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Author Topic: Jewish Magic? What happened here  (Read 2888 times)

Hippie-Witch

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Jewish Magic? What happened here
« on: March 09, 2016, 09:25:59 pm »
Jewish magic is NOT something I know ANYTHING about, however I feel I should given my circumstance. In October I left my phone on the kitchen table and went to the bathroom, when I came I back I saw "download complete". I found this to be rather strange ,seeing as I was not downloading anything

I checked what it was. "The complete edition of the 6th and 7th books of Moses' magical spirit-art, known as the wonderful arts of the old wise Hebrews, taken from the Mosaic books of the cabala and the talmud, for the good of mankind"(a long title, I know. I just wanted to include all of it incase it helps anyone who knows anything about this) downloaded itself onto my phone. I figured out what website it came from (http://www.sacred-magick.com) and I can honestly say that I've never even been on the website.

Something tried to communicate with me that night and I got spooked and left it for months. I feel stronger now, more ready. I want to know what this is and how to use it for what it was meant for. If something greater than I is trying to work through me I want to allow and listen, but I don't know where to start
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DIASPORA-1963

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Re: Jewish Magic? What happened here...
« Reply #1 on: March 10, 2016, 03:58:13 am »
Quote from: Hippie-Witch;187833
Jewish magic is NOT something I know ANYTHING about, however I feel I should given my circumstance. In October I left my phone on the kitchen table and went to the bathroom, when I came I back I saw "download complete". I found this to be rather strange ,seeing as I was not downloading anything

I checked what it was. "The complete edition of the 6th and 7th books of Moses' magical spirit-art, known as the wonderful arts of the old wise Hebrews, taken from the Mosaic books of the cabala and the talmud, for the good of mankind"(a long title, I know. I just wanted to include all of it incase it helps anyone who knows anything about this) downloaded itself onto my phone. I figured out what website it came from (http://www.sacred-magick.com) and I can honestly say that I've never even been on the website.

Something tried to communicate with me that night and I got spooked and left it for months. I feel stronger now, more ready. I want to know what this is and how to use it for what it was meant for. If something greater than I is trying to work through me I want to allow and listen, but I don't know where to start

 
Before you get all creeped out, what web sites had you been visiting? Do you know anyone who might have sent it to you? Do you know anyone who could be playing a joke on you? What new software might it have been bundled with? Are you Jewish? Do you have Jewish friends? ... Jews in general shun magic. There are mystic Jews - but, again - they have a hard time among Jews. "People of the Book" is one of the epithets  that Jews have had, & it is true of them: they adhere to the rules of their faith very closely - no magic! You pray. You have faith. God works miracles. God does things in His own time. You wait for God to act. Whatever God does is right & good.
MARK aka CELLVLANVS MAGVS
OMNIA DEPENDET!

RecycledBenedict

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Re: Jewish Magic? What happened here...
« Reply #2 on: March 10, 2016, 05:58:07 am »
Quote from: Hippie-Witch;187833
Jewish magic is NOT something I know ANYTHING about, however I feel I should given my circumstance. In October I left my phone on the kitchen table and went to the bathroom, when I came I back I saw "download complete". I found this to be rather strange ,seeing as I was not downloading anything

I checked what it was. "The complete edition of the 6th and 7th books of Moses' magical spirit-art, known as the wonderful arts of the old wise Hebrews, taken from the Mosaic books of the cabala and the talmud, for the good of mankind"(a long title, I know. I just wanted to include all of it incase it helps anyone who knows anything about this) downloaded itself onto my phone. I figured out what website it came from (http://www.sacred-magick.com) and I can honestly say that I've never even been on the website.

Something tried to communicate with me that night and I got spooked and left it for months. I feel stronger now, more ready. I want to know what this is and how to use it for what it was meant for. If something greater than I is trying to work through me I want to allow and listen, but I don't know where to start


I don't understand how computers and smartphones work. I am just happy when they do, so I can't explain the download.

