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Author Topic: The religious cul-de-sac  (Read 5183 times)

dionysiandame

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Re: The religious cul-de-sac
« Reply #30 on: June 19, 2013, 07:51:11 am »
Quote from: veggiewolf;110140
So, I've been slowly backing myself into a religious corner by ignoring (I know, smart me!) the hints that I need to do some specific religious work.  Over the weekend, I got "shoved" in the direction of Nut and basically told to do the work I'm meant to do with Her before I do anything else.

I'm now stuck in what I'm calling a religious cul-de-sac, knowing what I need to do, but wanting to do anything but...and I am, of course, unable to focus on anything except the Nut work.  Clearly, I'm meant to DO THIS NOW and the hell with everything else on my spiritual plate.

Is anyone else currently parked near me?  If so, how are you coping?  

For those that have successfully moved out of a cul-de-sac in the past, how did you do it?

I'm completely parked and while I have a very clear idea on one front I'm completely at a loss on another. After 3 years I have finally finished Dionysus' altar. There is a next stage in my service to him that requires me deepening our relationship and I love him so much I'm afraid of what I am willing to let into my life the way I am moving towards.

And, here recently, the budding relationship I am establishing with the Morning Star is in limbo. I can sense where I am supposed to be going and what I should be doing but I'm still holding on to certain habits of escapism I have and he is NOT having that shit at all. I either go hard or go home and stop wasting his time.

I know all of this sounds hella vague but :ashamed: I'm still getting comfortable with the idea of sharing my UPG. (Did I mention this is one of the things I'm supposed to be working on? No? Well now you know.)
« Last Edit: June 19, 2013, 07:53:44 am by dionysiandame »
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Varian

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Re: The religious cul-de-sac
« Reply #31 on: June 19, 2013, 08:22:45 am »
Quote from: veggiewolf;110140
Is anyone else currently parked near me?  If so, how are you coping?  

For those that have successfully moved out of a cul-de-sac in the past, how did you do it?

 
Yep.  I'm being pointed towards embracing a Kemectic belief system, because an eclectic system will only take me so far.

veggiewolf

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Re: The religious cul-de-sac
« Reply #32 on: June 19, 2013, 10:02:29 am »
Quote from: dionysiandame;113009
I'm completely parked and while I have a very clear idea on one front I'm completely at a loss on another. After 3 years I have finally finished Dionysus' altar. There is a next stage in my service to him that requires me deepening our relationship and I love him so much I'm afraid of what I am willing to let into my life the way I am moving towards.

And, here recently, the budding relationship I am establishing with the Morning Star is in limbo. I can sense where I am supposed to be going and what I should be doing but I'm still holding on to certain habits of escapism I have and he is NOT having that shit at all. I either go hard or go home and stop wasting his time.

I know all of this sounds hella vague but :ashamed: I'm still getting comfortable with the idea of sharing my UPG. (Did I mention this is one of the things I'm supposed to be working on? No? Well now you know.)

 
Not the same gods I'm dealing with, but this sounds familiar.
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Aett of Cups

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Re: The religious cul-de-sac
« Reply #33 on: June 21, 2013, 02:00:40 am »
Quote
For those that have successfully moved out of a cul-de-sac in the past, how did you do it?

 
Yeah, I go in and out of this particular cul-de-sac, either about specific issues or just in general.  When I get there, I always find I've stopped meditating every day.  When I need to get back, I start meditating every day - even if I don't have any particular goal or anything.

I also agree with some of the other posters that it's sometimes important to take just one part of a task or goal at a time.  Sometimes it helps me to get divination help (for the most part, I can't read for myself).  It can help to journal or consult past journal entries.  It can also help to talk to spirit guides, even when I'm not sure what to ask.

It also sometimes helps me to consider an elemental model of completing a goal or creating a new habit or pattern in my life:

AIR: We're inspired.  We think about different strategies.  We plan out what we'll do.

FIRE: We consider whether the plan we've made is worth our while, whether it stirs us enough to commit to it.  If so, we begin to apply our energy.

WATER: We begin to get used to the new pattern and the feelings it causes within us.  The pattern begins to sink into our subconscious.

