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Author Topic: I may invoke a djinn. We will all die or be imprisioned soon anyway  (Read 14022 times)

Nyktipolos

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Re: I may invoke a djinn. We will all die or be imprisioned soon anyway
« Reply #45 on: December 18, 2011, 06:17:35 pm »
Quote from: HeartShadow;35232
We KNOW there's unjustness and problems.  You're talking to people who've been on the front lines of activism.  Screaming "oh now it's me" makes you really look like the rest of the people that have been sidelined are irrelevant.

 
Your last bit is one of the major concerns I've heard of the Occupy protests, wherein the majority of the people there are white (but NOT all), and these issues only now are becoming major problems to the white population with things like homelessness, poverty, access to education, etc. Things that have been happening to people of colour for years, and have been actively fighting, but many of their work goes unnoticed.

(There are other concerns as well, but I'm not going to go into that here.)
"Though my soul may set in darkness, it will rise in perfect light;
I have loved the stars too fondly to be fearful of the night." - Sarah Williams
On the Rivers

yewberry

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Re: I may invoke a djinn. We will all die or be imprisioned soon anyway
« Reply #46 on: December 19, 2011, 01:54:09 am »
Quote from: Valentine;35312
"There isn't a way things should be.  There's just what happens, and what we do."


I like lots of non-linear things.  Reality is not among them.  Again, applause all 'round.

Brina

HeartShadow

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Re: I may invoke a djinn. We will all die or be imprisioned soon anyway
« Reply #47 on: December 19, 2011, 06:21:54 am »
Quote from: Nyktipolos;35313
Your last bit is one of the major concerns I've heard of the Occupy protests, wherein the majority of the people there are white (but NOT all), and these issues only now are becoming major problems to the white population with things like homelessness, poverty, access to education, etc. Things that have been happening to people of colour for years, and have been actively fighting, but many of their work goes unnoticed.

(There are other concerns as well, but I'm not going to go into that here.)

 
To some extent, "oh now it's me" makes sense.  I notice what happens across the street way better than across town, just because what's across the street I can't miss.

That said, that doesn't mean it's OKAY that we don't see or don't act.  It's a flaw, IMO, and one that I don't know where to start fixing.

treekisser

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Re: I may invoke a djinn. We will all die or be imprisioned soon anyway
« Reply #48 on: December 19, 2011, 09:12:18 am »
Quote from: catja6;35292
The Western ceremonial grimoire-based traditions are so, so much the products of the privileged classes -- middle/upper-class men with the funds, education, and leisure time necessary to even access the materials in the first place.  It's completely unsurprising that these magical systems are predicated on the idea that it's okay to summon and bind sentient beings  

 
Makes me think of Pratchett: when witches enter another creature's mind, they Borrow. When wizards enter another creature's mind, they dominate.

DerickVonD

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Re: I may invoke a djinn. We will all die or be imprisioned soon anyway
« Reply #49 on: December 19, 2011, 04:06:20 pm »
Quote from: catja6;35289
I can pretty much guarantee that's never going to happen to you.  The Powers That Be are scared of people like Valentine, who are doing real, important brick-by-brick community organization, because that's where change happens.  They are NOT scared of the type of melodramatic posturing you're exhibiting here.  The fact that you're actually invoking Nazi Germany, Stalinist Russia, and prison camps indicates that you care more about histrionics than in actually dealing with the real issues in any kind of concrete way.  

And again:  your answer here indicates that you don't give a toss about actual social justice or ethics -- "for the greater good" has been used countless times as a justification for exploiting and enslaving people, and the fact that you think that's okay makes you just as bad as the people you're angry at.

 What are you talking about? I never said anything about wanting to enslave anyone. MAybe it is not easy for you to grasp the way things are turning to shit in the US since your in Canada. I appreciate the input from other users, but please don't ever compare me to the same people I mentioned as tyrants before. I was not only concerned with my well being, but those I care about. Without the corrupt people running the US and the world it would be a better place. I have decided however to not invoke a Djinn. But to say "oh your selfish" because I'd like the world to actually be a better place is just stupid. I don't just hope the US gets better with the fall of these corrupt bankers, but that the world gets better as well.

Marilyn/Absentminded

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Re: I may invoke a djinn. We will all die or be imprisioned soon anyway
« Reply #50 on: December 19, 2011, 04:17:14 pm »
Quote from: DerickVonD;35423
I never said anything about wanting to enslave anyone.


How did you expect to get the Djinn to do what you want then?  Powerful non-human beings usually need to be compelled, entreated, or paid, especially if you don't have a pre-existing relationship.  I can't see a Djinn doing something just because you ask, and I don't think you would be willing to pay the price for favour if human sanctions scare you so much.

