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Author Topic: Privilege: The Other "P" Word  (Read 2220 times)

Sage

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Privilege: The Other "P" Word
« on: January 15, 2013, 11:46:30 am »
Teo Bishop just made a post on Bishop in the Grove about addressing privilege in online Pagan discussions (especially those centered around the more recently flare ups over Pagan identity and definition). I know we have a lot of social justice folks on this board who might be interested in the developing conversation, so I thought I'd draw your attention to the blog post. He asks these questions at the end of his post:

Quote
If we are all privileged in some way or other (and, if you’re reading this post on a computer screen — one that you own — you are probably more privileged than some), than what do we do with that information?

What do we do when we recognize a certain privilege in ourselves or others? How do we avoid silencing one another, or feeling silenced ourselves?
Maker, though the darkness comes upon me,
I shall embrace the light. I shall weather the storm.
I shall endure.
What you have created, no one can tear asunder.

-Canticle of Trials 1:10

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Jack

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Re: Privilege: The Other "P" Word
« Reply #1 on: January 15, 2013, 11:56:57 am »
Quote from: Sage;91306
Teo Bishop just made a post on Bishop in the Grove about addressing privilege in online Pagan discussions...

 
I got as far as "Is the act of calling a person on their privilege itself an act of privilege, I wonder?" and I just... am not sure what to do with that.
Hail Mara, Lady of Good Things!
"The only way to cope with something deadly serious is to try to treat it a little lightly." -Madeleine L'Engle

stephyjh

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Privilege: The Other "P" Word
« Reply #2 on: January 15, 2013, 12:07:26 pm »
Quote from: Sage;91306
Teo Bishop just made a post on Bishop in the Grove about addressing privilege in online Pagan discussions (especially those centered around the more recently flare ups over Pagan identity and definition). I know we have a lot of social justice folks on this board who might be interested in the developing conversation, so I thought I'd draw your attention to the blog post. He asks these questions at the end of his post:

My paganism will be intersectional or it will be bullshit.

That is all,
A heretic blast has been blown in the west,
That what is no sense must be nonsense.

-Robert Burns

LiminalAuggie

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Re: Privilege: The Other "P" Word
« Reply #3 on: January 15, 2013, 12:09:05 pm »
Quote from: Jack;91310
I got as far as "Is the act of calling a person on their privilege itself an act of privilege, I wonder?" and I just... am not sure what to do with that.

 
I think a lot, a lot of the time when we start bringing questions of privilege into larger community discussions that don't always keep track of social justice issues/terms...the discussion can very quickly become an argument over what this whole privilege mess means anyway, and the reason the issue of privilege got brought up in the first place can get lost in the mire.

I'm not sure if I see calling someone on their privilege as an act of privilege itself. I think perhaps it's more an act of perceived moral superiority that is sometimes meant with the best of intentions and sometimes just used as a weapon to shut someone down.

Now, whether or not that calling-out is received well will often depend on whether the person doing it is exercising their own privilege. An ally calling out privilege  on behalf of a minority is going to be listened to more easily than a person in that minority, which sucks out loud but I don't see that changing any time in the near future.

LiminalAuggie

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Re: Privilege: The Other "P" Word
« Reply #4 on: January 15, 2013, 12:10:05 pm »
Quote from: stephyjh;91311
My paganism will be intersectional or it will be bullshit.

That is all,

 
Also this, absolutely.

Sophia C

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Re: Privilege: The Other "P" Word
« Reply #5 on: January 15, 2013, 12:21:57 pm »
Quote from: stephyjh;91311
My paganism will be intersectional or it will be bullshit.

That is all,

 
Love this, and I concur.

Some of the responses at Teo's blog are already making me sad. Not sure I want to read them when more people have seen it.
"We're all stories, in the end. Make it a good one, eh?"
- Doctor Who

Maps

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Re: Privilege: The Other "P" Word
« Reply #6 on: January 15, 2013, 01:11:09 pm »
Quote from: Sage;91306
Teo Bishop just made a post on Bishop in the Grove about addressing privilege in online Pagan discussions (especially those centered around the more recently flare ups over Pagan identity and definition). I know we have a lot of social justice folks on this board who might be interested in the developing conversation, so I thought I'd draw your attention to the blog post. He asks these questions at the end of his post:

 
Yeah that post was in direct response to a series of comments I posted on his previous entry, just short of quoting my exact words.

Ultimately, he's a rather harmless blogger, but he's got a big audience. I'm glad to see that he might be coming around, even if his readership isn't ready to take a hard look in the mirror themselves.

Sage

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Re: Privilege: The Other "P" Word
« Reply #7 on: January 15, 2013, 01:29:39 pm »
Quote from: Sophia Catherine;91317
Love this, and I concur.

Some of the responses at Teo's blog are already making me sad. Not sure I want to read them when more people have seen it.

