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Author Topic: Folk magic vs. Generic neopagan magic  (Read 3035 times)

feriseeker

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Re: Folk magic vs. Generic neopagan magic
« Reply #15 on: May 11, 2013, 01:04:11 pm »
Quote from: Vale;108392
What are you looking for? Folklore or more of a "how to"?

 
if you could be so generous, i'll take both. but esp. the how to, as in techniques...the system.
im more familiar with the folklore, but, always eager to learn more.
i did find this book on folk magic in bretagne....but, it is as if so many things are
'disconnected', you get what i mean?

thank you. thank you.

feriseeker

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Re: Folk magic vs. Generic neopagan magic
« Reply #16 on: May 11, 2013, 01:09:01 pm »
Quote from: Sophia Catherine;108397


An online friend of mine is a Braucherei. He has strong issues with neopagans who try to take God out of their charms and spells. Braucherei is Christian magic - you can't un-Christian-ize it, because then it becomes entirely different. And arguably, it's less effective as a result.

 
rob chapman?
i like braucherei too. very nice. one day, i need to visit the usa for a longer time, and explore more.

Naomi J

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Re: Folk magic vs. Generic neopagan magic
« Reply #17 on: May 11, 2013, 01:20:23 pm »
Quote from: feriseeker;108405
rob chapman?
i like braucherei too. very nice. one day, i need to visit the usa for a longer time, and explore more.

 
No - but I've come across him online and he seems like a really interesting guy. Always willing to talk about his practices.
"We're all stories, in the end. Make it a good one, eh?"
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feriseeker

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Re: Folk magic vs. Generic neopagan magic
« Reply #18 on: May 11, 2013, 04:25:01 pm »
Quote from: feriseeker;108404
if you could be so generous, i'll take both. but esp. the how to, as in techniques...the system.
im more familiar with the folklore, but, always eager to learn more.
i did find this book on folk magic in bretagne....but, it is as if so many things are
'disconnected', you get what i mean?

thank you. thank you.

 
vale,
just to expand. i search for poppets, and, it seems that many books
have conflated poppets with voodoo dolls and dollies in spite of the fact poppets are not done exactly the same way as voodoo dolls and dollies.
so, i dont know where should i look to find info on poppets a l'european folk magic and, any other sources that show european folk magic techniques...
another example, where i come from, it is more common to asperge instead of fumigating with incense, i dont know if 'asperge' is the correct word. but, you make a bundle of herbs, dip in water and asperge....
i rarely find information on doing 'asperge'.
it is things like that im looking for...just, from the eu perspective.
the challenging part is the limitation. for example, how would one 'stop gossip' according to european folk magic? much of what i find is hoodoo-oriented, using the beef tongue. im not interested in that.
or, what about something to find a job? most of the time, one finds a chant in some folklore book, but, are there any specific techniques?
i hope this is clearer.
thanks again.

feriseeker

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Re: Folk magic vs. Generic neopagan magic
« Reply #19 on: May 11, 2013, 04:28:53 pm »
Quote from: Sophia Catherine;108406
No - but I've come across him online and he seems like a really interesting guy. Always willing to talk about his practices.

i dont know him. but, i do follow the online pagan world from time to time.
he was christian, became pagan, esp. wiccan, and then, left wicca and started studying braucherei, and received a huge negative backlash from the pagan community.
but, he seems like a good guy.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2013, 04:30:29 pm by feriseeker »

Vale

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Re: Folk magic vs. Generic neopagan magic
« Reply #20 on: May 11, 2013, 05:11:50 pm »
Quote from: feriseeker;108404
if you could be so generous, i'll take both. but esp. the how to, as in techniques...the system.
im more familiar with the folklore, but, always eager to learn more.
i did find this book on folk magic in bretagne....but, it is as if so many things are
'disconnected', you get what i mean?

thank you. thank you.

OK - many of the older books are really hard to find unless you are able to poke around local secondhand book dealers.