I know a few thing about the history of magic. The so called 'Sixth and Seventh Books of Moses' contain very bad Hebrew. Kabbalah scholar Gershom Scholem made the conclusion that the book isn't Jewish, but a Christian attempt to seem Jewish.

Actual Jewish magical books do exist, however. One of the oldest is Sepher ha-Razim, from late antiquity. The so called Sword of Moses is probably from the early Middle Ages, and Sepher Raziel ha-Malak is hard to date, but printed in 1701 (It shall not be confused with a Christian Sepher Raziel also known as Liber Salomonis - the title has been used about several different works).

Jacobus Swart, who has written both about non-Jewish Neo-Hermetic Kabbalah and Jewish Kabbalah, has written two collection of traditional Jewish magic: The Book of Sacred Names and The Book of Seals and Amulets.

Hippie-Witch

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Re: Jewish Magic? What happened here...
« Reply #3 on: March 10, 2016, 11:20:57 am »
Quote from: DIASPORA-1963;187843
Before you get all creeped out, what web sites had you been visiting? Do you know anyone who might have sent it to you? Do you know anyone who could be playing a joke on you? What new software might it have been bundled with? Are you Jewish? Do you have Jewish friends? ... Jews in general shun magic. There are mystic Jews - but, again - they have a hard time among Jews. "People of the Book" is one of the epithets  that Jews have had, & it is true of them: they adhere to the rules of their faith very closely - no magic! You pray. You have faith. God works miracles. God does things in His own time. You wait for God to act. Whatever God does is right & good.

I don't even have any friends who would know how to make something automatically download on someone else's phone

That makes a lot of sense! That's what I thought the Jewish faith was like so when I got the download on my phone I was confused.

Thanks :)
"There's a lot of beauty in ordinary things. Isn't that kind of the point?"

Hippie-Witch

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Re: Jewish Magic? What happened here...
« Reply #4 on: March 10, 2016, 11:24:24 am »
Quote from: FraterBenedict;187848
I don't understand how computers and smartphones work. I am just happy when they do, so I can't explain the download.

I know a few thing about the history of magic. The so called 'Sixth and Seventh Books of Moses' contain very bad Hebrew. Kabbalah scholar Gershom Scholem made the conclusion that the book isn't Jewish, but a Christian attempt to seem Jewish.

Actual Jewish magical books do exist, however. One of the oldest is Sepher ha-Razim, from late antiquity. The so called Sword of Moses is probably from the early Middle Ages, and Sepher Raziel ha-Malak is hard to date, but printed in 1701 (It shall not be confused with a Christian Sepher Raziel also known as Liber Salomonis - the title has been used about several different works).

Jacobus Swart, who has written both about non-Jewish Neo-Hermetic Kabbalah and Jewish Kabbalah, has written two collection of traditional Jewish magic: The Book of Sacred Names and The Book of Seals and Amulets.

 
Thank you so much! I'll look into those :)

It was extremely confusing to read :(
Even though it was translated into English I felt like it either made no sense or was just going right over my head. I don't know why a Christian would write something in an attempt to seem Jewish, but knowing the works are fraudulent is very helpful. I'll stop trying to make sense of the 6th and 7th book and start looking at the ones you've suggested. :)
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Wimsaur

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Re: Jewish Magic? What happened here...
« Reply #5 on: March 10, 2016, 12:02:17 pm »
Quote from: Hippie-Witch;187858
I don't even have any friends who would know how to make something automatically download on someone else's phone

That makes a lot of sense! That's what I thought the Jewish faith was like so when I got the download on my phone I was confused.

Thanks :)
Also, Sefer Yetzirah is pivotal for understanding both Judaic and Hermetic Kabbalah.

-Wimsaur.
Quote from: FraterBenedict;187848
I don't understand how computers and smartphones work. I am just happy when they do, so I can't explain the download.

I know a few thing about the history of magic. The so called 'Sixth and Seventh Books of Moses' contain very bad Hebrew. Kabbalah scholar Gershom Scholem made the conclusion that the book isn't Jewish, but a Christian attempt to seem Jewish.

