The Cauldron: A Pagan Forum

In this post, in the 'Honoring Land Spirits' thread, Ferelia talked about avoiding offerings of food, drink or items, as these involve (unneccessary?) consumption of the produce of the earth.

I'm very keen to ensure that any offerings I give are ethical. I look at the processes of producing and shipping food etc., from as many perspectives as possible (from human rights to animal rights to environmental conservation), and this affects what I purchase (or grow or find) as offerings.

But offerings themselves, as an expression of hospitality, are central to my religion. In an ADF context, we give offerings in a spirit of hospitality and reciprocity: "I give so that you may give". My Gaelic polytheism is similarly based around giving offerings. If the gods are real - and I believe that they are - then they deserve hospitality.

This is often based on sharing my food with them, but I also have a bottle of whisky on hand most of the time that's mainly for them - I may have a taste, but the gods get the bulk of it. I will sometimes use found items - carefully - or buy things that are just for the gods, and that I wouldn't have been consuming otherwise.

So, in response to what Ferelia was saying: do you think giving physical offerings of this kind is important? Do you think it can be done ethically? Is it an expression of ethics itself, and if so, how does that reflect on what you give to the gods?

'

The thread you linked is an interesting one.

Although I am branching out to ADF and flamekeeping (all puns intended), I tend to go with Kemetic Orthodoxy's way of handling offerings. I go pretty simple. I offer food and drink that I generally consume after it hangs out on my shrine for a bit so the gods can take their share. I generally don't go out and buy specific things for the gods (Wepwawet decided he want a particular stone at the pagan shop) but use what I already have.

I don't like to be wasteful and buying something specifically for the gods (talking food/drink here mostly) that I have no interest or liking of because it seems silly to me. While I may bake something with offerings in mind (usually bread) I'm not going to make it to throw in my compost bin or trash uneaten later. That is wasteful to me. So to address your specific example, the whiskey, I wouldn't use it if I won't drink it.

My regular practice involves my giving physical offerings (or offering hospitality) to the gods. I find that I get a better sense of them if I do that even if all I offer at that moment is a cup of water.

Ethically, its up to you. What do you do with the left over offerings if you are not consuming them yourself? The world does not need extra trash. Do you offer whiskey to the gods then go and toss it down the drain? or take it outside and throw it in a compost bin? The later could be considered 2 offerings, one to the gods and one to the land-spirits as you use that compost to feed your plants. As far as found objects... why not offer them? You aren't generating additional waste if say you find a pretty plastic object and offer it to your gods and eventually recycle it. You already reused it. I do buy plastic flowers and such to decorate my shrine with. My view there is that I will reuse them over and over and over so it is not wasteful and I don't like cutting up my flowers when I'm not pruning them for health.

Celtic recons (or recon-influenced Celts) generally don't consume offerings. It's considered very bad luck and potentially harmful, based on traditions from Ireland and Scotland. Some things are religious obligations that are themselves ethically and culturally important. No, I don't pour offerings down the drain either - I would find that distasteful. I have a compost patch for most food offerings, and alcohol is either offered to the fire or allowed to evaporate on the altar.

I'm not asking for advice, by the way.  I'm comfortable with my own religious practices (though it is important to reconsider these critically on a regular basis). I'm interested in what others think and do.

 
I have wondered a bit about the Celtic Recon view on consuming offerings, so good to know.

A do apologize if I offend by trying offering advice.

In this post, in the 'Honoring Land Spirits' thread, Ferelia talked about avoiding offerings of food, drink or items, as these involve (unneccessary?) consumption of the produce of the earth.

I'm very keen to ensure that any offerings I give are ethical. I look at the processes of producing and shipping food etc., from as many perspectives as possible (from human rights to animal rights to environmental conservation), and this affects what I purchase (or grow or find) as offerings.

I try and tread lightly on the earth ( not very successfully).  Food and drink for my own consumption I try and buy as ethically as possible and I don't eat meat due to the way it is raised.

I apply the same reasoning to my offerings. The Gods get what I would eat or drink myself. These are then left in the garden and if not eaten by the garden visitors will decompose and return to the carbon cycle. If I'm out and about I'll leave offerings of organic raw spelt grain. As with everything it will have consumed resources in it's production but it will in turn be consumed by some passing animal or may even grow  into a plant. I know someone who leaves bird or flower seeds with the same intent.