However Gemma Gary is writing some great books on Cornish Witchcraft. There is enough detail there to be able to practice a lot of her techniques and if you are able to read between the lines then so much the better.  Actually Troy are producing some really good books at the moment.

http://troybooks.co.uk/catalogue.html

Another interesting author is Radomir Ristic and his Balkan Traditional Witchcraft. Many of the practices in it are strikingly similar to ones I  have been using long before I read this.  They vary in detail but the underlying principle is the same. For example the Balkan witches use molten lead in water for divination.  I've seen this actually performed recently in Turkey and in the UK, lead has been used but egg white seems more common (cheaper and easier to obtain I guess but much less dramatic; molten lead hitting water is -   explosive!).

  http://www.amazon.co.uk/Balkan-Traditional-Witchcraft-Radomir-Ristic/dp/0979616859/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1368306268&sr=8-1&keywords=balkan+traditional+witchcraft
« Last Edit: May 11, 2013, 05:13:30 pm by Vale »

feriseeker

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Re: Folk magic vs. Generic neopagan magic
« Reply #21 on: May 11, 2013, 06:01:42 pm »
Quote from: Vale;108427
OK - many of the older books are really hard to find unless you are able to poke around local secondhand book dealers.

However Gemma Gary is writing some great books on Cornish Witchcraft. There is enough detail there to be able to practice a lot of her techniques and if you are able to read between the lines then so much the better.  Actually Troy are producing some really good books at the moment.

http://troybooks.co.uk/catalogue.html

Another interesting author is Radomir Ristic and his Balkan Traditional Witchcraft. Many of the practices in it are strikingly similar to ones I  have been using long before I read this.  They vary in detail but the underlying principle is the same. For example the Balkan witches use molten lead in water for divination.  I've seen this actually performed recently in Turkey and in the UK, lead has been used but egg white seems more common (cheaper and easier to obtain I guess but much less dramatic; molten lead hitting water is -   explosive!).

  http://www.amazon.co.uk/Balkan-Traditional-Witchcraft-Radomir-Ristic/dp/0979616859/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1368306268&sr=8-1&keywords=balkan+traditional+witchcraft

 
ive read both of those already. thanks for the help anyways.:)
i find them as being more like inventions-recreations-reconstructions of how "witchcraft would have been" or at least, modern systems of traditional witchcraft based on regional folklore and other personal ideas.

Vale

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Re: Folk magic vs. Generic neopagan magic
« Reply #22 on: May 11, 2013, 06:29:43 pm »
Quote from: feriseeker;108430
ive read both of those already. thanks for the help anyways.:)
i find them as being more like inventions-recreations-reconstructions of how "witchcraft would have been" or at least, modern systems of traditional witchcraft based on regional folklore and other personal ideas.


I'm not sure then what you are looking for still exists then - at least not in print. Most folk witchcraft was/is an oral tradition. It's roots are clear in Gemma Gary's work but nearly everything in print of the "how to" is contemporary reworking. We have lost an awful lot and there are there is plenty that is still not in the "public domain".

I was talking to someone a couple of weeks ago with a 16CE house who had found ritual items concealed in the walls of the oldest part of the house. Fascinating but that find was not "properly" documented at the time so it will always remain anecdotal. Evan now when witchcraft is no longer illegal in the UK people tend to be very reticent about talking about it.

feriseeker

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Re: Folk magic vs. Generic neopagan magic
« Reply #23 on: May 11, 2013, 07:32:15 pm »
Quote from: Vale;108431
I'm not sure then what you are looking for still exists then - at least not in print. Most folk witchcraft was/is an oral tradition. It's roots are clear in Gemma Gary's work but nearly everything in print of the "how to" is contemporary reworking. We have lost an awful lot and there are there is plenty that is still not in the "public domain".