That leaves compulsion, which is enslavement.

Absent
I smile when I\'m angry.  I cheat and I lie
I do what I have to do to get by
But I know what is wrong, and I know what is right
And I die for the truth in my secret life

   In My Secret Life, L. Cohen

catja6

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Re: I may invoke a djinn. We will all die or be imprisioned soon anyway
« Reply #51 on: December 19, 2011, 09:08:46 pm »
Quote from: DerickVonD;35423
What are you talking about? I never said anything about wanting to enslave anyone. MAybe it is not easy for you to grasp the way things are turning to shit in the US since your in Canada. I appreciate the input from other users, but please don't ever compare me to the same people I mentioned as tyrants before. I was not only concerned with my well being, but those I care about. Without the corrupt people running the US and the world it would be a better place. I have decided however to not invoke a Djinn. But to say "oh your selfish" because I'd like the world to actually be a better place is just stupid. I don't just hope the US gets better with the fall of these corrupt bankers, but that the world gets better as well.

 

What Marilyn said.  Djinns by most accounts have far better things to do than waste their time with you, and are not going to just come when you call.  Djinns traditionally drive VERY hard bargains, and you've indicated over and over again that you're not interested in doing the the real work and taking the real risks of the real world, and the hard work of establishing a relationship with such an entity is apparently beyond you.  So the only way any of these beings are going to listen to you at all is if you force them to -- and that's enslavement.  The *only* people who manage to get djinns/etc. to do stuff without enslaving them are hardcore master magicians who, again, put in all the hard work and took all the risks in order to establish a rapport and gain their respect.  You're not willing to risk being jailed -- how the HELL do you expect to mess about with a djinn and come out with all your limbs intact?

And I'm an American who lives in Canada.  Assumptions are not your friends.

Asch

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Re: I may invoke a djinn. We will all die or be imprisioned soon anyway
« Reply #52 on: December 19, 2011, 10:14:20 pm »
Quote from: catja6;35474
What Marilyn said.  Djinns by most accounts have far better things to do than waste their time with you, and are not going to just come when you call.  Djinns traditionally drive VERY hard bargains, and you've indicated over and over again that you're not interested in doing the the real work and taking the real risks of the real world, and the hard work of establishing a relationship with such an entity is apparently beyond you.  So the only way any of these beings are going to listen to you at all is if you force them to -- and that's enslavement.  The *only* people who manage to get djinns/etc. to do stuff without enslaving them are hardcore master magicians who, again, put in all the hard work and took all the risks in order to establish a rapport and gain their respect.  You're not willing to risk being jailed -- how the HELL do you expect to mess about with a djinn and come out with all your limbs intact?

And I'm an American who lives in Canada.  Assumptions are not your friends.


All this and the excellent previous posts X 100.

Fact is change, real change, not just petty emotional venting requires work and sacrifice to achieve. Period.

Etheric1

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Re: I may invoke a djinn. We will all die or be imprisioned soon anyway
« Reply #53 on: December 20, 2011, 12:14:54 am »
Quote from: catja6;35474
What Marilyn said.  Djinns by most accounts have far better things to do than waste their time with you, and are not going to just come when you call.  Djinns traditionally drive VERY hard bargains, and you've indicated over and over again that you're not interested in doing the the real work and taking the real risks of the real world, and the hard work of establishing a relationship with such an entity is apparently beyond you.  So the only way any of these beings are going to listen to you at all is if you force them to -- and that's enslavement.  The *only* people who manage to get djinns/etc. to do stuff without enslaving them are hardcore master magicians who, again, put in all the hard work and took all the risks in order to establish a rapport and gain their respect.  You're not willing to risk being jailed -- how the HELL do you expect to mess about with a djinn and come out with all your limbs intact?

And I'm an American who lives in Canada.  Assumptions are not your friends.

 
I am LOVING your posts!  

I'll admit, I have very little knowledge about Djinns, although I have heard that they do not respond well to making demands.  And in all honesty, what free willed creature would respond well?  

I think it is prudent to be very cautious with trying to compel an entity of any kind to carry out something they might not be inclined to do in the first place.  I should think the stuff that can do major actions on this plane of existence is probably extremely intelligent and if it comes to manipulation games, many probably can play those games far better than most people.  Not to mention if they're pissed off at the notion, they may come to collect their debt at the most inconvenient time possible.  I'd rather establish a connection and relationship for awhile first before asking something huge.   I's approach this the same way I would a normal friendship with any person: be an honest friend before going about making demands.  

