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Author Topic: Native language in ritual?  (Read 2412 times)

Oíche

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Native language in ritual?
« on: June 23, 2013, 07:35:25 pm »
I've recently decided I want to include more Irish in my practice since I feel it has a greater connection to the Irish pantheon I work with. My grasp of Irish isn't particularly good ('learned' it in school, but my first language is English) so it will be a challenge :D:

Does anyone else use the language native to where ever the region your deities are from and do you feel it is important to the core of your practice or just something to add to or enhance it but not necessarily vitally important to it?
Also if you do, how much do you use, just a few terms or for the entirety of the ritual/practice, etc?
Hope to spark an interesting discussion :)
« Last Edit: June 23, 2013, 07:39:13 pm by Oíche »
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Sage

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Re: Native language in ritual?
« Reply #1 on: June 23, 2013, 08:20:30 pm »
Quote from: Cág;113422

Does anyone else use the language native to where ever the region your deities are from and do you feel it is important to the core of your practice or just something to add to or enhance it but not necessarily vitally important to it?
Also if you do, how much do you use, just a few terms or for the entirety of the ritual/practice, etc?
Hope to spark an interesting discussion :)

 
I've in the past used a bit of Irish (mostly in greeting and farewell-ing the gods) and a bit more of Ancient Greek in ritual. The Irish is cobbled together from other ritual scripts and some basics I've picked up from free online courses while the Ancient Greek comes from three semesters of college classes. I've lost much of my Greek but I can still read and write in the alphabet and could probably wrangle some simple prayers with the help of my textbooks.

The languages are often for my own benefit rather than the gods' -- I certainly hope they appreciate my small efforts to learn their home languages, but they help me to make the moment feel special and practiced. There's also the exotic element in there. While I understand what I'm saying, the fact that I'm not saying it in my mother tongue makes it special.
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Re: Native language in ritual?
« Reply #2 on: June 24, 2013, 01:07:28 am »
Quote from: Cág;113422
I've recently decided I want to include more Irish in my practice since I feel it has a greater connection to the Irish pantheon I work with. My grasp of Irish isn't particularly good ('learned' it in school, but my first language is English) so it will be a challenge :D:

Does anyone else use the language native to where ever the region your deities are from and do you feel it is important to the core of your practice or just something to add to or enhance it but not necessarily vitally important to it?
Also if you do, how much do you use, just a few terms or for the entirety of the ritual/practice, etc?
Hope to spark an interesting discussion :)
Yes I do! For about the last 2 years I have been learning Welsh. I've been adding it to my practice a little bit at a time. Like you I feel it's important to learn the native language and to use it. I feel it's a show of respect for the Gods and my ancestors! Welsh isn't the easiest language to learn for an English speaker, so it's still a work in progress!
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Gilbride

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Re: Native language in ritual?
« Reply #3 on: June 24, 2013, 07:24:07 am »
Quote from: Cág;113422
Does anyone else use the language native to where ever the region your deities are from and do you feel it is important to the core of your practice or just something to add to or enhance it but not necessarily vitally important to it?


I pray in Gaelic on a daily basis, usually the "Sloinntireachd Bride" (Scots Gaelic) and "Gabhaim Molta Bride" (Irish).

Oíche

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Re: Native language in ritual?
« Reply #4 on: June 24, 2013, 08:49:49 am »
Quote from: Sage;113424
I've in the past used a bit of Irish (mostly in greeting and farewell-ing the gods) and a bit more of Ancient Greek in ritual. The Irish is cobbled together from other ritual scripts and some basics I've picked up from free online courses while the Ancient Greek comes from three semesters of college classes. I've lost much of my Greek but I can still read and write in the alphabet and could probably wrangle some simple prayers with the help of my textbooks.

The languages are often for my own benefit rather than the gods' -- I certainly hope they appreciate my small efforts to learn their home languages, but they help me to make the moment feel special and practiced. There's also the exotic element in there. While I understand what I'm saying, the fact that I'm not saying it in my mother tongue makes it special.

 
I think having a different language in ritual makes it special for me too. I also think my gods will appreciate it more :)

Quote from: Cryfder;113436
Yes I do! For about the last 2 years I have been learning Welsh. I've been adding it to my practice a little bit at a time. Like you I feel it's important to learn the native language and to use it. I feel it's a show of respect for the Gods and my ancestors! Welsh isn't the easiest language to learn for an English speaker, so it's still a work in progress!


Fair play to you! I've seen a lot of Welsh in my classes and it looks so difficult! It's funny because our lecturer is American and he speaks Welsh and I think he speaks Irish too XD
 
Quote from: Gilbride;113460
I pray in Gaelic on a daily basis, usually the "Sloinntireachd Bride" (Scots Gaelic) and "Gabhaim Molta Bride" (Irish).