Quite often I'll leave an offering of plain fresh spring water, especially when working with plant spirits. As I have a spring a few minutes walk away this is as environmentally friendly as it is possible to be.

I will be in real difficulty if I'm every required to offer meat. Fortunately this has not yet been asked of me.

So, in response to what Ferelia was saying: do you think giving physical offerings of this kind is important? Do you think it can be done ethically? Is it an expression of ethics itself, and if so, how does that reflect on what you give to the gods?

 
I've been really thinking a lot about offerings lately and my comfort level with them and how to give them. And I worry a lot about wasting food partly because of ethics and partly because I dislike throwing just throwing food away.

This is partly why I do eat food offerings when I do give them. I'm not actually sure what was done with those kinds of offerings in the past for the culture my deity is from due to lack of sources (culture in question being Slavic), but I know that in Germanic and Norse areas, the consumption or non consumption of offerings differed from place to place.

(Though if someone can point me to anything on offerings in Slavic cultures, that would be awesome.)

But I think physical offerings can be done ethically. For me an offering is a dialogue with a deity, where you notice something that you think the deity would appreciate. Also the two deities I do give offerings to, Veles and Mara, they both have marketplace associations and by buying their offerings at the local market and giving them things made locally like bread or flowers grown locally, I find that the act of buying and contributing to the local sellers is also an offering of a sort.

In this post, in the 'Honoring Land Spirits' thread, Ferelia talked about avoiding offerings of food, drink or items, as these involve (unneccessary?) consumption of the produce of the earth.

I posted my thoughts in the other thread by accident, so I thought I'd bring them over here for discussion
 

This is something I have struggled with as well.  I agree that it often feels hollow to give offerings that are not really *mine* in any meaningful sense of the word; flowers or feathers or other natural things fit under this heading for me.  But the giving of things that aren't easily biodegradable or are purchased give their own trouble - it seems disingenuous to me to give offerings to the earth or land spirits that may have directly harmed the land in their making.

The way I get around this is to make some kind of an effort to transform the things I offer without doing undue damage to the earth.  This usually means utilizing my own effort to make something suitable.  I will sometimes carve sticks or burn patterns into them, thus making my time and effort a big part of the offering.  The same applies when drying petals or herbs and grinding them with a mortar and pestle as an offering for the fire.  These things were not mine, and are still not mine; but enough of my energy has been invested into them that I feel they are suitable offerings.  My daughter likes to build little "fairy houses" out of found natural materials for the land spirits in our yard; I think it's a beautiful offering, though I'm not sure she's aware of any intention there :p

So, in response to what Ferelia was saying: do you think giving physical offerings of this kind is important? Do you think it can be done ethically? Is it an expression of ethics itself, and if so, how does that reflect on what you give to the gods?

 
I give physical offerings, sometimes they're things I've grown, sometimes they're things I've made from bought ingredients, sometimes they're something I've bought straight off the shelf. It would be fantastic to be able to grow everything for offerings myself, but it's just not practical. I mean I'm not going to start growing my own grains and milling them, baking bread and offering it is important to me so I will do it with bought flour. Considering that, I don't see a huge difference of buying the product straight off the shelf either, you do what works for you.

Ethics is something worth considering, I would love to be able to buy organic, free range everything, but it's just not financially viable for me to do that with all items right now. That said, I still try to align my offerings with my personal values, but it's not a hard and fast thing, I do what I can to the degree I can.

I guess this comment makes me feel twitchy, because I don't see it as a waste of food. If the gods are real, I'm offering them food, and they're absorbing its essence. (This being the reason Celtic recons don't eat offerings - the spiritual essence has been absorbed and it will be no good to you.) But to those who believe the gods are symbols or archetypes, then yes, I'm clearly wasting a lot of food.

 
The food thing and feeling uncomfortable with not eating it is primarily a personal thing due to reasons I'm not entirely comfortable going into on a public space, so it's no particular judgment on you. What I can say however is that my reason is not one based on ethics. Just personal issues.

My patron knows my discomfort with food being left uneaten and I've discussed it with him. Now if I had a option to compost my food such as you do, maybe I'd be more comfortable, but that isn't really an option to me at the moment.