And if a person does elect to make a bargain, know what is going to be asked in return before getting into any deal.
No matter how dark the fur, the bunny is still fluffy. - Mel\'s Law of Dark Fluffs.
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Maps

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Re: I may invoke a djinn. We will all die or be imprisioned soon anyway
« Reply #54 on: December 20, 2011, 12:47:22 pm »
Quote from: DerickVonD;35423
What are you talking about? I never said anything about wanting to enslave anyone. MAybe it is not easy for you to grasp the way things are turning to shit in the US since your in Canada. I appreciate the input from other users, but please don't ever compare me to the same people I mentioned as tyrants before. I was not only concerned with my well being, but those I care about. Without the corrupt people running the US and the world it would be a better place. I have decided however to not invoke a Djinn. But to say "oh your selfish" because I'd like the world to actually be a better place is just stupid. I don't just hope the US gets better with the fall of these corrupt bankers, but that the world gets better as well.

 
The first step toward change is being able to critique yourself and see how you may have unintentionally contributed to the problem you're now trying to fix, because you can't fix it if you're still enabling it.

Take it from a Fellow American™ who is currently also fighting for civil rights, and is neck deep in student loan debt: Valentine is spot on, and you could learn a thing or two from hir.

DerickVonD

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Re: I may invoke a djinn. We will all die or be imprisioned soon anyway
« Reply #55 on: December 20, 2011, 03:10:13 pm »
Quote from: Maps;35552
The first step toward change is being able to critique yourself and see how you may have unintentionally contributed to the problem you're now trying to fix, because you can't fix it if you're still enabling it.

Take it from a Fellow American™ who is currently also fighting for civil rights, and is neck deep in student loan debt: Valentine is spot on, and you could learn a thing or two from hir.

Well thanks for the input everyone. I've decided just to ask my Gods for help. Yeah, yeah I know what you might say, the Gods can't handle every problem for us. I know this, but since I have a strong connection to the Aesir, I might as well try and I've been drawn to Tyr a lot lately, which only seems to be appropriate since he is the god of justice.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2011, 03:11:46 pm by DerickVonD »

Tana

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Re: I may invoke a djinn. We will all die or be imprisioned soon anyway
« Reply #56 on: December 20, 2011, 03:27:52 pm »
Quote from: DerickVonD;35563
which only seems to be appropriate since he is the god of justice.


You know how tricky a thing it is to call upon justice, don't you?
\'You had to repay, good or bad. There was more than one type of obligation.
That’s what people never really understood.….Things had to balance.
You couldn’t set out to be a good witch or a bad witch. It never worked out for long.
All you could try to be was a witch, as hard as you could.\'
Terry Pratchett \'Lords and Ladies\'

Confuzzled and proud. :p

Valentine

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Re: I may invoke a djinn. We will all die or be imprisioned soon anyway
« Reply #57 on: December 20, 2011, 03:35:03 pm »
Quote from: DerickVonD;35563
Well thanks for the input everyone. I've decided just to ask my Gods for help. Yeah, yeah I know what you might say, the Gods can't handle every problem for us. I know this, but since I have a strong connection to the Aesir, I might as well try and I've been drawn to Tyr a lot lately, which only seems to be appropriate since he is the god of justice.

 
Heaven forbid you put in any concrete effort yourself or lend a hand to any of the actual people you meet in a day.  You're busy being brave enough to make a real difference.
I'm sure the Aesir will be very impressed.

I do wish you the best of luck, in all sincerity.
"Let be be finale of seem." - Wallace Stevens, "The Emperor of Ice-Cream"
"There isn't a way things should be.  There's just what happens, and what we do."
- Terry Pratchett, "A Hat Full of Sky"

Asch

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I may invoke a djinn. We will all die or be imprisioned soon anyway
« Reply #58 on: December 20, 2011, 05:24:17 pm »
Quote from: Valentine;35568
Heaven forbid you put in any concrete effort yourself or lend a hand to any of the actual people you meet in a day.  You're busy being brave enough to make a real difference.
I'm sure the Aesir will be very impressed.

I do wish you the best of luck, in all sincerity.

I....I love you....

Valentine

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Re: I may invoke a djinn. We will all die or be imprisioned soon anyway
« Reply #59 on: December 20, 2011, 06:03:44 pm »
Quote from: Asch;35580
I....I love you....

 
Ha.  Tyr.  "Lend a hand."  I didn't even do that on purpose!
"Let be be finale of seem." - Wallace Stevens, "The Emperor of Ice-Cream"
"There isn't a way things should be.  There's just what happens, and what we do."
- Terry Pratchett, "A Hat Full of Sky"

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