pagan material under), but my standard thing for people quoting me is "please arrange to send me a copy of the finished work (you can PM or email me through here, and I'll share a good email.)

[cofcStudent]

Thank you all so much for your input! Your responses have helped me make sure I've covered all of the predominant misconceptions and also gave me a sense of the feelings and reactions to these incorrect beliefs about Paganism.

I am glad to be quoted as Jenett or Jenett Silver (the name I write Pagan material under), but my standard thing for people quoting me is "please arrange to send me a copy of the finished work (you can PM or email me through here, and I'll share a good email.)

 
Unfortunately, I have had the experience of sending my work only to have it plagiarized. I never thought that people actually did that in real life, just movies! While it would be unlikely for a plagiarism to be caught here, thereby not risking my grades, and I do not believe anyone here would do that, I cannot fairly say yes to some and no to others. I will respect your requests by not quoting/paraphrasing you in my paper, but thank you for taking the time to answer my questions!

[Etheric1]

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 The paper's aim is to show that these misconceptions, such as devil worship, are NOT what Pagans believe in or practice. I was wondering if you all could answer a few questions:

-What misconceptions have friends, coworkers, or even family asked about Paganism? For example, has anyone asked you if you worship the devil or some other untrue practice? (If no one has asked you about stereotypes, what misconceptions are Pagans most aware of?)

-What effect have misconceptions had on potential new members of Paganism?

-What do Pagans do to try to counter these misconceptions and to get the truth of Pagan practices and beliefs out into the world or do most Pagans stay uninvolved in spreading the true practices and beliefs?

-How do Pagans feel about their portrayal in television, movies, and the media?

Thanks!

First off, thank you for being willing to dispel misconceptions.  

For me, I keep much of what I do quiet and do not broadcast my faith.  I wish more people would do this in general, not just pagans, but all faiths because unfortunately there is a lot of judgement passed and poor assumptions made by people that not only don't know, but refuse to educate themselves.

I have not personally been asked about if I worship the Devil by anyone, but I have heard plenty of statement along the lines of: aren't you worried about your soul?  Are you sure you're right?  I try to gauge the person I talk to and see how open minded they are on such things before I talk about things.  For example, I had a business trip I went on where I had to drive 7 hours in a car one way with a fellow coworker who was in a position of power at our company that was a Baptist minister that talked about Jesus and Christianity for 90% of the time.  I also had to spend the weekend with him and then another 7 hour drive back.  Not one time did I say I was pagan.  I kept it as "spiritual" and left it at that.  It was easy to talk to him though as I was raised Catholic and spent a lot of time in a Catholic school.

Popular misconceptions are saying Wicca is the same as being pagan and both are the same as witchcraft.  NO!  Wrong on all counts there.  

With New pagans, or pagans I have just met, it can be hard to know where they are at.  Sadly there is no shortage of kids and adults with poor judgment that just want to be spooky, or think they can make life like Harry Potter, Twilight, or any other number of movies.  Or they are so hard into New Age nonsense I wonder if they have any ability to think critically for themselves.  "The Secret" is a book that has SOME merit, but people take it too far and sometimes too literally and personally, that makes me nuts.  While it is important to mind how one thinks and what they project out there, it's not the by all end all thing, IMO.  No one can convince me a child that's born with AIDS, a heroine addict, and with an abusive mother did something to manifest that reality.   So for New Pagans, I try to see how they act and what their motivations seem to be and how grounded they are.  It's also been common for me to see pagans and psychics often linked together.  This is not always true as some can be Christian psychics as well. A lot of psychics are just amazing "cold readers" who can tune into a person psychologically and make them believe anything because that person wants so badly to believe.  But I will say, I have met some true psychics out there that have a genuine gift that I do believe to be authentic.

As for movies: I'll say: ugh!  This can be tricky.  Hollywood tends to pervert everything
 in order to make things sell.  Accuracy is not common, so I'm often very skeptical about how they portray paganism.  There are some good films out there, but more often than not, I'd rather they just leave it alone.  Even when they do get things right, it's not uncommon to see rightwing fundamentalists come out of the wood work and get all put out over something that is not Christian.  

Personally, when Christine O'Donnell tried running for office in Delaware and mentioned she dabbled it witchcraft, she got so many things wrong and managed to anger so many actual pagans that was a real low point.  She managed to paint many as complete nutjobs and Satanists and basically do the opposite of what your paper's goal is stated to be.  

Depending on where ones lives in the country, it may not even be safe to openly talk about pagan faiths.  For example when I lived in Florida near Alabama, I had a Born Again Pagan Bumper sticker.  I received a note left on my windshield wiper that said "May God have mercy on your soul" once.  Luckily I did not have any further incidents, but if you look at the instances of ignorant behavior in an area, such as homophobia, racism, sexism, and so on, it behooves one to be cautious about broadcasting something very alien to the norm.  The more "guns and Jesus" messages I see, the less likely I am to open up on this matter in public.  

