collapse

* "Unable to verify referring url. Please go back and try again" Problem Logging In?

If you get an "Unable to verify referring url. Please go back and try again" error when you try to log in, you need to be sure you are accessing the board with a url that starts with "https://ecauldron.com".  If it starts with https://www.ecauldron.com" (or "http://www.ecauldron.com") you will get this error because "www.ecauldron.com" is not technically the same website as "ecauldron.com". Moving to the more secure "https" means it is more picky about such things.

Author Topic: Pain as Offering/Ritual Work through Pain  (Read 6802 times)

monsnoleedra

  • Sr. Master Member
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jul 2011
  • Banned!
  • Posts: 957
  • Total likes: 1
    • View Profile
Re: Pain as Offering/Ritual Work through Pain
« Reply #30 on: October 14, 2011, 11:20:32 pm »
Quote from: ToddGrove;25457
I have much interest in such a thing actually. One small problem. I wouldn't know HOW exactly do to it. I would want to go through a physical pain to honour my ancestors and Andvare. I just don't know how. Would i have to chant a certain ritual? Would i have to do it in a certain manner? Would it be by blade or club kind of question i suppose.


That's actually a difficult thing to answer for in may vary depending upon ones gods / goddesses, the pantheon they follow and even the pathway they walk.  To a great extent even to the desire and reasons why they choose a particular tatoo vice a different one that may convey many or all of the same visuals.

For myself I would perform an honoring ceremony the night before I began getting the tatoo.  State the reasons during the ceremony as to why I choose what the pattern was, what it means to me and how it makes me feel.  Dedicate to which ever god / goddess or combination of gods / goddesses that I was doing it for.  State that my offering to him / her or them would be the blood of my body, the pain inflicted upon my body in the obtainment of it and the honoring would be the wearing of it as a mark of my dedication / devotion to him / her / them as the case maybe.

Then once the tatoo was finished I would hold another ceremony / ritual and make offerings and libations to them.  Actually present the tatoo to them in the ceremony and somewaht repeat the things I did in the initial ceremony / ritual where I sacrificed to them via my body.

But as I stated that is what I would do based upon my knowledge of those I honor and am devoted to.  For others the methods may vary greatly or be similiar in scope and purpose.

Vella Malachite

  • Sr. Apprentice
  • ****
  • Join Date: Jul 2011
  • Posts: 54
  • Total likes: 0
    • View Profile
Re: Pain as Offering/Ritual Work through Pain
« Reply #31 on: October 14, 2011, 11:27:09 pm »
Quote from: veggiewolf;23907
(1) If you work with deity, has pain ever been requested as an offering?  If so, did you offer it? If not, would you consider it?

(2) Do you use pain in ritual?  If so, have you seen a benefit from it?  

(3) Is the use of ritual pain something in which you have any interest?  Why or why not?

 
First off, thanks for posting this!  It made me think of a couple of things in a different way.

So, answers:
(1) It hasn't been required of me so far.  If I were required to offer it, I probably would.  I've been through emotional pain, so I'm no stranger to that, and I have 'offered' my resulting strength in the past (or should I say used that strength to remind me of and honour my deities?  That's probably more accurate).  Physical pain I'm OK with.  I've had no major sicknesses and I'm quite healthy, so my view is that my body heals itself, and heals quite well.  As long as I'm not required to do something that will interfere majorly with its functioning (e.g. breaking a bone, removing a finger), that's fine.  Just a cut?  OK.  A bruise?  Sure.  My only issue is that I've seriously considered self-harm before, and I'd want to be absolutely certain that it was a request from the gods and not me making things up.

(2) Again, no, I haven't used pain in ritual, possibly because I've not done much in the way of ritual...

(3) On one hand, the use of ritual pain interests me in an academic context; I would like to know why, how, when, what purpose, in terms of other people.  For myself, I take the view that suffering that leads to growth can be a spiritual experience, so why not use it in a spiritual context?  In terms of the minor pain I discussed before, I can't really see a huge point to it.  I suppose you could interpret it as being willing to cause harm for the gods, but if there's no end result, no growth, no change or product of pain, it's just a gesture.  I offer food because I share with the gods; the end result is an 'I have broken bread with you' kind of thing, plus, food is a result of itself.  I offer writing because it is a product in and of itself; I've worked hard on it and resulted in a (hopefully) beautiful piece of art.  If I offered pain, it'd be because it's pain I worked to overcome, not just a little cut on the arm I forgot about five minutes later.
I'd definitely get a tattoo; I'm planning one now. That's pain which produces a reminder, so there's an end result to the pain.
The human brain is an amazing thing: it works twenty-four hours a day, every day from before we are born - except when we take exams.
If everything\'s under control, you\'re going too slowly.