EARTH: We finalize the goal or make the pattern a permanent part of ourselves.  It is no longer part of what we wish for ourselves; it's now part of who we are.

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Maybe we need a "What Are You Avoiding?" thread?


I'm afraid I'd avoid it.

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The only word from 'on high' is the rune Pertho


Interpretations of runes can differ greatly, so take this with a grain of salt.  However, I find pertho or perthro (especially in an Elder Futhark context) to indicate play, games, laughter, that sort of thing.  It might represent a need to raise energy in a free-form manner and see how it manifests (probably setting ethical guidelines first if you're on a right-hand path) or perhaps a need to undertake an astral journey with no particular destination.

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I have finally finished Dionysus' altar. There is a next stage in my service to him that requires me deepening our relationship and I love him so much I'm afraid of what I am willing to let into my life the way I am moving towards.


Dionysus can be tricky to deal with, which is part of his charm and, indeed, necessary to his character.  A deity that understands patience and stability - if you want to stay in the pantheon, Hestia might work well - might help balance his influence.

Quote
because an eclectic system will only take me so far.


In what way/s do you feel eclectic practice is limited?

Quote
Over the weekend, I got "shoved" in the direction of Nut and basically told to do the work I'm meant to do with Her before I do anything else.


I see Nut, in many ways, as a titan, primal, greater elemental, elder force, or whatever you may call it in your practice.  Sometimes it's valuable to find a deity to help you find ways to communicate with titanic forces, even if you've made contact before.  In this particular case, I'd recommend Osiris - he's pretty comfortable in the darkness, after all.  Also, I would think Nut might very well want you to proceed blindly on at least part of your initiation; it would be consistent with her nature, at least.

I don't know how helpful any of this might have be, but thanks for the interesting conversation nonetheless.
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Melamphoros

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Re: The religious cul-de-sac
« Reply #34 on: June 21, 2013, 12:29:34 pm »
Quote from: Aett of Cups;113195


 
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Jack

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Re: The religious cul-de-sac
« Reply #35 on: June 21, 2013, 12:38:48 pm »
Quote from: Aett of Cups;113195
I see Nut, in many ways, as a titan, primal, greater elemental, elder force, or whatever you may call it in your practice.  Sometimes it's valuable to find a deity to help you find ways to communicate with titanic forces, even if you've made contact before.  In this particular case, I'd recommend Osiris - he's pretty comfortable in the darkness, after all.  Also, I would think Nut might very well want you to proceed blindly on at least part of your initiation; it would be consistent with her nature, at least.

 
I don't work with Nut, but I do work with some beings that are considered to be more primal forces than the "proper" gods. I've heard this kind of advice before, and I don't really understand it. If I was meant to be working with civilized gods, civilized gods would approach me. (Well, okay, I do work with some civilized gods, but they don't run interference for me either.)

Maybe it's because I grew up Catholic, with the accompanying idea that we need Mary and the Saints to intercede for us because otherwise OMG God's not gonna listen!, and so I threw out the idea of intermediaries when I moved on from Catholicism the first time.
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Aett of Cups

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Re: The religious cul-de-sac
« Reply #36 on: June 22, 2013, 05:06:17 am »
Quote from: Jack;113219
I don't work with Nut, but I do work with some beings that are considered to be more primal forces than the "proper" gods. I've heard this kind of advice before, and I don't really understand it. If I was meant to be working with civilized gods, civilized gods would approach me. (Well, okay, I do work with some civilized gods, but they don't run interference for me either.)

 
First caveat: Well, I can't claim it's the right approach in any empirical sense; I'm a moral and experiential relativist.  If it doesn't work for you - and you know you've really considered it, as you seem to have done here - ignore it.

Second caveat: I've always worked with a large number of spirit guides.  Some people have told me that this is because I'm weak and need a lot of help.  Because I don't form relationships that I feel are co-dependent, I don't happen to believe this is true.  Still, you may want to consider this possible flaw in the statements I'm making.  I can't imagine having just one matron or patron on my path - I have four primary ones and dozens of secondary ones.  I might be biased in favor of asking for help in situations like this, especially because my guides know I want them to refuse to help if it's something I can handle myself - especially when I'm being challenged within my potential.