One other thing I do see, is any male wiccan being considered to be automatically homosexual as well.  I see one's sexual preference as completely irrelevant to paganism.  I'm a straight male, but I have zero problem with how a person lives their lives with how they select a mate and choose to live.    

Hope this help, feel free to PM me if you want me to elaborate on anything or have follow up questions.  You may quote anything as you see fit.

[Fagan_the_Pagan]

I get asked a lot if I fly on a broom or if I dance naked under the moon.

 
To be honest though, some of us DO.  My closest friends will attest that I would be happy to dance naked under the moon.  Although that's not that likely this time of year.  A bit cold for being naked outside and at night.  I might do it if there were a sizable bonfire nearby though.

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-What misconceptions have friends, coworkers, or even family asked about Paganism? For example, has anyone asked you if you worship the devil or some other untrue practice? (If no one has asked you about stereotypes, what misconceptions are Pagans most aware of?)

-What effect have misconceptions had on potential new members of Paganism?

-What do Pagans do to try to counter these misconceptions and to get the truth of Pagan practices and beliefs out into the world or do most Pagans stay uninvolved in spreading the true practices and beliefs?

-How do Pagans feel about their portrayal in television, movies, and the media?

I actually don't get confronted about stereotypes or misconceptions very often.  The only times I get Devil-Worshipper comments are when I wear my Pentacle bracers.

Once someone told me they couldn't respect paganism because it wasn't controlling enough.  I think they demanded that a religion have commandments or something.  

As to "potential new members," I couldn't really say.  People who are being kept away by misconceptions are, well, kept away.  They don't come to me, so I don't get to talk to them about it.

Like many pagans, I think, I find almost all media portrayals of pagans to be inaccurate, and some offensive.  I think that there are many who are much touchier about these things than I am.  For instance, many pagans hate the movie The Craft, saying it portrays witches and pagans as evil but I do not see this to be the case when I watch the movie.  I see a movie where there is a "Good Witch," a "Bad Witch" and two who get caught up in it all.  It at least addressed actual ideas of Wicca, such as the Threefold Law, and shows the consequences of misusing magic.

[Fagan_the_Pagan]

For me, I keep much of what I do quiet and do not broadcast my faith.  I wish more people would do this in general, not just pagans, but all faiths because unfortunately there is a lot of judgement passed and poor assumptions made by people that not only don't know, but refuse to educate themselves.

 
In public this is generally how I handle myself too.  If I am asked about my religion I will tell people, and I will go into as much detail as they want (perhaps more, if they get me going on it), but unless asked, I rarely go into it.  To do otherwise just seems like asking for trouble.  I'm not in this to be controversial.  I don't need to attract the attention of every evangelist or religious nut, and I don't need to drive away people who I would otherwise get along with.

[Jenett]

Unfortunately, I have had the experience of sending my work only to have it plagiarized. I never thought that people actually did that in real life, just movies! While it would be unlikely for a plagiarism to be caught here, thereby not risking my grades, and I do not believe anyone here would do that, I cannot fairly say yes to some and no to others. I will respect your requests by not quoting/paraphrasing you in my paper, but thank you for taking the time to answer my questions!

 
The thing is - what you're doing with that is illustrating a misconception about the purpose of scholarly work.

I understand it's hard to let your work go out into the world, and I understand the concerns of plagiarism accusations. (I'm a librarian at a small college library: educating students, faculty, and various other people about these issues is part of my job.)

But if you ask people to give you their time and thoughts, and then are unwilling to share the results, you're breaking the scholarly process. Which is not really the thing you're supposed to be doing.

I certainly understand people's concerns about sharing a paper before it's been graded (when a plagiarism accusation might be more of an issue), or about posting it publically (ditto). But in either case, having clear notes and records of where you found your material (and, of course, citing it appropriately) is an excellent defense should anyone raise concerns. (I've done a lot of work teaching people who've had issues with this, and have various friends in academic teaching roles who sit on academic honesty boards who look at these kinds of issues all the time.)

So, why share? Research in an academic context is about adding to the community understanding of a topic. When I ask to see the end result in a case like this, it's because *I* learn from it: something that's important to me, as an teacher, presenter, and general educator because it helps me understand more about different ways people present a given subject.

When people have shared papers in the past (again, privately, and usually after they've gotten the graded paper back), it's helped me refine how I explain things, structure a conversation better, or rearrange the order in which I approach a topic with someone new to Paganism - all things that help other people learn and understand more. And sometimes people have found sources I didn't know about (both good and bad), that I can then dig into more deeply in my own work. That's wonderful - and that's the way academic interactions are supposed to work.

I'd encourage you to go talk to either your professor or the librarians at your campus about how research - even research not aimed at formal publication - can contribute to the communities you're asking to help you, and how to do that in a way that respects your work, but also the time, energy, and growth of the people whose time, experience, and thought you've asked for.