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Author Topic: Pain as Offering/Ritual Work through Pain  (Read 7238 times)

veggiewolf

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Re: Pain as Offering/Ritual Work through Pain
« Reply #15 on: October 05, 2011, 02:53:22 pm »
Quote from: sephira;23964
1. My current patron has not requested that I use pain as an offering and I'm hoping he doesn't as I don't think I'm prepared emotionally nor physically(see below)to obey. OK, maybe obey is a strong word. Comply is a much better word.


Comply *is* a better word.  ;)

Quote
2. I was once in a coven where pain was used in a ritual. I was whipped with a cat-of-nine-tails. It was somewhat painful, but not bad enough to leave welts  (due to a pain condition I suffer from I have a very low threshold for pain). I didn't really notice a benefit from it other than it was appreciated by the entire coven that I took part in the ritual (It was my second ritual with them).


I've not been initiated in a coven setting (I left the coven I belonged to once-upon-a-time before I even got close - creepiness issues), but I've heard more than once about pain being used as part of ritual in those circumstances.
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veggiewolf

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Re: Pain as Offering/Ritual Work through Pain
« Reply #16 on: October 05, 2011, 02:58:14 pm »
Quote from: SatAset;23991
The deities I work with have not asked for pain as an offering.  I have offered tears before from crying because of emotional pain.  I have offered healing from emotional pain before, but not physical pain.  

I don't think I would offer physical pain as an offering.  I deal with pain due to migraines and headaches from a surgery.  I have other physical issues too, so making it harder for me to function will not help me function.  

But taking care of myself while I am in pain can be an offering.


I've not offered tears; it is something I can definitely see myself doing, however.  What a lovely idea.

Taking care of myself is something my deities require of me.  Yes, there might appear to be a disconnect between care for self and the topic of this thread, but I think the two are interconnected and worth exploring together.  

Quote
Thank you, Veggiewolf for starting this topic.  It's good to discuss this openly.


You're welcome!  I'm operating from the POV that open discussion can reduce fear of the unknown.
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veggiewolf

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Re: Pain as Offering/Ritual Work through Pain
« Reply #17 on: October 05, 2011, 02:59:52 pm »
Quote from: hufflee;23999
...
Once, sort of. I wasn't looking for the pain so much as the scar. The pain was a side effect. I wanted the scar to remind me of something. It's very small - about half an inch long, and it's on the palm of my left hand so no one has ever noticed it unless I pointed it out. (to one specific person). The benefit is that whenever I see the scar, it reminds me of what I wanted to remember.

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« Last Edit: October 05, 2011, 03:00:15 pm by veggiewolf »
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Darkhawk

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Re: Pain as Offering/Ritual Work through Pain
« Reply #18 on: October 05, 2011, 04:21:56 pm »
Quote from: veggiewolf;24065
How do you see yourself working through this, if you don't mind answering?


Honestly, it's so far off my plate right now that I'm not able to generate space in my brain to process it.  I suspect I'm doing some subconscious-level stuff along the lines of "This is an unacceptable limitation, so let's let it start dissolving back there so that when I need to go through there it'll be easier to break down."  Backbrain can be useful.

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Knowing you have tons on your plate, that last is probably a relief, yes? ;)

 
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Sperran

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Re: Pain as Offering/Ritual Work through Pain
« Reply #19 on: October 05, 2011, 04:26:48 pm »
Quote from: veggiewolf;24066

Long period of fasting, in my book, constitute pain and would strike me as pain willingly endured to gain wisdom/connection with God.  Just my $0.02.

 
I would agree but I don't think of one day as a "long" period of fasting.  The Yom Kippur fast is the longest at 25 hours.

monsnoleedra

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Re: Pain as Offering/Ritual Work through Pain
« Reply #20 on: October 05, 2011, 07:19:08 pm »
Quote from: veggiewolf;24067
.. Sensory deprivation isn't something I've looked at as a spiritual tool, although it makes sense.  If you don't mind me asking, have you used it?  Was it of benefit?


A few times.  Mostly for iniation of journey type workings though a couple times of shadow work.

For journey work its been blocking out visual and audio influences as much as possible.  Then for me once I had become detached it was easier to project outward and step into the tree or descend into the earth.

For shadow work I've used the above method but also utilized binding.  Though I admit this one has to be done very carefully less you injure yourself.  If your going to go into extreme's think of bound arms and legs then wrapped tightly in blankets or such.  I would highly recommend an aide or companion for any of these as they really have to pay close attention to ensure you do not harm yourself.