I, personally, see one key difference in the two models we're discussing.  In the Catholic model (if I understand correctly), humans need someone to intercede for them because they are inherently unworthy to directly address their primary deity (or one of his aspects, perhaps?).  In the contact-with-primals model, I'm advocating finding an intermediary in order to facilitate communication because (I believe) humans and primals perceive the universe in very different ways (leading to very different communication strategies).  I have no experience with Nut myself, apart from the briefest contact as I was recommending that someone contact her / it once based on some information they'd shared with me about their dreams.  But consider, for instance, my contact with Oya (an archetype that is, at least, quasi-primal in my view).  I can't speak to her / it in words, per se, though that could just be my own failure to communicate.  When I get near her / it, I feel the wildness of the storm - even, sometimes, the necessary chaos of destruction.  I don't so much think when she / it is close as just feel and try to keep from being swept away by a force that is almost non-anthropomorphized.  Or Chronos.  It can be useful to get near him for the practice of temporal magic, but get too close and time will get really... goopy, and you could get seriously lost and never come back to your present.  I'm not moving through space-time in enough directions to even form a basic dialogue with him / it.  I wouldn't know where to begin.

In the case of Osiris (whom I know), I wouldn't suggest that anyone become permanently attached to using him as a translator.  I would just recommend talking to him at first because he might have advice on how to begin a dialogue with a force that is so titanic in nature.

This could go so many directions at this point, but I think they would hurl us off-topic.  I'll limit myself to these remarks for now.  Thanks for your words.  I can see how I might better explain this in the future now, especially to Catholics and ex-Catholics.
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veggiewolf

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Re: The religious cul-de-sac
« Reply #37 on: June 25, 2013, 11:42:13 am »
Quote from: Aett of Cups;113195
...
I see Nut, in many ways, as a titan, primal, greater elemental, elder force, or whatever you may call it in your practice.  Sometimes it's valuable to find a deity to help you find ways to communicate with titanic forces, even if you've made contact before.  In this particular case, I'd recommend Osiris - he's pretty comfortable in the darkness, after all.  Also, I would think Nut might very well want you to proceed blindly on at least part of your initiation; it would be consistent with her nature, at least.


Well, I'm not going in blindly as I have reference material and a pretty good idea of what is coming.  I've just been avoiding it, up until now, because it is terrifying.

However, I'm starting the Nut cycle (for real this time) at Wep Ronpet.

Quote
I don't know how helpful any of this might have be, but thanks for the interesting conversation nonetheless.


You're welcome!
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Re: The religious cul-de-sac
« Reply #38 on: June 26, 2013, 03:39:08 pm »
Quote from: veggiewolf;110140
So, I've been slowly backing myself into a religious corner by ignoring (I know, smart me!) the hints that I need to do some specific religious work.  Over the weekend, I got "shoved" in the direction of Nut and basically told to do the work I'm meant to do with Her before I do anything else.

I'm now stuck in what I'm calling a religious cul-de-sac, knowing what I need to do, but wanting to do anything but...and I am, of course, unable to focus on anything except the Nut work.  Clearly, I'm meant to DO THIS NOW and the hell with everything else on my spiritual plate.

Is anyone else currently parked near me?  If so, how are you coping?  

For those that have successfully moved out of a cul-de-sac in the past, how did you do it?


I got out of one by total surrender.

The current one is a bit more dodgy. I'm stuck and I don't know how to get out of it, mainly because of disbelief.

Let me explain. We all know what channeling or horsing is don't we? Well, I'm stuck there as I'm getting the feeling Macha wants me to do this, but I don't believe in it.

How's that for a conundrum. Any suggestions?

As far as I'm aware, no one on the Cauldron channels and it is looked on VERY skeptically. And I agree. So how do I know if this is real or some nutter dream I'm having trying to make myself 'speshul'.

Darkhawk

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Re: The religious cul-de-sac
« Reply #39 on: June 26, 2013, 03:46:36 pm »
Quote from: Phouka;113801
Let me explain. We all know what channeling or horsing is don't we? Well, I'm stuck there as I'm getting the feeling Macha wants me to do this, but I don't believe in it.

