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Author Topic: Broken Statues  (Read 7536 times)

Devo

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Re: Broken Statues
« Reply #15 on: August 13, 2011, 08:21:27 pm »
Quote from: monsnoleedra;12696
I wonder if the Egyptian gods / goddess really think that much about thier statuary.  If one looks to the various dynasties it was common practice to deface statuary and redo them with new ruler names upon them.  Heck look at Pahket - Bastet - Sehkmet their statuary was always being changed, especially in regards to having a cat head or lion head upon the human figure.

I do agree about having "Open" statues though, especially given that nothing says the divinity they are open for watches them all the time.  Myself I do not open them except during ritual then close them, but that is just me.

 
Yes, many statues were changed and altered to reflect the reigning king. But I don't know that most of the major statues were open- which is the distinction I'm making (which I believe you address in your second paragraph).

I was unaware that a statue could be formally opened (as they did in antiquity) and then closed again like that. Perhaps it is a newer practice, and not the one that they used 'way back'? Opening a statue in AE wasn't something to take lightly, and wasn't a wham bam type of ritual. Took quite a bit of time, AFAICT.

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monsnoleedra

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Re: Broken Statues
« Reply #16 on: August 13, 2011, 09:06:35 pm »
Quote from: Devo;12705
Yes, many statues were changed and altered to reflect the reigning king. But I don't know that most of the major statues were open- which is the distinction I'm making (which I believe you address in your second paragraph).

I was unaware that a statue could be formally opened (as they did in antiquity) and then closed again like that. Perhaps it is a newer practice, and not the one that they used 'way back'? Opening a statue in AE wasn't something to take lightly, and wasn't a wham bam type of ritual. Took quite a bit of time, AFAICT.

-Devo


Now I know a temple or sanctuary figure was opened and from some of the things I've read took up to years to fully open.  But those I think were almost always located in the inner most sanctum and open only to high level priests / priestess.  Yet the outer sanctum and garden figures I though were open and closed with the rituals and some what open to the public.

Though I also think it had to do with the sense that the inner sanctum statuary was deemed to be filled at all times though the statue might be deemed asleep when not being used (not the word I want but I'm drawing a blank at the moment).

I do think that some of the temples sold figurerines that were blessed and breathed into to give them life.  I vaguely recall such items being sold at Baubusta (sp) for Bastet that also served as blessings and were buried with the cat mummies.  Yet some were also possibly host bodies for the spirits of the mummified cats.

SatSekhem

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Re: Broken Statues
« Reply #17 on: August 13, 2011, 10:54:17 pm »
Quote from: Inucirrus;12680
True, though I still think that if you have a statue, whether Open or not, a deity could be channeled through it.. If it were broken, at least the energy associated with it would somehow be... broken? fractured? I personally wouldn't be comfortable with it.
 
This is the book I mainly followed, though guidance from other people and websites were consulted ^-^; Still rather new, still gathering information to use.
http://www.isisbooks.com/images/0738704385.jpg

 
That book is more Kemetic Wicca than anything else. And, honestly, I wasn't impressed with the rituals she has laid out.
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Devo

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Re: Broken Statues
« Reply #18 on: August 14, 2011, 01:01:16 am »
Quote from: monsnoleedra;12715
Now I know a temple or sanctuary figure was opened and from some of the things I've read took up to years to fully open.  But those I think were almost always located in the inner most sanctum and open only to high level priests / priestess.  Yet the outer sanctum and garden figures I though were open and closed with the rituals and some what open to the public.

Though I also think it had to do with the sense that the inner sanctum statuary was deemed to be filled at all times though the statue might be deemed asleep when not being used (not the word I want but I'm drawing a blank at the moment).

I do think that some of the temples sold figurerines that were blessed and breathed into to give them life.  I vaguely recall such items being sold at Baubusta (sp) for Bastet that also served as blessings and were buried with the cat mummies.  Yet some were also possibly host bodies for the spirits of the mummified cats.

