The Cauldron: A Pagan Forum

Druidry seems to be the common vote, so I'll definitely be looking into it. I had a thought, however. I've read different sites on Shamanism and I guess the area I was looking at had much to do with animal spirits/guides/messengers. That caught my attention for various reasons. However, when I looked it up on wiki, it seemed to have a very different definition for it? It seemed it was more of a medicine-man type spiritual healer kind of belief where it was thought that they would go into different realms/planes/worlds through spirit journeys and didn't say anything about animals (that I read). Are these the same thing and just two different aspects of it or are they two different sects/variants? As always- doing my own research, but word from anyone with first-hand experience would be greatly appreciated.

About druidry:  While it's probably worth you taking a look at the neo-druid organizations out there, you should be aware that the Celtic cultures the original druids were part of would not have met your requirements.  They were not what we would consider peaceful out non-violent.  (If you read any of the lore, you'll find much of it is based on invasions and cattle raids).  

Also, they almost definitely believed in and worshipped god/desses, although their worship was likely quite different from what we think of today (no "houses of worship" or statutes, f'ex, at least, not until the Romans came along).  I'm qualifying that sentence with the word "almost" because we know very little about ancient Celtic religion for sure, since the practitioners themselves didn't write anything down.

That said, the neo-druid organizations are not attempting to recreate ancient druidry, and the various organizations are more or less loosely based on the history that we know.  

Also, be aware that some neo-druidry groups are based much more on Romantic Era notions of druidry (much of which turned out to be historically incorrect, but remains spiritually resonant to many people) than on what we now know from archeological and anthropological study.  That works for some people and doesn't work for others.  Other groups take a more recon approach, while others are more of a blend.

About shamanism:  First, the word "shaman" and its variants is considered by many to be a deeply problematic word, because it actually refers specifically to the practices of a particular tribe (in Siberia, IIRC).  However, over the years, it has been appropriated to label an extremely loosely associated group of spiritual practices, usually involving trance, journeying, ecstatic practices. and things like that.  "Shamanism" is also applied by outsiders to the practices of tribes and groups that have their own, perfectly good words for their own practices, which is disrespectful and rude.  Something to be aware of while you research.  And a topic that had been discussed on TC at some length, including by members of groups whose practices are mis-lableded as "shamanism", if you want to learn more.

One of the problems (besides the cultural appropriation, which I do not want to under-emphasize) is that there is no consistent definition of "shamanism", although I think most people have a general sense of how the word is often used.  So, some people might include working with spirit animals, while others might not.  The actual practices of tribal spiritual practitioners vary widely.  AFAIK, there is no one word that is applicable to all without being problematic.  (Sometimes you'll see "shamanistic" used, but, honestly, I don't see how that's much better than "shamanism".)

There are tons of books out about "shamanism", some reasonably well respected, some not so much.  One place to start is Michael Harner's book, The Way of the Shaman, which basically sparked the modern shamanism craze.

One last point:  If you're interested in either or both druidry and tribal spiritual practices, and you do much research into them, you'll likely eventually run into the phrase "Celtic shamanism".  I'm sure you can guess that this is a problematic phrase.  It's sometimes used to refer to some of the practices of the ancient druids, although, again, we have very little solid info on them.  But there are enough hints in the lore that some people have been working to try to recreate those practices. How authentic they are is up for discussion. Ditto with the books that use the phrase.  In some cases, I think it is inserted into the titles of otherwise good books by publishers trying to capitalize on the interest in "shamanism".  In other cases, it's used by authors who don't really know what they're on about.

Fortunately, there are several very good reading lists for people interested in druidry and/or Celtic religion.  Check out the druidry SIG and the Celtic polytheism SIG for both reading lists and recommendations for specific books.

Good luck!

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About druidry:  While it's probably worth you taking a look at the neo-druid organizations out there, you should be aware that the Celtic cultures the original druids were part of would not have met your requirements.  They were not what we would consider peaceful out non-violent.  (If you read any of the lore, you'll find much of it is based on invasions and cattle raids).  

About shamanism:  First, the word "shaman" and its variants is considered by many to be a deeply problematic word, because it actually refers specifically to the practices of a particular tribe (in Siberia, IIRC).  However, over the years, it has been appropriated to label an extremely loosely associated group of spiritual practices, usually involving trance, journeying, ecstatic practices. and things like that.  "Shamanism" is also applied by outsiders to the practices of tribes and groups that have their own, perfectly good words for their own practices, which is disrespectful and rude.  Something to be aware of while you research.  And a topic that had been discussed on TC at some length, including by members of groups whose practices are mis-lableded as "shamanism", if you want to learn more.

One last point:  If you're interested in either or both druidry and tribal spiritual practices, and you do much research into them, you'll likely eventually run into the phrase "Celtic shamanism".  I'm sure you can guess that this is a problematic phrase.  It's sometimes used to refer to some of the practices of the ancient druids, although, again, we have very little solid info on them.  But there are enough hints in the lore that some people have been working to try to recreate those practices. How authentic they are is up for discussion. Ditto with the books that use the phrase.  In some cases, I think it is inserted into the titles of otherwise good books by publishers trying to capitalize on the interest in "shamanism".  In other cases, it's used by authors who don't really know what they're on about.

Thank you for all the info! It's very appreciated- as I know there are people who are very touchy about their culture and don't want it mixed up with others or robbed of its dignity in any way.