Actual Jewish magical books do exist, however. One of the oldest is Sepher ha-Razim, from late antiquity. The so called Sword of Moses is probably from the early Middle Ages, and Sepher Raziel ha-Malak is hard to date, but printed in 1701 (It shall not be confused with a Christian Sepher Raziel also known as Liber Salomonis - the title has been used about several different works).

Jacobus Swart, who has written both about non-Jewish Neo-Hermetic Kabbalah and Jewish Kabbalah, has written two collection of traditional Jewish magic: The Book of Sacred Names and The Book of Seals and Amulets.

Eastling

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Re: Jewish Magic? What happened here...
« Reply #6 on: March 10, 2016, 08:02:22 pm »
Quote from: DIASPORA-1963;187843
"People of the Book" is one of the epithets  that Jews have had, & it is true of them: they adhere to the rules of their faith very closely - no magic! You pray. You have faith. God works miracles. God does things in His own time. You wait for God to act. Whatever God does is right & good.

 
"People of the Book" as an epithet is not really meant to indicate that Jews follow religious rules strictly (although many Jews, especially Orthodox, do follow the halakha very closely). It's more a way of advertising that Judaism is deeply dedicated to education and study.

That said, I'm more surprised by a characterization of Jewish people in general as submissively faithful to God and inclined to wait on Him for action. Judaism strongly encourages questioning God even as you follow His rules--the patriarchs of the Torah may have gone to extreme lengths to obey God, but they were just as likely to argue with him as well. Abraham is a good example of this--sure, he nearly sacrificed his son because he thought God wanted him to, but he also tried his damnedest to convince God to spare Sodom and Gomorrah, which meant rather aggressively making requests of Him to keep looking for virtuous people in the corrupt cities that would make them worth sparing. Some would call that uppity.

Modern Judaism, even among the Orthodox, is definitely not inclined to patiently sit and wait for God to accomplish things: it's a staple of the religion that it is our duty as God's people to help Him in His work, rather than assume He'll do it for us. There are a number of Jewish folktales about how the Messiah will only come and usher in an era of prosperity when humanity has proven we're ready for it via charitable and hospitable actions.

Sorry that this is a bit of a digression from the OP's subject. There is definitely Jewish mysticism and magic, but other commenters are right in pointing out that a lot of what's sold as "Jewish mysticism and magic" is actually written by Christians. It's the same drive as any form of appropriation: Jewish works are seen as more exotic and therefore potentially more effective for Christians to meddle with. Of course, there's nothing wrong with studying Jewish mysticism, but if you're interested, do your research!
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DIASPORA-1963

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Re: Jewish Magic? What happened here...
« Reply #7 on: March 10, 2016, 08:28:47 pm »
Quote from: Eastling;187875
"People of the Book" as an epithet is not really meant to indicate that Jews follow religious rules strictly (although many Jews, especially Orthodox, do follow the halakha very closely). It's more a way of advertising that Judaism is deeply dedicated to education and study.

That said, I'm more surprised by a characterization of Jewish people in general as submissively faithful to God and inclined to wait on Him for action. Judaism strongly encourages questioning God even as you follow His rules--the patriarchs of the Torah may have gone to extreme lengths to obey God, but they were just as likely to argue with him as well. Abraham is a good example of this--sure, he nearly sacrificed his son because he thought God wanted him to, but he also tried his damnedest to convince God to spare Sodom and Gomorrah, which meant rather aggressively making requests of Him to keep looking for virtuous people in the corrupt cities that would make them worth sparing. Some would call that uppity.

Modern Judaism, even among the Orthodox, is definitely not inclined to patiently sit and wait for God to accomplish things: it's a staple of the religion that it is our duty as God's people to help Him in His work, rather than assume He'll do it for us. There are a number of Jewish folktales about how the Messiah will only come and usher in an era of prosperity when humanity has proven we're ready for it via charitable and hospitable actions.