 
Oh lovely!
Up until now, the only prayers in Irish I could do was the Catholic 'Hail Mary' (we learn it in school) and the first line of the 'Our Father' XD
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ALiteraryLady

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Re: Native language in ritual?
« Reply #5 on: June 24, 2013, 10:02:08 am »
Quote from: Cág;113422
I've recently decided I want to include more Irish in my practice since I feel it has a greater connection to the Irish pantheon I work with. My grasp of Irish isn't particularly good ('learned' it in school, but my first language is English) so it will be a challenge :D:

Does anyone else use the language native to where ever the region your deities are from and do you feel it is important to the core of your practice or just something to add to or enhance it but not necessarily vitally important to it?
Also if you do, how much do you use, just a few terms or for the entirety of the ritual/practice, etc?
Hope to spark an interesting discussion :)

 
First of all, let me say that I think just about any time you can learn another language and incorporate it into a ritual is a beautiful thing. :D Sadly for me, my private Catholic high school didn't have any language classes in Old Norse, and instead I took four years of Spanish. I tested out of my language requirements in college, so I didn't continue with my Spanish language studies.

I'm trying to learn how to properly speak the names of the Norse Gods, along with certain titles that they held in the Eddas. I find that when I do get a deity's name correct, there seems to be less nervousness on my part, like when I'm helping a customer with a name I've never seen before, I take a stab at it while I'm ringing them out and they get all sorts of excited because I didn't completely butcher it.

I think if you are trying to quote a certain text or prose to your god, trying it out in their language would be sweet and considerate thing to do, but if you're just going to butcher it completely and you know it by heart in English (or your first language), just roll with that bad boy in your native tongue because they will be able to appreciate it. It's a wonderful gesture to try sometimes, and I don't believe that being able to do an entire ritual in your gods native tongue is a requirement, but it is thoughtful and I do believe they take notice.

Oíche

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Re: Native language in ritual?
« Reply #6 on: June 24, 2013, 01:50:13 pm »
Quote from: ALiteraryLady;113477
First of all, let me say that I think just about any time you can learn another language and incorporate it into a ritual is a beautiful thing. :D Sadly for me, my private Catholic high school didn't have any language classes in Old Norse, and instead I took four years of Spanish. I tested out of my language requirements in college, so I didn't continue with my Spanish language studies.

I'm trying to learn how to properly speak the names of the Norse Gods, along with certain titles that they held in the Eddas. I find that when I do get a deity's name correct, there seems to be less nervousness on my part, like when I'm helping a customer with a name I've never seen before, I take a stab at it while I'm ringing them out and they get all sorts of excited because I didn't completely butcher it.

I think if you are trying to quote a certain text or prose to your god, trying it out in their language would be sweet and considerate thing to do, but if you're just going to butcher it completely and you know it by heart in English (or your first language), just roll with that bad boy in your native tongue because they will be able to appreciate it. It's a wonderful gesture to try sometimes, and I don't believe that being able to do an entire ritual in your gods native tongue is a requirement, but it is thoughtful and I do believe they take notice.

 
I learned Spanish when I was in Secondary school too, I can read it fairly well but couldn't have a conversation in it :whis: XD

Old Norse names certainly are tricky! We dealt with quite a few in my Viking and Early Medieval Ireland modules- Icelandic looks a bit mad XD

I'm lucky in the sense that I did Irish in school because at least it taught me the correct pronunciation of the words :)
I was using a few greetings and farewells in Irish in recent months and I got a very happy response so that's why I want to step up my game with it :D
« Last Edit: June 24, 2013, 01:52:21 pm by Oíche »
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PhantomQueen

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Re: Native language in ritual?
« Reply #7 on: June 24, 2013, 05:12:39 pm »
Quote from: Gilbride;113460
I pray in Gaelic on a daily basis, usually the "Sloinntireachd Bride" (Scots Gaelic) and "Gabhaim Molta Bride" (Irish).

 
I'd love to learn Irish and take the time for my daily meditations and prayers in Irish.  It's still one of the top things on my Bucket List to do.  LIke others here, I think it's important to make that connection with the deities they honour.

Oíche

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Re: Native language in ritual?
« Reply #8 on: June 24, 2013, 08:10:39 pm »
Quote from: PhantomQueen;113521
I'd love to learn Irish and take the time for my daily meditations and prayers in Irish.  It's still one of the top things on my Bucket List to do.  LIke others here, I think it's important to make that connection with the deities they honour.

