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Author Topic: Deepening Reconstructionism Locally: Your Take?  (Read 3917 times)

Jenett

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Re: Deepening Reconstructionism Locally: Your Take?
« Reply #30 on: April 11, 2012, 12:31:29 pm »
Quote from: SatSekhem;49730

I'll keep my eyes peeled, then just in case. I just did a quick search for mountain lions in Massachusetts and found an article related to the sighting of one in the Quabbin Reservoir area. (This is actually VERY close to where I live.) So, the next time I get conned into walking around there, I might just try to see if I can see a little something. Of course, just thinking that scares the crap out of me. The wildest creature I've ever seen, outside of a zoo, was a hawk in the sky once. So...


I'm in Maine, not *that* far north of you, and one of my co-workers swears she's seen a mountain lion.

The state wildlife services says they do not exist as a functional breeding population in the state, but sort of half-admits there might be escaped/abandoned pets. (People keep *bizarre* exotic pets: the two mountain lion siblings now in the Minnesota Zoo were cubs caught after their mother, who'd been a pet as well, was shot - she'd made it down to the Twin Cities metro, and was in one of the public parks being a threat to small children and dogs.)

One of the problems with mountain lions is that they have a huge range (100 miles or so square), and they travel fast, so even when there's a sighting, it can be amazingly hard to follow them from there.
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Juniperberry

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Re: Deepening Reconstructionism Locally: Your Take?
« Reply #31 on: April 11, 2012, 03:26:49 pm »
Quote from: cigfran;49507
In other words, you agree with the essence of the blog post.

Either that, or 'heathenry' has no meaning outside of its cultural source.


I read the blog and I do agree with the "essence" of it.

This is a conversation that's been going on at AL for awhile. Just because some of us may have European stock that doesn't give us anymore connection than a man in France saying he's a Southern Baptist because of family ties. Most of us are American heathens and we do/or need to worship locally.

Another conversation thats been going on over there is the discussion of leaving behind old gods and building new ones. The example being used is the continental earth goddess Nerthus and the English Erce. It's not always a matter of bringing your gods with you as it is discovering the ones relevant to your environment.

So, I think that was nagging me about the section I originally replied to. The blog mentions finding your gods in the current landscape (river, mountain peak), but sometimes you have to be open to the idea that its a whole NEW god, and not just local wights. And discovering those local deities that aren't in the lore or mythology is just as important to recon, if not moreso, then bringing old gods to a new land.

The AS kept their ancestral ties to Woden, but they also began a worship of Saxnot. The Germans had the Matronae, the Scandinavians had Skadi. Trying to place Odin in the desert (when he's a god unattachedbto landscape) might close you off to the distoct god that exists there instead.

A poster on AL has a Canadian "Nerthus" connected to a bog in his area. It isn't The Nerthus, it's a whole other mother earth.  They worship her, perform processions to that Goddess without trying to adapt her into an Americanized for of the Germanic one.

That's what I meant when I said the desert is it's own community that needs exploring for what it is. That's a living tradition *based* on reconstruction, and not just reconstructed Germanic heathenry on foreign soil.
The pace of progress in artificial intelligence (I’m not referring to narrow AI) is incredibly fast. [...] The risk of something seriously dangerous happening is in the five year timeframe. 10 years at most.--Elon Musk

I am in the camp that is concerned about super intelligence," [Bill] Gates wrote. "First the machines will do a lot of jobs for us and not be super intelligent. That should be positive if we manage it well. A few decades after that though the intelligence is strong enough to be a concern. I agree with Elon Musk and some others on this and don\'t understand why some people are not concerned."

cigfran

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Re: Deepening Reconstructionism Locally: Your Take?
« Reply #32 on: April 11, 2012, 03:54:06 pm »
Quote from: Juniperberry;49771
Just because some of us may have European stock that doesn't give us anymore connection than a man in France saying he's a Southern Baptist because of family ties. Most of us are American heathens and we do/or need to worship locally.


I am an American. I am not going to worship American gods. I am not First Nation, and I've been told in pretty certain terms that doing so is inappropriate. Moreover, I do not feel that relating to my actual forebears and their history is something to be so lightly set aside.

Quote from: Juniperberry;49771

Trying to place Odin in the desert (when he's a god unattached to landscape) might close you off to the distoct god that exists there instead.