Sorry that this is a bit of a digression from the OP's subject. There is definitely Jewish mysticism and magic, but other commenters are right in pointing out that a lot of what's sold as "Jewish mysticism and magic" is actually written by Christians. It's the same drive as any form of appropriation: Jewish works are seen as more exotic and therefore potentially more effective for Christians to meddle with. Of course, there's nothing wrong with studying Jewish mysticism, but if you're interested, do your research!

I think that it becomes difficult to characterize Jews as a whole b/c they are so diverse. I am not Jewish, yet I did grow up in a Jewish neighborhood. My neighbors were the children and grandchildren of Holocaust survivors and mostly German Jews who had been Reformed Jews in Prewar Germany - very well educated, highly cultured people, but always, always a bit sorrowful (as is understandable) and with a sense of humor that ran to the absurd (many had Kafka by heart). Warm, welcoming, loving, gentle, generous people, but always expecting the worst. Maybe all Jews are not like that. I developed a taste for kosher delicacies at their tables (some kept kosher all the time; most only at the holidays), and I picked up Yiddish.
MARK aka CELLVLANVS MAGVS
OMNIA DEPENDET!

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Re: Jewish Magic? What happened here...
« Reply #8 on: March 10, 2016, 10:18:03 pm »
Quote from: Eastling;187875
Modern Judaism, even among the Orthodox, is definitely not inclined to patiently sit and wait for God to accomplish things: it's a staple of the religion that it is our duty as God's people to help Him in His work, rather than assume He'll do it for us.

 
As seen on tumblr recently:

If someone comes to you and asks your help, you shall not turn him off with pious words, saying, “Have faith and take your troubles to God!” You shall act as if there were no God, as if there were only one person in all the world who could help this man–only yourself.

—Rabbi Moshe Leib of Sassov

Someone added a comment to it to the effect of "you wouldn't expect to hear a rabbi say this!" which mostly made me want to reply, "Spoken like someone who's never met one."
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RecycledBenedict

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Re: Jewish Magic? What happened here...
« Reply #9 on: March 11, 2016, 09:22:36 am »
Quote from: Hippie-Witch;187859
I don't know why a Christian would write something in an attempt to seem Jewish,


Two thirds or more of the Christian Bible contain the Hebrew Bible. It is not that much of a surprise, that Christians (and even Christian magicians) of the Renaissance held so-called 'Old Testament' characters in high regard. There are also some other cultural aspects of the time to consider:

1. Ceremonial magic entered western Europe by translating Moslem and Jewish magical treatises written in Arabic, Aramaic or Hebrew into Latin. The Iberian peninsula was the most conducive environment for this translation-process. Especially the royal court of Alfonso X of Castile (1252-1284) was important in this regard.

2. The knowledge of Latin was of course alive during the entire time between the fall of Rome in 476 CE and the mid-18th century, but the knowledge of the other classical languages - Greek and Hebrew (plus Aramaic and Arabic) - fluctuated considerably. By the 15th century, primarily in the Italian peninsula, but increasingly so north of the Alps, too, the interest in Greek and Hebrew increased. Among other things, it led to the translation of the Christian Bible into the vernaculars during the 16th century, but it also influenced the way Christians viewed magic: It was expected, that books about magic should contain 'holy words' in the sacred languages of Hebrew and Greek. This wasn't entirely new for the 15th century. Liber Iuratus Honorii, probably from the 14th century, did also contain such 'holy words'.

Quote from: Hippie-Witch;187859
... but knowing the works are fraudulent is very helpful. I'll stop trying to make sense of the 6th and 7th book and start looking at the ones you've suggested. :)


It is not fraudulent in the sense we use that word today. We have to take the cultural patterns of other times in consideration.

Conventionally, we use to call the author of The Iliad and The Odyssey 'Homer', but there has been a discussion for centuries if these epics are the gradual works of redactors or the works of a single author. When we say 'Homer', we do not really refer to one particular historical person, but to 'the person or persons who wrote, gathered, added and redacted The Iliad and The Odyssey.