Maps

  • Sr. Master Member
  • *******
  • Join Date: Nov 2011
  • Posts: 703
  • Total likes: 0
    • View Profile
Re: Pain as Offering/Ritual Work through Pain
« Reply #32 on: December 16, 2011, 10:52:42 am »
Quote from: veggiewolf;23907
(1) If you work with deity, has pain ever been requested as an offering?  If so, did you offer it? If not, would you consider it?

(2) Do you use pain in ritual?  If so, have you seen a benefit from it?  

(3) Is the use of ritual pain something in which you have any interest?  Why or why not?

My answers will be in my next post.

 
1. If I get more seriously involved with the ancient Maya religion (god I need to come up with a better name for that), ritual bloodletting will be required of me, though not because any particular deity asked for it, but more because of the worldview. I wouldn't be able to enact the traditional sorts of self-mutilation that the upper classes took part in (not sure I'd have to do that, seeing as how I'm not a spiritual or political leader in any sense), like pulling barbed string through the tongue and ears, perforating the genitalia with spines, or cutting the hands and sprinkling blood to mimic the sowing of corn. I could definitely do a few drops here and there, though. Aztec recons already do this regularly, though they usually use lancets and draw the blood from their fingers.

2. Only did it once so far, though that was for spellwork. I don't expect to see the results just yet as it's a bit long-term, but I put my petition out there and I'd think a couple drops of blood would really emphasize the fact that it was important, I'm serious about the request, and that I'm willing to do almost anything I can in the mundane world to reach that goal. I really have yet to delve into the pain as a tool thing much at all, but I find pain to be really powerful in certain circumstances. It helps me focus, and meditating while in mild pain from whatever is really nice.

3. I'm quite interested in it from a Mesoamerican POV, but I want to do a lot more research (if the material is available, of course) before I decide to include it into my regular workings. Lol, I have to sort out my idea of what deity is too first, though, I think...

Valentine

  • Sr. Master Member
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jul 2011
  • Posts: 936
  • Country: us
  • Total likes: 79
    • View Profile
  • Religion: get free; get others free; make new life in the aftermath
  • Preferred Pronouns: she/her
Re: Pain as Offering/Ritual Work through Pain
« Reply #33 on: December 16, 2011, 02:36:07 pm »
Quote from: Darkhawk;24795
My sis once said to me "If you're going to go through the blood and pain of it you should dedicate it to something."

 
Ahahaha you beat me to it.
*curtsey*
"Let be be finale of seem." - Wallace Stevens, "The Emperor of Ice-Cream"
"There isn't a way things should be.  There's just what happens, and what we do."
- Terry Pratchett, "A Hat Full of Sky"

Fagan_the_Pagan

  • Journeyman
  • *****
  • Join Date: Sep 2011
  • Posts: 249
  • Total likes: 0
    • View Profile
Re: Pain as Offering/Ritual Work through Pain
« Reply #34 on: December 16, 2011, 03:49:21 pm »
Quote from: veggiewolf;23907
(1) If you work with deity, has pain ever been requested as an offering?  If so, did you offer it? If not, would you consider it?

(2) Do you use pain in ritual?  If so, have you seen a benefit from it?  

(3) Is the use of ritual pain something in which you have any interest?  Why or why not?

My answers will be in my next post.


It's never been required from a deity I've made contact with.  That said, I have used pain as an offering in certain circumstances in the past.  It is not something that is typically part of my practice, but I am open to it if it feels appropriate to the work that I am doing.
(/|\\)  Fire in the Head: My Blog on Matters Spiritual, Political, or otherwise important to me.
Bardistry Wandworks: My Etsy shop for wands, athames, and other pagan crafts.