If Odin is unattached to landscape, then I can see him anywhere.

Quote from: Juniperberry;49771
That's a living tradition *based* on reconstruction...


Reconstruction of what? Of a heathenry disconnected from history and applied like paint to wherever one finds one's self?

It seems to me that 'heathen' is increasingly disconnected from Asatru.

Juniperberry

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Re: Deepening Reconstructionism Locally: Your Take?
« Reply #33 on: April 11, 2012, 04:56:41 pm »
Quote from: cigfran;49775
I am an American. I am not going to worship American gods. I am not First Nation, and I've been told in pretty certain terms that doing so is inappropriate. Moreover, I do not feel that relating to my actual forebears and their history is something to be so lightly set aside.


There's a mountain past my backyard that my family and I really ...love. My daughter calls it Chocolate Mountain, and the rest of us have called it the Misty Mountains. My husband has been planning a trip to the peak for awhile, especially set for a misty morning, when he can sit among the clouds and be in some form of peaceful cummunion.

Sometimes, when I give offerings, its purposefully in the shadow of the mountain, for that mountain. There have been talks about how nice it would be to go "into the mountain" at death, to rest where all of our memories were made, and where our kids once laughed and played.

It's a god. I'm also certain it wasn't a recognized deity of the O'odham, but it's a local god to us. Like my ancestors, I can see gods residing on the mountain tops, I can imagine meeting them where earth meets sky. But not their local god, my own here, in this community of spirits.



Quote
If Odin is unattached to landscape, then I can see him anywhere.


Sure. But you can't see him everywhere. He's still just one memeber of a community. I feel like the recommendation is to see the god in the mountain as the desert version of the gods from Europe, when to me its distinctly its own personality.



Quote
Reconstruction of what? Of a heathenry disconnected from history and applied like paint to wherever one finds one's self?

It seems to me that 'heathen' is increasingly disconnected from Asatru.


Heathenry isn't a single thing, my local customs and folkways don't need to match up to the one in Iceland. It's a name applied to hundreds and hundreds of tiny tribes that each had their own customs, gods and ways.

There is nothing unusual about honoring local deities when my ancestors were doing it all along. Tribes along the Rhine had their own Matrons of a river, of a place right beyond the wood, of a lake. As mentioned, the Anglo Saxons found a new earth mother. In Germany Tuisto was the progenitor of the tribes, not Odin or Ymir.

There are plenty of modern heathens, recons, that have local deities aside from the Asatru lore ones. Because they 're living heathenry. They don't just worship the local deities from there and then away, they worship the local deities of here and now. As our ancestors, or examples, did. Perchta, Saxnot, Irminsul, Hulda, Erce,  Ing, Aueha, Harigast. All *not* in the Asatru book of lore.

How would Odin look in the desert? I don't know, find some war going on, an event inspired my divine madness, the instigator of a shamanic experience, or a one-eyed old man. What does trying to make the desert as spiritually alive as northern Europe have to do with him? Thor? Rain thunder, and lightning are the same wherever you go. These types of gods have little to do with finding divinity in the physical, living location. And if you try to impose that on something you sense, you might not see another god that's there.

(And I realize Odin was just an example used by the blogger, and I'm nitpicking that point, but there's no harm in looking at it a little closer, right?)
The pace of progress in artificial intelligence (I’m not referring to narrow AI) is incredibly fast. [...] The risk of something seriously dangerous happening is in the five year timeframe. 10 years at most.--Elon Musk

I am in the camp that is concerned about super intelligence," [Bill] Gates wrote. "First the machines will do a lot of jobs for us and not be super intelligent. That should be positive if we manage it well. A few decades after that though the intelligence is strong enough to be a concern. I agree with Elon Musk and some others on this and don\'t understand why some people are not concerned."

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Re: Deepening Reconstructionism Locally: Your Take?
« Reply #34 on: April 11, 2012, 07:02:57 pm »
Quote from: Juniperberry;49783
There's a mountain past my backyard...


All very interesting and I thank you.

But I have to ask again: what is being reconstructed? What's the point of the "homework"? What matter is the Lore, and the endless discussions of it? What matter, indeed, is history? If "folkway" is just local folkway, then how is heathenry distinct from any other way of looking at mountains and loving them?