Likewise, we speek, out of convention, about the Daoist classic Daodejing as it was written by an old Chinese sage called Laozi. We now know, that Daodejing was written, collected, added to and redacted in a rather long writing process. Laozi is now  just shorthand for 'the group of persons, whomever they were, who redacted the Daodejing.

Likewise, the biblical scriptures of Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus and Numeri seem to be the work of a series of authors, collectors and redactors, who finished their work in the late 6th century BCE or during the 5th century. When some people use to call them 'First to Fourth Books of Moses', it is just a convention. They were certainly not written by a historical Moses (if such a person did exist), but it is a convention to call them 'Books of Moses', because Moses is the primary character in three of them - and in Deutoronomy, which probably has another origin.

There were several scriptures written by Jews and Christians in the centuries shortly before and after (only after in the case of Christians, of course) the Common Era, in which the message was put in the mouth of Biblical characters like Enoch, Moses, Baruch or Ezra/Esdras. If you are curious about them, you will find many of them edited by James H. Charlesworth in the 1980s.

Old books about magic - sometimes known as grimoires - very often follow this pattern of using a historical or mythical character as a pseudonym. That is the case with the Sixth and Seventh books of Moses, but also with several books under the names of King Solomon or St. Cyprian, respectively. And these are not the only examples out there. The content of a grimoire must be judged from if anyone finds the content useful, not from the choice of pseudonym by the author(s).

One old book of Jewish magic, Shimmush Tehillin, treat the subject matter of using the Psalms in the Hebrew Bible for magical purposes. The so-called Sixth and Seventh Books of Moses often have an addition in the end, containing an adaptation and translation of Shimmush Tehillin, edited by Gottfried Selig, so even with your narrower definition of authenticity, there is some very Jewish magic in the 6th&7th.

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Re: Jewish Magic? What happened here...
« Reply #10 on: March 11, 2016, 11:19:25 am »
Quote from: Hippie-Witch;187859
I don't know why a Christian would write something in an attempt to seem Jewish, but knowing the works are fraudulent is very helpful. I'll stop trying to make sense of the 6th and 7th book and start looking at the ones you've suggested. :)

 
Besides the reasons that Frater Benedict just outlined (thank you!), there's another reason: there's a long and distressing history of people writing texts (and making art, and all sorts of other things) that pretend to be from one group (and often a group that is distrusted in society) to make them look bad, or to use to misrepresent their beliefs (because others can then point at it and say "Look, this text that claims it is Jewish says X!") or otherwise cause problems.

It happens in a wide range of cases, but there are an awful lot of times (especially between about the medieval period and after World War II) when Judaism is a prime target, and it's good to be careful at what materials you look at and where they came from, and what people who are within that community have to say about it. Some of the disparagement and ways texts are used against a community can be pretty subtle, and if you don't know the details, very hard to spot.
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Wimsaur

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Re: Jewish Magic? What happened here...
« Reply #11 on: March 11, 2016, 12:31:02 pm »
Quote from: Hippie-Witch;187833
Jewish magic is NOT something I know ANYTHING about, however I feel I should given my circumstance. In October I left my phone on the kitchen table and went to the bathroom, when I came I back I saw "download complete". I found this to be rather strange ,seeing as I was not downloading anything

I checked what it was. "The complete edition of the 6th and 7th books of Moses' magical spirit-art, known as the wonderful arts of the old wise Hebrews, taken from the Mosaic books of the cabala and the talmud, for the good of mankind"(a long title, I know. I just wanted to include all of it incase it helps anyone who knows anything about this) downloaded itself onto my phone. I figured out what website it came from (http://www.sacred-magick.com) and I can honestly say that I've never even been on the website.

Something tried to communicate with me that night and I got spooked and left it for months. I feel stronger now, more ready. I want to know what this is and how to use it for what it was meant for. If something greater than I is trying to work through me I want to allow and listen, but I don't know where to start
It seems to me (as someone who comes from a pure Jewish family) that Jews have a vastly different perspective to that of a Christian.