Rowanfox

  • Sr. Apprentice
  • ****
  • Join Date: Aug 2011
  • Posts: 65
  • Total likes: 0
    • View Profile
Re: Pain as Offering/Ritual Work through Pain
« Reply #35 on: December 19, 2011, 06:58:32 pm »
Quote from: veggiewolf;23907
 The idea that anyone could want to use pain in ritual, or as an offering, is too alien, too "out there"...and yet it happens on a daily basis around the world, and often closer to us than we think.



I wonder if that is because we haven't separated pain from the cause. I can think of several cases where some dedicates or uses pain from an act of ritual or sacrifice (the tattoo examples come to mind) but where the focus is on the ritual act (the tattoo) and not on the pain.

In the case of doing long term temple meditation, or long strenuous sets or standing or sitting or dance, where pain is an after effect, it might not even be considered part of the ritual offering.

I suspect much of the stigma around pain as sacrifice is caused by the question "Just how are we generating this pain....?"

Quote from: veggiewolf;23907
 

(1) If you work with deity, has pain ever been requested as an offering?  If so, did you offer it? If not, would you consider it?

(2) Do you use pain in ritual?  If so, have you seen a benefit from it?  

(3) Is the use of ritual pain something in which you have any interest?  Why or why not?



1) yes and yes
2) yes. In my case it is all about inducing trance states, so yes.
3) sure, it is an integral part of my tradition.

That being said, I will qualify that a regular day dealing with rheumatoid arthritis is still many orders of magnitude worse than any pain I have ever dedicated in circle.....

Nachtigall

  • Master Member
  • ******
  • Join Date: Sep 2011
  • Posts: 287
  • Total likes: 0
    • View Profile
Re: Pain as Offering/Ritual Work through Pain
« Reply #36 on: December 20, 2011, 12:54:55 pm »
Quote from: veggiewolf;23907

(1) If you work with deity, has pain ever been requested as an offering?  If so, did you offer it? If not, would you consider it?


(2) Do you use pain in ritual?  If so, have you seen a benefit from it?  

(3) Is the use of ritual pain something in which you have any interest?  Why or why not?

My answers will be in my next post.


1) No, it hasn't. Occasionally I had to go through some rather painful mental states (an analogue would be a kind of medical procedure, very unpleasant but vital to one's health), and it was clear that I should not try avoiding all this, but I don't think it's the pain specifically that He wanted from me. If it's requested in future, I will comply eventually; although I'd examine it very carefully, if I ever feel that some being, deity or not, asks me to hurt myself.

2) Discomfort, both mental and physical, yes, but not pain.
3) Perhaps. Such a ritual would have to be carefully considered though, and the cause for it has to be really important.

Tags:
 

Related Topics

  Subject / Started by Replies Last post
7 Replies
1541 Views
Last post December 20, 2011, 08:06:01 pm
by chthonic-me
11 Replies
1073 Views
Last post October 17, 2013, 03:58:42 pm
by whiteorchid
11 Replies
893 Views
Last post October 08, 2013, 08:27:28 am
by Morag
18 Replies
1967 Views
Last post October 02, 2015, 07:35:25 pm
by RandallS
5 Replies
776 Views
Last post August 22, 2017, 04:16:06 pm
by Noctua

* Who's Online

  • Dot Guests: 42
  • Dot Hidden: 0
  • Dot Users: 1
  • Dot Users Online:

* Please Donate!

The Cauldron's server is expensive and requires monthly payments. Please become a Bronze, Silver or Gold Donor if you can. Donations are needed every month. Without member support, we can't afford the server.

* In Memoriam

Chavi (2006)
Elspeth (2010)
Marilyn (2013)

* Cauldron Staff

Host:
Sunflower

Message Board Staff
Board Coordinator:
Darkhawk

Assistant Board Coordinator:
Aster Breo

Senior Staff:
Aisling, Jenett, Sefiru

Staff:
Allaya, Chatelaine, EclecticWheel, HarpingHawke, Kylara, PerditaPickle, rocquelaire

Discord Chat Staff
Chat Coordinator:
Morag

Cauldron Council:
Bob, Catja, Emma-Eldritch, Fausta, Jubes, Kelly, LyricFox, Phouka, Sperran, Star, Steve, Tana

Site Administrator:
Randall