 
Yes, the inner sanctum of a temple housed the open statue. But that statue is always opened. Once opened, AFAIK, it can't technically be closed. Now, I know that KO has ways to close their state shrines (and therefore the open statues within them) but whether that is an ancient practice or not, I don't know- and what happens to the statues in those shrines is beyond me as well. As of this point, I have never read of a statue being opened and closed regularly- as though it were a light switch. Sure, the god who has been invited into that statue could choose not to show up- but that doesn't mean that the statue was be turned off at the end of the rite. The god is in control for this, not us.

I have never heard of open statues being sold to people. I've heard of amulets, and things that were blessed, but not open statues. However, I can't say that I know a lot about that.

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monsnoleedra

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Re: Broken Statues
« Reply #19 on: August 14, 2011, 01:15:56 am »
Quote from: Devo;12751
Yes, the inner sanctum of a temple housed the open statue. But that statue is always opened. Once opened, AFAIK, it can't technically be closed. Now, I know that KO has ways to close their state shrines (and therefore the open statues within them) but whether that is an ancient practice or not, I don't know- and what happens to the statues in those shrines is beyond me as well. As of this point, I have never read of a statue being opened and closed regularly- as though it were a light switch. Sure, the god who has been invited into that statue could choose not to show up- but that doesn't mean that the statue was be turned off at the end of the rite. The god is in control for this, not us.

I have never heard of open statues being sold to people. I've heard of amulets, and things that were blessed, but not open statues. However, I can't say that I know a lot about that.

-Devo


Main ones I have read reference to were those that were used for annual or semi-annual ceremonies and rituals.  They would have life blown into them and open them up for the duration of the ceremony / ritual then closed after the event ended.  But in retrospect I am now not so sure it was opening them for each usage or purifying and cleansing them for each usage.  It is quite possible those were inner sanctum items that were brough out for the rituals then returned until the following year.

The main ones I can think of sold to the public would be the cat figurines that are associated to Bastet and Pahket.  Most times buried with the mummified cats, but like I said I vaguely recall those being open to receive the spirit of the cat (Sorry don't recall if it is the Ba, the Ra or ib that was supposed to go into it).

Cirrus13

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Re: Broken Statues
« Reply #20 on: August 14, 2011, 01:25:15 am »
Quote from: Devo;12693
I've read that book. Not very recon, which raises concerns for me about opening a statue. I question if people understand the gravity of having an open statue when books of that nature are the source. But to each their own.

-Devo

 
I would appreciate your recommendations, if you had time, in a PM. :)
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Devo

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Re: Broken Statues
« Reply #21 on: August 14, 2011, 10:47:19 am »
Quote from: Inucirrus;12755
I would appreciate your recommendations, if you had time, in a PM. :)


I'll just throw them up here- because it's easier. If you need a PM, I can.

The best book for rituals hands down is Reidy. Eternal Egypt covers how to open the mouth of a statue, and used rituals from back in the day- not new stuff. However, unless you're really really dedicated to that statue (serving it daily) I wouldn't recommend doing it. If Kemeticism is your thing, you'd do well to look at the posts in the Kemetic SIG.

Another book that I've heard is good for rituals is Wisner's.  He has... three books now? And I think they all have rituals of some sort in them. Kerry Wisner is his name, and there is 'The Eye of the Sun", "Song of Hathor", and one other whose name escapes me. There's discussion about him in the SIG as well.

Any questions about Kemetic rituals, I'd say would be best to be diverted to that group/area, so that this thread doesn't get derailed further (sorry!) XD

-Devo
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SatSekhem

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Re: Broken Statues
« Reply #22 on: August 14, 2011, 01:35:40 pm »
Quote from: Inucirrus;12755
I would appreciate your recommendations, if you had time, in a PM. :)

 
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Re: Broken Statues
« Reply #23 on: August 14, 2011, 02:01:35 pm »
Quote from: Devo;12791

Another book that I've heard is good for rituals is Wisner's.  He has... three books now? And I think they all have rituals of some sort in them. Kerry Wisner is his name, and there is 'The Eye of the Sun", "Song of Hathor", and one other whose name escapes me. There's discussion about him in the SIG as well.

 
I would note that Wisner tends to patch the gaps he sees in ancient rituals with REALLY SHITTY POETRY.
as the water grinds the stone
we rise and fall
as our ashes turn to dust
we shine like stars    - Covenant, "Bullet"

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