How's that for a conundrum. Any suggestions?

As far as I'm aware, no one on the Cauldron channels and it is looked on VERY skeptically. And I agree. So how do I know if this is real or some nutter dream I'm having trying to make myself 'speshul'.

 
The Mystery-Builders' SIG would be an appropriate place to start conversation on that subject, if you wanted to do so; it's intended as a place to discuss the more woo-oriented end of practice, as distinct from the more objective-evidence default modality of the board.
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Jenett

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Re: The religious cul-de-sac
« Reply #40 on: June 26, 2013, 04:00:13 pm »
Quote from: Phouka;113801

As far as I'm aware, no one on the Cauldron channels and it is looked on VERY skeptically. And I agree. So how do I know if this is real or some nutter dream I'm having trying to make myself 'speshul'.

 
You'd be wrong about that first sentence: I don't do it often (because a) I believe it's something done only in service to the larger community in some way and b) I don't do it without a sufficient support staff.)

But it is a part of my practice, and I've mentioned it being so when it's come up here before. (I'm pretty sure there's someone else who's mentioned it, but I don't recall who or how recently.)

I'd second taking it up in the Mystery-Builders sig: I'm also glad to discuss, though for a bunch of reasons there are pieces I don't talk about in public space, and also some I only discuss with people I have a *lot* of groundwork about shared ritual experience/language with.
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Re: The religious cul-de-sac
« Reply #41 on: June 26, 2013, 04:03:08 pm »
Quote from: Phouka;113801
I got out of one by total surrender.

The current one is a bit more dodgy. I'm stuck and I don't know how to get out of it, mainly because of disbelief.

Let me explain. We all know what channeling or horsing is don't we? Well, I'm stuck there as I'm getting the feeling Macha wants me to do this, but I don't believe in it.

How's that for a conundrum. Any suggestions?

As far as I'm aware, no one on the Cauldron channels and it is looked on VERY skeptically. And I agree. So how do I know if this is real or some nutter dream I'm having trying to make myself 'speshul'.

 
I channel regularly, though I tend to not talk about it very often.  But yes, I can discuss it as well - and you're not alone in it, either.  (though I wouldn't call what I do horsing - I'm aware and part of the conversation.  I don't go *away* like I believe happens with horsing?  I think?)

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Re: The religious cul-de-sac
« Reply #42 on: June 26, 2013, 04:12:49 pm »
Quote from: HeartShadow;113806
I channel regularly, though I tend to not talk about it very often.  But yes, I can discuss it as well - and you're not alone in it, either.  (though I wouldn't call what I do horsing - I'm aware and part of the conversation.  I don't go *away* like I believe happens with horsing?  I think?)

 
The language is so very imprecise. (I tend to prefer aspecting as a term, but y'know. One of those things there.)

My experience is that the people who I trust who are doing it have a variety of degrees of it, taken over a period of years - sometimes it's a light feeling of presence, sometimes it's words in their head that need saying, sometimes it's sitting on the deity's shoulder and watching and listening but not being the one talking/acting, and sometimes it's going entirely away and having a very different experience.

(And I've done all four of those at various points: the first and second are *way* more common for me than the others, and they're also the safer ones if you don't have an extended ritual support mechanism.)
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veggiewolf

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Re: The religious cul-de-sac
« Reply #43 on: June 27, 2013, 08:32:29 am »
Quote from: Phouka;113801
...

As far as I'm aware, no one on the Cauldron channels and it is looked on VERY skeptically. And I agree. So how do I know if this is real or some nutter dream I'm having trying to make myself 'speshul'.

I channel (or act as an answering machine), occasionally, since an incident in March 2012, and I'd be interested in talking about it with other people in a safe space.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2013, 08:33:06 am by veggiewolf »
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ALiteraryLady

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Re: The religious cul-de-sac
« Reply #44 on: June 27, 2013, 08:38:30 am »
Quote from: veggiewolf;113872
I channel (or act as an answering machine), occasionally, since an incident in March 2012, and I'd be interested in talking about it with other people in a safe space.

 
This would be fascinating...just saying. If this group exists, please let me know what the name of it is. If not, it should.

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