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Author Topic: Is 'cultural appropriation' selective?  (Read 16855 times)

stephyjh

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Re: Is 'cultural appropriation' selective?
« Reply #135 on: August 09, 2014, 01:50:40 pm »
Quote from: Atehequa;155246
We as indigenous people have to reflect upon our own acts of cultural appropriation. A good example are the pre-Colombian Cherokee. They along with the Cheroenhaka and Tuscarora broke off from the main 'Iroquoian' drift and adopted many cultural traits from southeastern people such as the Muskogee and eastern Siouan peoples like the Catawba and Occaneechi. The same holds true with my people who adopted much from the Cherokee and Muskogee people during our time in Tennessee and what is now called western Georgia/South Carolina.


 
I feel like that's a valid point. I know there's a lot of overlap and a lot of borrowing that has taken place between Catawba and Cherokee, even with the two nations traditionally being enemies. On the other hand, the power difference between the two has never been as great as the current and past power gap between white people and either nation, and I think that the context of oppression makes a significant difference in whether the appropriation is a cultural exchange or an act of further oppression and exploitation.
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That what is no sense must be nonsense.

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Atehequa

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Re: Is 'cultural appropriation' selective?
« Reply #136 on: August 10, 2014, 09:01:37 am »
Quote from: stephyjh;155253
I feel like that's a valid point. I know there's a lot of overlap and a lot of borrowing that has taken place between Catawba and Cherokee, even with the two nations traditionally being enemies. On the other hand, the power difference between the two has never been as great as the current and past power gap between white people and either nation, and I think that the context of oppression makes a significant difference in whether the appropriation is a cultural exchange or an act of further oppression and exploitation.


The Cherokee were bitter enemies with the Catawba and that's why they invited us to live in Tennessee as a buffer or mercenaries so to speak. Once the Catawba were no longer a big threat, the Cherokee allied themselves with another traditional enemy the Chickasaw(both British allies) and drove us out of the Cumberland Valley in 1715 as we were not British allies. Back living in northern Kentucky and southern Ohio we remained bitter enemies of the Cherokee for a half a century. Although the Cherokee at times fought the British, especially during Britain's long conflict with France here on this continent, they began adopting British colonial ways due largely to the many Anglo, Scottish and Irish agents/traders living as well as marrying into the Cherokee nation. During the American Revolution we also allied ourselves with Britain, but after the colonials won, we found ourselves at war with the Americans while the Cherokee, especially their leaders were assimilating into an Antebellum-like lifestyle. Although during the Jackson administration they were successfully emulating southern Antebellum society, they were soon to be removed from their ancient homelands, even though they assisted 'Old Dickory' against the Red Stick Muskogee during the War of 1812. Ha! I know Cherokee from Qualla who either refuse to carry 20 dollar bills or else always place them face down upon the counter when paying for goods.

But enough of betrayal and history as I find it sad that the Cherokee have probably suffered the indignity of  cultural appropriation far worse than any of the eastern woodland tribes.

When regarding the indigenous people and cultural appropriation, I'm wondering if it's more of a case of some white people utilizing native spirituality and trappings as pretty props so as to make sales or to attain more customers/converts?
Muckhswe kee sishet tepe?

carillion

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Re: Is 'cultural appropriation' selective?
« Reply #137 on: August 18, 2014, 10:44:39 pm »
Quote from: Atehequa;155296


When regarding the indigenous people and cultural appropriation, I'm wondering if it's more of a case of some white people utilizing native spirituality and trappings as pretty props so as to make sales or to attain more customers/converts?


Pretty much, I'd say. Anybody who tried to appropriate the whole of a particular culture would be busted pretty quickly if they didn't have access. The most I've seen is people acquiring bits and pieces of various tribes adornments, a few choice quotes and maybe some of the language (if the language still exists). The worst I've seen is from pagan First Nations wannabes. Some of the stories they do tell! Makes me laugh.Of course the ones that 'acquire' certain rituals and ceremonies ( usually in an ill-understood and half-assed way) then try to open some kind of 'healing retreat and resort spa' , well. But what the hell, casinos aren't exactly high up there in the histories either. Sauce for the goose and all that.
And some things just converge. For example, Jade is mined in B.C. where I live. Much of it is shipped to China because it's of high quality and figures importantly in Chinese culture. There is a huge Chinese population here now and even though just about every elderly Chinese lady is sporting some jade,it doesn't mean the people who grew up in B.C. and also have a lot of jade are trying some sneaky appropriation.

Though when I went out a few months ago, the jade stores were mainly rocking jade pendents of a Maori design.

Can't win these days.

Louisvillian

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Re: Is 'cultural appropriation' selective?
« Reply #138 on: August 21, 2014, 10:21:10 pm »
Quote from: stephyjh;155213
So let's say I'm swinging my arms carelessly, as hard as I can, just to exercise them. I hit you in the face. I tell you that no injury is, was, or is ever intended by my arm-swinging, and that you should get over it. Does your bruising just magically disappear?

I didn't think so.
You're comparing debate and discussion, and the words of an absolute stranger, to physical injury. That's the very definition of being over-sensitive.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2014, 10:21:45 pm by Louisvillian »

Jack

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Re: Is 'cultural appropriation' selective?
« Reply #139 on: August 21, 2014, 10:36:58 pm »
Quote from: Louisvillian;156896
You're comparing debate and discussion, and the words of an absolute stranger, to physical injury. That's the very definition of being over-sensitive.

 
I'm pretty sure that's the definition of a metaphor.
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Pain and Light

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Re: Is 'cultural appropriation' selective?
« Reply #140 on: September 12, 2014, 06:48:41 pm »
Quote from: Jack;154454
In a world with Macklemore in it, I find I disagree.

(Note how Macklemore is a straight white man who got a lot of press and praise for rapping about "same love" while artists of color like Frank Ocean, who have been writing and performing music about their own queer life experiences, are still largely ignored by the white mainstream despite having won more than one Grammy award.)

 

A little late in the game, and I apologize if it's already been said (if it has, I did not see it), but on the Macklemore note, I find it especially irksome that not only is he getting a lot of attention for being a straight white dude giving his okay for the "same love" of gay couples (and note, he ONLY mentions GAY couples), he spends at least an equal part of the song talking about how he thought he was gay when he was a kid, how straight he is and how he couldn't change even if he wanted to.

And the line "If I was gay, I would think hip-hop hates me"

Ironic. And not in the Alanis Morisette sense of the word.

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