 
You should definitely give it a go :D
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ALiteraryLady

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Re: Native language in ritual?
« Reply #9 on: June 24, 2013, 10:20:48 pm »
Quote from: Cág;113502

I was using a few greetings and farewells in Irish in recent months and I got a very happy response so that's why I want to step up my game with it :D


I would take that as a good sign and step up your game indeed! Good luck.

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Native language in ritual?
« Reply #10 on: June 25, 2013, 01:53:40 am »
Quote from: Gilbride;113460
I pray in Gaelic on a daily basis, usually the "Sloinntireachd Bride" (Scots Gaelic) and "Gabhaim Molta Bride" (Irish).

Lovely! I would love to learn Gaelic - either Scots or Irish as both would be relevant to Brighid. It's the pronunciation that trips me up. How did you get past that?
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Gilbride

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Re: Native language in ritual?
« Reply #11 on: June 25, 2013, 07:41:12 am »
Quote from: rocquelaire;113585
Lovely! I would love to learn Gaelic - either Scots or Irish as both would be relevant to Brighid. It's the pronunciation that trips me up. How did you get past that?

 
It's not as hard as most people think. Gaelic spelling is almost 100% consistent, unlike English, so you can always tell how to pronounce a Gaelic word just by looking at it. You just have to get past the idea that certain letters are "supposed to" make certain sounds.

So, first I studied and memorized the rules, which does take a little effort. Then I bought an album of Gaelic songs with lyrics included. Then I sang along every time I listened to the CD for a few months. From that point on, pronouncing Gaelic was no problem. Now when I see a Gaelic word, I hear it in my mind just as easily as I would an English word.

The songs are the key! Anyone trying to learn Gaelic should listen to Gaelic songs on a daily basis.

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Re: Native language in ritual?
« Reply #12 on: June 25, 2013, 08:03:37 am »
Quote from: Cág;113422
Does anyone else use the language native to where ever the region your deities are from and do you feel it is important to the core of your practice or just something to add to or enhance it but not necessarily vitally important to it?
Also if you do, how much do you use, just a few terms or for the entirety of the ritual/practice, etc?


The Orthodox Church grew speaking Koine Greek, which is about halfway between classical and modern Greek. I'm putting serious effort into learning. I still pray in English, and suspect I always will, but I like being able to do services in the original. It's an amazingly economical language, something that translation consistently misses.
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Oíche

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Re: Native language in ritual?
« Reply #13 on: June 25, 2013, 05:42:36 pm »
Quote from: ALiteraryLady;113569
I would take that as a good sign and step up your game indeed! Good luck.

 
Thanks! :D:

Quote from: rocquelaire;113585
Lovely! I would love to learn Gaelic - either Scots or Irish as both would be relevant to Brighid. It's the pronunciation that trips me up. How did you get past that?

 
Here's a few tips :)
Wherever you see a 'fada' (i.e: an accent like 'á') over a letter you lengthen that sound in the word. For example 'bán' meaning 'white' is pronounced 'bawwn' not 'ban'. Also a 'bh' in a word is pronounced like a v. So the word 'bhfuil' (with the added f which changes it slightly) is pronounced 'will'.
Irish has a few pronunciation quirks but once you know them you should have less trouble pronouncing things correctly :)

Quote from: Chatelaine;113603
The Orthodox Church grew speaking Koine Greek, which is about halfway between classical and modern Greek. I'm putting serious effort into learning. I still pray in English, and suspect I always will, but I like being able to do services in the original. It's an amazingly economical language, something that translation consistently misses.

 
That's quite interesting! :D:
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Native language in ritual?
« Reply #14 on: June 25, 2013, 08:33:39 pm »
Quote from: Cág;113422
I've recently decided I want to include more Irish in my practice since I feel it has a greater connection to the Irish pantheon I work with. My grasp of Irish isn't particularly good ('learned' it in school, but my first language is English) so it will be a challenge :D:

Does anyone else use the language native to where ever the region your deities are from and do you feel it is important to the core of your practice or just something to add to or enhance it but not necessarily vitally important to it?
Also if you do, how much do you use, just a few terms or for the entirety of the ritual/practice, etc?
Hope to spark an interesting discussion :)

I have a hard time learning languages as my dyslexia affects my memory for foreign words (sounds and spellings). At the moment I'm trying to learn the first language of my partner's family, which is something I started after we got married, as a hospitality thing, and it's very important to me as a matter of honour. So it may not be directly a religious thing, but it has religious significance to me, if that makes any sense.

So, for now, my study of Irish has to go on hold, as I don't have time for learning two languages (and I think I'd get confused too). I speak a little Welsh (my grandmother was Welsh and I went to Cardiff University, so I picked some up) and a very few basic words in Irish. Eventually it's my ambition to be able to say some prayers in Irish, but it could be a while yet.
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