If modern ideas fit, you may want to look at FlameKeeping.  (Yes, it's my creation).  But it is completely agnostic on the issue of gods.  http://Www.FlameKeeping.org has info.

 
Oh! Interesting! I shall definitely look into it.

I think that's most of us, don't you?

Actually, no, I hadn't thought of it. Particularly because there are some who give and take from other cultures/faiths- and most cling to the phrase "Everyone walks their own path". For instance- Druid with Wiccan leanings, ect. Some try to stick to the one path, while others take from many and incorporate it. This in an of itself makes it difficult to explain to others and when others try to explain it to other outsiders, they get things mixed up and therein lies the problem. However, I don't see the problem with giving and taking from other paths, but others might view it as blasphemy or degrading in some way.

I didn't say giving and taking was a problem.  I was suggesting that we all want our own cultures to be respected.

Oh, well then yes. Quite right. ^^;

But I was originally talking about those who grew up in a culture and seeing others outside of their culture messing with it (even when giving it the highest respect) and being offended by that. For instance- I observed someone talking about totem animals in a very revered manner and then another person flying off the handle because "that originated in my tribe, you have no right!" and yeah... Lost it. I don't think beliefs and cultures can be claimed by blood relations. Whose to say their spirit didn't originate from his tribe? Anyway... rambling.

Oh, well then yes. Quite right. ^^;

But I was originally talking about those who grew up in a culture and seeing others outside of their culture messing with it (even when giving it the highest respect) and being offended by that. For instance- I observed someone talking about totem animals in a very revered manner and then another person flying off the handle because "that originated in my tribe, you have no right!" and yeah... Lost it. I don't think beliefs and cultures can be claimed by blood relations. Whose to say their spirit didn't originate from his tribe? Anyway... rambling.

Since I'm not a member of a tribe, I don't think I can really speak to this issue, except to say that I'm not convinced it's possible to "mess with" somebody's culture and give it the highest respect at the same time.  I think a lot of people make assumptions about things that they don't really know much about -- like the concept of totem animals.

But, again, since I'm not a member of a tribe, I can't really do more than say that I think people who "borrow" from other cultures should be very careful.  Hopefully, someone else who does have first-hand experience can explain this better.  There was a thread a few months ago about "shamanism" that really got into these issues well.  Sorry I can't link to it right now -- I'm on my phone.

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You may as well seek no path.You fail to understand the heart of anything spiritual. The fae are spirits. They are not material.Anyone who does their research would know that.It is not a path at all if you do not believe.

I use the term "mess with" to describe the view from the person who grew up with the culture as they see someone delving into their belief system. The curious one would believe they were practicing a religion whereas the one offended would think they're "messing with it".

But that's the point.   From the perspective of the member of the tribe, someone who "borrows" pieces of that tribe culture or religion IS messing with it.   Which is disrespectful.

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As a note, I'm starting to get very irritated trying to avoid all these eggshells I seem to be stepping on. I did read that this board was Beginner FRIENDLY. I am very much a beginner and I don't know where the mines are. Sorry.

Is that aimed at me?   I hope not.   I've spent a considerable amount of time answering your questions and pointing out a major issue to be aware of during your research into a topic you expressed interest in.   The fact that cultural appropriation is a rather large problem doesn't change just because this thread is in a beginner folder.   In fact, that's *why* I took the time to explain the issue -- because you're a beginner and, therefore, probably weren't aware of the issue.

I use the term "mess with" to describe the view from the person who grew up with the culture as they see someone delving into their belief system. The curious one would believe they were practicing a religion whereas the one offended would think they're "messing with it". I don't think anyone researches and practices a religion to purely "mess with it" at all. It's usually an endeavor that no one takes lightly.




To be honest, I'm not terribly sure- as it was quite a while ago, but I do think it was somewhere off-site. Now stealing a word and using it for something else, that's annoying in any language. Shamanism "prime" should be used only for that original belief, yes. Shamanism "common" should have a different name. I agree. But when one is using the terms correctly and respectfully, I think they should be free to walk that path instead of having people beat them down for not being brought up in it or "stealing" it.
 


 
Well aren't you just a little ray of sunshine? Did I not make it clear in my other posts that I am currently an atheist and came here because of an interest in the culture? Clearly, I am trying to discover a path that works for me and gives me a niche in this wonderfully diverse culture. I did state before that Buddhism is the only religion in which I've studied extensively. The only faerie I know is named Tinker Bell and she seems pretty physically placed on Peter Pan's shoulder. Furthermore, I would not be here at all if I believed everything I read. I'll take my precious doubt with me wherever I please. Thank you.

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As a note, I'm starting to get very irritated trying to avoid all these eggshells I seem to be stepping on. I did read that this board was Beginner FRIENDLY. I am very much a beginner and I don't know where the mines are. Sorry.

Sorry. I have been in an overall sour mood lately. The whole thing about the fae is a bit of a sore spot when it comes to me because it is related to the Celtic heritage I hold dear. Also it seemed perplexing to me that one would not already know that. I also do not frankly rightly why you seek such a path if you do not believe? What is it you are seeking? A fair number (but not all) of us keep some version of a four line maxim that sums up part of belief.  The version I was taught is as follows....

To know. To will. To believe. To keep silent. Ask yourself what you believe. What is it that you will?  I am still trying to figure out the To keep silent part. However that is just my take on it.

Basically look within yourself and ask yourself what you are seeking. It may sound cliched, but you must know what it is that you seek before you can find it.