Jews, unlike Christians, do not visually personify God. God has no face and no body (other than the entire universe).
This affects our entire outlook on life. The reason God is so scary in Tanak (which Christians call the old testament) is because he/she/it can not be identified with other than which name is cited per biblical passage.
When Christianity took our holy books, they omitted the different names of God (some masculine, some feminine, some singular, some plural), and replaced them with Lord.
The true meaning of the names of God were taught only to priests who first had to learn the symbolic language of Kabbalah to understand the subtle complexities of them.
Thus, the names are as masks that each refer to different aspects and personalities of the 1 God.
It is equally understood that these personalities are not God but the character of God's actions.

At no point is a Jew to visualize God because to do so is to limit God. God is unlimited and unknowable and to impose a face/limitation upon it is considered idol worship.

-Wimsaur.

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Re: Jewish Magic? What happened here...
« Reply #12 on: March 11, 2016, 12:40:24 pm »
Quote from: Wimsaur;187899
When Christianity took our holy books, they omitted the different names of God (some masculine, some feminine, some singular, some plural), and replaced them with Lord.


In some cases, yes. In other cases, several Hebrew names were represented by the one word 'God'.

Hebrew divine names translated into 'Lord': YHWH, Yah, Adonai

Hebrew divine names translated into 'God': El, Elohim, Eloah, Elim

RecycledBenedict

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Re: Jewish Magic? What happened here...
« Reply #13 on: March 11, 2016, 02:16:27 pm »
Quote from: DIASPORA-1963;187843
... Jews in general shun magic. There are mystic Jews - but, again - they have a hard time among Jews. "People of the Book" is one of the epithets  that Jews have had, & it is true of them: they adhere to the rules of their faith very closely - no magic! You pray. You have faith. God works miracles.


In general? I dunno. Ultra-Orthodox Jews gladly write talismans covered with divine names and angelic names. Even if they don't call it 'magic', it looks magical to everyone else.

And have I mentioned that the (in)famous Lesser Banishing Ritual of the Pentagram used by inheritors of Golden Dawn magic, is, in part, based on a mainstream Jewish prayer at bedtime?

Quote
To my right Michael and to my left Gabriel, in front of me Uriel and behind me Raphael, and over my head God's Shekhinah.

Wimsaur

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Re: Jewish Magic? What happened here...
« Reply #14 on: March 11, 2016, 02:29:02 pm »
Quote from: DIASPORA-1963;187843
Jews in general shun magic. There are mystic Jews - but, again - they have a hard time among Jews. "People of the Book" is one of the epithets  that Jews have had, & it is true of them: they adhere to the rules of their faith very closely - no magic! You pray.

This is entirely inaccurate of any of the hundreds of Jews (including myself and family) that I have met or conversed with.

Look up the story of Joseph who used divination for Pharaoh.
Look this up in Tanakh not a Christian version.

Christianized bibles conveniently change most of the references to divination or Magick (see Aaron) to better enslave and control people.

Further, Jews are taught from day one of Life to question teachers and authority. Rabbi means teacher. There are no spiritual authorities in Judaism. This trait was written out for Christians whose lords, kings, and clergy, successfully controlled for over 1000 years.

Don't forget that Christianity was first codefied into a state religion by a Roman emperor who sought to cement his power.

-Wimsaur.

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* In Memoriam

Chavi (2006)
Elspeth (2010)
Marilyn (2013)

* Cauldron Staff

Host:
Sunflower

Message Board Staff
Board Coordinator:
Darkhawk

Assistant Board Coordinator:
Aster Breo

Senior Staff:
Aisling, Jenett, Sefiru

Staff:
Allaya, Chatelaine, EclecticWheel, HarpingHawke, Kylara, PerditaPickle, rocquelaire

Discord Chat Staff
Chat Coordinator:
Morag

Cauldron Council:
Bob, Catja, Emma-Eldritch, Fausta, Jubes, Kelly, LyricFox, Phouka, Sperran, Star, Steve, Tana

Site Administrator:
Randall