Juniperberry

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Re: Deepening Reconstructionism Locally: Your Take?
« Reply #35 on: April 11, 2012, 09:40:01 pm »
Quote from: cigfran;49791


But I have to ask again: what is being reconstructed?

 
A folk religious viewpoint chosen based on ancestry, interest, etc.

Quote
What's the point of the "homework"?


A) Moving from a universal religious viewpoint to a folk religious viewpoint

B) Understanding the relationship between man and world from a folk religious viewpoint

C) Understanding the relationship between man and god in a folk religious viewpoint

D) Providing methods and practices for developing, expressing, strengthening, and sharing a living folk religion

Quote
What matter is the Lore, and the endless discussions of it?

 
Because its a puzzle piece with hints that can be used for comparative purposes, understanding folk religious viewpoints, for philosophical musings, and its fun.

Quote
What matter, indeed, is history?


Just because I live in the US doesn't mean that I'm not part of a family line. Reading about the historical events and influences that affected Germany helps me to understand them more and that helps me understand myself and today.

Quote
If "folkway" is just local folkway, then how is heathenry distinct from any other way of looking at mountains and loving them?


The US is just a collection of states, each with their own city traditions, festivals, and cities with their own soul and history. Federal law unites us as a nation but so does something else; ideals, viewpoint, a common ground on that's sacred to the American spirit?

I have my local gods, but I understand and relate with how Jimmy in WI sees and interacts with his local gods because its in the same spirit. Plus, heathens are tied together by some uber-wights, like Thor, and the body of mythology that we're all familiar with, or by the heroes that are a part of history.
The pace of progress in artificial intelligence (I’m not referring to narrow AI) is incredibly fast. [...] The risk of something seriously dangerous happening is in the five year timeframe. 10 years at most.--Elon Musk

I am in the camp that is concerned about super intelligence," [Bill] Gates wrote. "First the machines will do a lot of jobs for us and not be super intelligent. That should be positive if we manage it well. A few decades after that though the intelligence is strong enough to be a concern. I agree with Elon Musk and some others on this and don\'t understand why some people are not concerned."

SatSekhem

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Re: Deepening Reconstructionism Locally: Your Take?
« Reply #36 on: April 12, 2012, 04:30:05 pm »
Quote from: Jenett;49749
I'm in Maine, not *that* far north of you, and one of my co-workers swears she's seen a mountain lion.

The state wildlife services says they do not exist as a functional breeding population in the state, but sort of half-admits there might be escaped/abandoned pets. (People keep *bizarre* exotic pets: the two mountain lion siblings now in the Minnesota Zoo were cubs caught after their mother, who'd been a pet as well, was shot - she'd made it down to the Twin Cities metro, and was in one of the public parks being a threat to small children and dogs.)

One of the problems with mountain lions is that they have a huge range (100 miles or so square), and they travel fast, so even when there's a sighting, it can be amazingly hard to follow them from there.


Then maybe that's a good thing... The idea of seeing one scares me beyond belief. I love wild animals, but I prefer to see them in pictures in the wild as opposed to up close and personal. I understand that they are no more evil than a shark or bear, but the idea of catching up to an animal who would feel like I am encroaching... I can handle rabbits. They hop away.
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Valentine

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Re: Deepening Reconstructionism Locally: Your Take?
« Reply #37 on: April 12, 2012, 04:46:19 pm »
Quote from: SatSekhem;49916
Then maybe that's a good thing... The idea of seeing one scares me beyond belief. I love wild animals, but I prefer to see them in pictures in the wild as opposed to up close and personal. I understand that they are no more evil than a shark or bear, but the idea of catching up to an animal who would feel like I am encroaching... I can handle rabbits. They hop away.

 
I grew up in an area where cougars are pretty common--now and then I'd leave a friend's sleepover and wander into a police cordon, from the inside, because one had walked through people's backyards and they were trying to find it before someone got hurt--and they're interesting to deal with, yeah.  I never saw one up close, a wild one, anyway, though I did see a lot of coyotes over the years, but there was one instance where my friends and I were stalked by one, and let me tell you, being stalked by an apex predator on its turf is a humbling experience for a human.

Anyhow, as with sharks and bears and anything else, there's precautions you can take to mitigate risk.  You're right--ain't any evil to it.
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