With shadow work it's also the notion of bind yourself bind your shadow's ability to use them.

Sensory deprivation can be strange as all you hear is your blood in your ears and the songs of your head.  If you have any degree of tenitis (sp) then you can't really tune it out but have to push through it which can be a test of itself.

monsnoleedra

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Re: Pain as Offering/Ritual Work through Pain
« Reply #21 on: October 05, 2011, 07:27:01 pm »
Quote from: veggiewolf;24073
.. I've not been initiated in a coven setting (I left the coven I belonged to once-upon-a-time before I even got close - creepiness issues), but I've heard more than once about pain being used as part of ritual in those circumstances.


Not fully with a coven scene but it occurs to me that as a male pain and blooding is or was a pretty common initiation into what might be called male mysteries as I was growing up.  Especially in the sense of being bitten by the weapons we would be using and coming to know.

I've been cut by more knives, hooked by more hooks, barbs or pins than I can think of as I grew up.  Which to me always reminded me of the blooding ceremonies that young males were submitted to at the Orthia temple of Artemis in Sparta or referenced to at other temples and sanctuaries.

I know my sisters went through similiar things yet based and driven by our aunts and grandmother.  Can't really speak on that though as us boys were always told that didn't apply to us so we only knew of surface things.

Setnusutekh

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Re: Pain as Offering/Ritual Work through Pain
« Reply #22 on: October 07, 2011, 12:34:16 am »
Quote
(1) If you work with deity, has pain ever been requested as an offering?  If so, did you offer it? If not, would you consider it?


I haven't ever been asked outright, but it's something I think my patron expects to strengthen me. Well, being part of the unfortunate womenfolk who tend to have extreme pain every month (yay for a retroverted uterus!...heh...), and suffering through pain so often, it seems like being strong and enduring is what Set really wants from me sometimes. There are times when I can't move from pain, but I have to mentally deal with it, until it subsides. He's also taught me to be prepared, because anticipating the pain is a good way to either avoid it, or grit your teeth beforehand so you can fight it. I also had scarlet fever as a baby, and being put on steriods somehow made me slightly immune to most painkillers :eek: Also, the fever seriously did a number on my developing adult teeth, leaving them sensitive and prone to all sorts of unhappy things. I feel like Set's telling me, 'This is what life has dealt you. And you have to deal with it. I'm going to keep throwing more at you all through this.'

And like Devo mentioned, there's the mental pain. And Set likes to send a lot of that :D: Really, when I've endured and taken it in stride, I feel like I made him proud by not letting the slightly 'not so healthy hand' I was dealt upset my life and stop me. After all, I've seen loved ones go through worse, and people deal with worse.

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(2) Do you use pain in ritual?  If so, have you seen a benefit from it?
I've never used it in ritual, but like I said, when I've come out the better for it, I feel like it's a fitting homage for Set.

Quote
(3) Is the use of ritual pain something in which you have any interest?  Why or why not?


Well, as far as self harm goes, I'm not interested. I've never been a fan of it. In my case, with my more or less high pain tolerance, it'd still be too distracting for ritual. But if Set ever asked me to do a ritual at 'that time of the month' or when I'm in extreme pain? I'd give it a shot.
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Morag

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Re: Pain as Offering/Ritual Work through Pain
« Reply #23 on: October 10, 2011, 10:12:15 pm »
Quote from: veggiewolf;23907
(1) If you work with deity, has pain ever been requested as an offering?  If so, did you offer it? If not, would you consider it?

(2) Do you use pain in ritual?  If so, have you seen a benefit from it?

(3) Is the use of ritual pain something in which you have any interest?  Why or why not?

 
It's...complicated. I've often used the pain of getting tattooed as a general sort of offering. I have two sets of ink for dead people (my dog and my grandmother), and the pain there was an offering to them. I have a tattoo for my mother, and I did it without pain killers out of respect for the pain she's been through in raising me. (Not that raising me in particular caused her pain; more the stuff she had to endure in order to give me a relatively decent home life.)

No deity has ever specifically said "I want you to offer pain in a ritual setting," but Brighid has made it clear that my chronic back pain is directly connected to Her mysteries, and when I work myself past my limits -- or, rather, what I think my limits are -- it's for Morrigan. No pain no gain, sort of thing.