 
*cracks knuckles* Just responded to everyone. I am really in the zone today, if I can brag a little. I feel like I should be hitting my head against the wall but instead I'm gleefully going "ooh, a chance to EDUCATE." My spoons overfloweth.
Maker, though the darkness comes upon me,
I shall embrace the light. I shall weather the storm.
I shall endure.
What you have created, no one can tear asunder.

-Canticle of Trials 1:10

Sage and Starshine (my spiritual blog): last updated 2/25.
Friday Otherfaith Blogging: last updated 2/27
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Sage

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Re: Privilege: The Other "P" Word
« Reply #8 on: January 15, 2013, 01:32:15 pm »
Quote from: Maps;91334
Yeah that post was in direct response to a series of comments I posted on his previous entry, just short of quoting my exact words.


I really liked seeing the exchange you guys had yesterday. You're pretty boss. <3

Quote
Ultimately, he's a rather harmless blogger, but he's got a big audience. I'm glad to see that he might be coming around, even if his readership isn't ready to take a hard look in the mirror themselves.

 
Me too. The fact his blog is read by so many folks makes me excited to see this sort of thing discussed. (I keep in mind that not everyone who reads is going to reply, so ideas are going out there even if I can't see where they fall.)
Maker, though the darkness comes upon me,
I shall embrace the light. I shall weather the storm.
I shall endure.
What you have created, no one can tear asunder.

-Canticle of Trials 1:10

Sage and Starshine (my spiritual blog): last updated 2/25.
Friday Otherfaith Blogging: last updated 2/27
Join the Emboatening Crew over on Kiva! Emboatening the boatless since Opet 2013.

Sophia C

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Re: Privilege: The Other "P" Word
« Reply #9 on: January 15, 2013, 01:35:28 pm »
Quote from: Sage;91352
*cracks knuckles* Just responded to everyone. I am really in the zone today, if I can brag a little. I feel like I should be hitting my head against the wall but instead I'm gleefully going "ooh, a chance to EDUCATE." My spoons overfloweth.

 
Your responses are seriously impressive.
"We're all stories, in the end. Make it a good one, eh?"
- Doctor Who

Sage

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Re: Privilege: The Other "P" Word
« Reply #10 on: January 15, 2013, 01:38:31 pm »
Quote from: Sophia Catherine;91358
Your responses are seriously impressive.

 
Thank you. :) I feel like this is how I can do good in the world, and it feels like a pretty good way of honoring the Morrigan and Brighid. Sovereignty, justice, communication... I mean what else am I gonna do today, binge again on Reddit?
Maker, though the darkness comes upon me,
I shall embrace the light. I shall weather the storm.
I shall endure.
What you have created, no one can tear asunder.

-Canticle of Trials 1:10

Sage and Starshine (my spiritual blog): last updated 2/25.
Friday Otherfaith Blogging: last updated 2/27
Join the Emboatening Crew over on Kiva! Emboatening the boatless since Opet 2013.

Maps

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Re: Privilege: The Other "P" Word
« Reply #11 on: January 15, 2013, 01:42:03 pm »
Quote from: Sage;91352
*cracks knuckles* Just responded to everyone. I am really in the zone today, if I can brag a little. I feel like I should be hitting my head against the wall but instead I'm gleefully going "ooh, a chance to EDUCATE." My spoons overfloweth.

 
Thank god-- ever since that "big recon problem" thread my patience for pagandom has been wayyy low.

Sage

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Re: Privilege: The Other "P" Word
« Reply #12 on: January 15, 2013, 01:45:31 pm »
Quote from: Maps;91366
Thank god-- ever since that "big recon problem" thread my patience for pagandom has been wayyy low.

 
This stuff has to be a tag team effort. Burn out and stuff happens. <3
Maker, though the darkness comes upon me,
I shall embrace the light. I shall weather the storm.
I shall endure.
What you have created, no one can tear asunder.

-Canticle of Trials 1:10

Sage and Starshine (my spiritual blog): last updated 2/25.
Friday Otherfaith Blogging: last updated 2/27
Join the Emboatening Crew over on Kiva! Emboatening the boatless since Opet 2013.

Shine

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Re: Privilege: The Other "P" Word
« Reply #13 on: January 15, 2013, 01:45:50 pm »
Quote from: Maps;91366
Thank god-- ever since that "big recon problem" thread my patience for pagandom has been wayyy low.

 
You, too?

I'm kind of starting to withdraw from pagandom as a whole. The Cauldron is really the only place I hang out now.

On the topic of privilege, everyone's said pretty much every awesome thing I could possibly think of.
Leave your darkness with me, and I will make you shine.

Maps

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Re: Privilege: The Other "P" Word
« Reply #14 on: January 15, 2013, 01:51:24 pm »
Quote from: Sage;91369
This stuff has to be a tag team effort. Burn out and stuff happens. <3

 
It's not burnout, it's more "Wow, really? I thought you all were self-aware SJ-types that... rage against the shit you're doing right now. Buuut I guess it's OK when you do it. Gotcha."

Couple that with all the recent whinging about pagan solidarity and it's just this giant clusterfuck of people thinking they have the right to tell me how to do my religion and it's bullshit.

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