well, maybe we are using different terminology then?
because you're talking about traditional witchcraft and im referring to folk magic, which goes beyond witchcraft, imo.
as to my comment on invention-reconstruction, ive talked to some cornish folks who have told me that gary's concept of the bucca is entirely modern, but that is another story altogether. and, ive been to eastern europe and consulted ristic's book with some folks i know, one of them, a woman whose grandmother does that same form of divination in serbia...
(she actually did a film on this and other folk magic beliefs. cant be found in the internet, unfortunately)
and, they had mixed reviews. i think that since traditional witchcraft has become the 'flavor of the day' there are some books that are inventing a lot of stuff in terms of the cosmogony and beliefs in an attempt to create 'the traditional witchcraft', esp. a traditional witchcraft that fits with the british traditional witchcraft paradigm even when in reality, it doesnt..and, this is not being scrutinized at all, that is just, my controversial and humble opinion.
at least, the folk magic in the books is very much consistent.

by the way, i was recommended a book...apparently it is a very good book, but in french. i searched to see if there were any english translations, alas. none.
i'll see if it is as good as some reviews state.
it does seem to contain some more modern stuff, but, most reviews state that the book is based on traditional magic.
the few negative reviews criticized the book because it contains 'black magic' (their words) and necromancy, and one review stated that it did not go deep enough. it is a compendium/almanac of sorts.
yes...in france, as in spain, latin america...still the black magic-white magic terminology exists. :whis:
« Last Edit: May 11, 2013, 07:37:55 pm by feriseeker »

Vale

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Re: Folk magic vs. Generic neopagan magic
« Reply #24 on: May 11, 2013, 08:07:23 pm »
Quote from: feriseeker;108437
well, maybe we are using different terminology then?

Very possibly.

I practice both a  modern  Cochronite style  "Traditional Witchcraft" and also the old folk "traditional " witchcraft practices of my cultural roots. They are definitely not the same thing but traditional has of course two distinctly different meanings in English and misunderstandings are pretty common. I would agree that Gary tends to blend them somewhat but I will happily use her techniques of folk magic ( such as the  knitting magic) which work without needing the Pwca.

feriseeker

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Re: Folk magic vs. Generic neopagan magic
« Reply #25 on: May 11, 2013, 08:40:41 pm »
Quote from: Vale;108438
Very possibly.

I practice both modern  Cochronite style  "Traditional Witchcraft" and also the old folk "traditional " witchcraft practices of my cultural roots.

this is me right there.

Quote
I would agree that Gary tends to blend them somewhat but I will happily use her techniques of folk magic ( such as the  knitting magic) which work without needing the Pwca.
makes sense. i hope that this book inspires me. if one can read enough folklore and books on folk magic, i think one can get a sense as to which folk magic practices are more common/consistent throughout the spectrum.
i dont mind being inclusive when it comes to the magic, but when it comes to the cosmogony, beliefs and spiritual practices, im narrow-minded, i must admit.
europe may be a continent but, basque is basque and finnish is finnish. there are too many differences. i respect british and northern european trad craft for example, however, there are some things that don't relate at all to basque witchcraft and folklore. and, you know...your traditions, home.  
i think for folks in the uk/britain and northern lands, it is easier to do the cross-pollination.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2013, 08:42:19 pm by feriseeker »

Naomi J

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Re: Folk magic vs. Generic neopagan magic
« Reply #26 on: May 12, 2013, 04:47:34 am »
Quote from: feriseeker;108437
well, maybe we are using different terminology then?
because you're talking about traditional witchcraft and im referring to folk magic, which goes beyond witchcraft, imo.


It's a fascinating thing to (try to) research, but it has to involve reconstruction. A good place to start is with the history. Some books I like on the subject: The Silver Bough, The Fairy-Faith in Celtic Countries (hard to read but worth it), The Wise Woman: Her Lives, Charms, Spells & Cures, and Popular Magic: Cunning Folk in English History are all good. General folk histories can be good, too - they will have less about magic, but some useful stuff all the same. Scottish Customs from the Cradle to the Grave and Irish Customs and Beliefs are two of those that I'm reading at the moment.

But yes, so much has been lost that it's all a case of reconstructing - and that usually has to involve some invention, to fill in gaps.
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