I do want to start inducing pain in a ritual setting, as an offering or to enter a different state of consciousness. I was thinking of getting a flogger and doing some self-flagellation. It just hasn't happened yet because good floggers are expensive, and if I dedicate a flogger to ritual work it has to be a quality item.
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Darkhawk

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Re: Pain as Offering/Ritual Work through Pain
« Reply #24 on: October 10, 2011, 10:33:50 pm »
Quote from: Morag;24787
It's...complicated. I've often used the pain of getting tattooed as a general sort of offering.

 
My sis once said to me "If you're going to go through the blood and pain of it you should dedicate it to something."
as the water grinds the stone
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we shine like stars    - Covenant, "Bullet"

KittyVel

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Re: Pain as Offering/Ritual Work through Pain
« Reply #25 on: October 10, 2011, 10:44:42 pm »
Quote from: Morag;24787
It's...complicated. I've often used the pain of getting tattooed as a general sort of offering. I have two sets of ink for dead people (my dog and my grandmother), and the pain there was an offering to them.

 
I plan to do this for my best friend and for Anpu at some point.  :3  I've never been asked to inflict any sort of pain as an offering, though.
<3 Rest in peace, Christiana. I love you so much, and I miss you like crazy already. At least you\'re not hurting anymore...May you ascend. <3

sephira

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Re: Pain as Offering/Ritual Work through Pain
« Reply #26 on: October 11, 2011, 02:05:07 am »
Quote from: Morag;24787
I've often used the pain of getting tattooed as a general sort of offering.


 
I never thought of using the pain of a tattoo as an offering. It's genius really!
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Re: Pain as Offering/Ritual Work through Pain
« Reply #27 on: October 11, 2011, 05:59:04 pm »
Quote from: Darkhawk;24795
My sis once said to me "If you're going to go through the blood and pain of it you should dedicate it to something."


-nod- That's right on the mark, I think. I mean, I know there are people who take pain killers for tattoos, and I understand if they need to, but I just have personally never seen the appeal of it. It's a sacrifice. You are making part of your body sacred. Making sacredness will include some pain.


Quote from: sephira;24830
I never thought of using the pain of a tattoo as an offering. It's genius really!

 
Thank you. I'm sure I'm not the first who's said it, but I'm glad my words resonated with you nonetheless. :)
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Miss

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Re: Pain as Offering/Ritual Work through Pain
« Reply #28 on: October 11, 2011, 07:33:01 pm »
Quote from: veggiewolf;23907
We've discussed, in the past, offerings to deity that involved blood, or sacrifice (human and/or animal) but, as far as I can tell, we've not really delved into the offering of pain to the gods or the use of pain in ritual work.

Most often, pain, whether emotional or physical, is a signal that something is wrong that needs to be fixed. We are conditioned to accept that pain = bad/no pain = good and, for many, this model works well.  But for some, pain is a tool carefully applied to bring the user knowledge and growth.

Pain in ritual is accepted, so long as it is done by "outsiders".  There's a kind of "your-ritual-is-not-my-ritual-but-it-is-okay" mentality when talking about Kavandi ceremonies, or ball dances, or ritual body modification done in places we don't live.  But, when a seemingly "normal" person mentions using pain in ritual context, conversations cease.  People are scorned and vilified (see prior threads about Cauldron Farms and/or Raven Kaldera for case in point).  The idea that anyone could want to use pain in ritual, or as an offering, is too alien, too "out there"...and yet it happens on a daily basis around the world, and often closer to us than we think.

In order to remove the stigma, the topic must be discussed in an open way so that it can be shown, in the light, for what it is.  With that in mind, I am asking the following questions:

(1) If you work with deity, has pain ever been requested as an offering?  If so, did you offer it? If not, would you consider it?

(2) Do you use pain in ritual?  If so, have you seen a benefit from it?  

(3) Is the use of ritual pain something in which you have any interest?  Why or why not?

My answers will be in my next post.

 
I'm not a practicing pagan as of yet, but I'm very open to the possibility of using pain in ritual in the future.

I've read before that where meditation bring you down into deeper levels of mental state, pain takes you above normal consciousness. It's worth experiencing at least once for me.

Gore

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Re: Pain as Offering/Ritual Work through Pain
« Reply #29 on: October 14, 2011, 08:00:42 pm »
(3) Is the use of ritual pain something in which you have any interest?  Why or why not?

My answers will be in my next post.[/QUOTE]

I have much interest in such a thing actually. One small problem. I wouldn't know HOW exactly do to it. I would want to go through a physical pain to honour my ancestors and Andvare. I just don't know how. Would i have to chant a certain ritual? Would i have to do it in a certain manner? Would it be by blade or club kind of question i suppose.

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