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Author Topic: Culturally speaking are all forms of magick/witchcraft philosophies different?  (Read 6747 times)

PrincessKLS

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Quote from: Faemon;169127
That's what I suggested, though. Why am I more depraved and morally bankrupt than you are? :p I promise you that I'm asking in all amusement and curiosity. Though this



partially answers it for me because as an inner alchemist, explosions are the best part because that means something is getting somewhere else very very fast.



To the title question: yes, philosophies are wildly irreconcilably and inseparably SO VERY different that I almost never know what two magicians are talking about anymore. There are so many more other magics than the type that you've been reading about, PrincessKLS.

 


Okay so there some good books and websites on those other magicks and philosophies. Recently I got some interesting Llewellyn books. One has a background of fairy tale lore with spells, another is a datebook. But I get that Llwewellyn is Wiccan, however, in his books he doesn't across as dogmatic or so that's a "no-no" spell.
PrincessKLS

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Quote from: PrincessKLS;169194
But I get that Llwewellyn is Wiccan, however, in his books he doesn't across as dogmatic or so that's a "no-no" spell.

 
"He"?  Llewellyn is a publisher, not a person.

(Do you mean "The Llewellyn Witches' Datebook", which is compiled from multiple different authors?)
as the water grinds the stone
we rise and fall
as our ashes turn to dust
we shine like stars    - Covenant, "Bullet"

Ponder

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Quote from: PrincessKLS;169194
Okay so there some good books and websites on those other magicks and philosophies. Recently I got some interesting Llewellyn books. One has a background of fairy tale lore with spells, another is a datebook. But I get that Llwewellyn is Wiccan, however, in his books he doesn't across as dogmatic or so that's a "no-no" spell.


For Ceremonial Magic type stuff, you might look at this thread.

Sage

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Quote from: PrincessKLS;169194
in his books he doesn't across as dogmatic or so that's a "no-no" spell.

 
Is there a reason you're equating ethical standards with dogma?
Maker, though the darkness comes upon me,
I shall embrace the light. I shall weather the storm.
I shall endure.
What you have created, no one can tear asunder.

-Canticle of Trials 1:10

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PrincessKLS

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Quote from: Darkhawk;169198
"He"?  Llewellyn is a publisher, not a person.

(Do you mean "The Llewellyn Witches' Datebook", which is compiled from multiple different authors?)

 

Oh yes.
PrincessKLS

PrincessKLS

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Quote from: Sage;169204
Is there a reason you're equating ethical standards with dogma?

 
I always felt like they were tied together. Especially you grow up in a conservative Christian denomination.
PrincessKLS

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Quote from: PrincessKLS;169231
I always felt like they were tied together. Especially you grow up in a conservative Christian denomination.

 
But this suggest that only people who are dogmatic have ethical standards, which is clearly not true
Knowing when to use a shovel is what being a witch is all about. Nanny Ogg, Witches Abroad

Sage

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Quote from: PrincessKLS;169231
I always felt like they were tied together. Especially you grow up in a conservative Christian denomination.

 
Most people have ethical standards because most people have an opinion on how one should act - even if we're not in agreement about what those standards are or why we have them. Ethics can come from many places and it's a mistake to think they only come from bad sources of dogma.
Maker, though the darkness comes upon me,
I shall embrace the light. I shall weather the storm.
I shall endure.
What you have created, no one can tear asunder.

-Canticle of Trials 1:10

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Faemon

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Quote from: Sage;169235
Ethics can come from many places and it's a mistake to think they only come from bad sources of dogma.

I personally understand the irritation at how-to books that spiral into why-not-to if it claims to be a how-to, if it's not written by my mother or the clergy of my faith but someone who condescends to presume that either nobody taught me Right From Wrong or I wouldn't figure it out myself.

The OP's main concern seems to be not where ethics come from, but where they get to, and if a declaration of ethics gets between the OP and the goal, then the question becomes, "Which culture/philosophy will just let me do the thing already??" Or, not "let" so much as guided through the procedure to do the thing. So, it's accepting the security provided by the practices of a culture but rejecting the inevitable ground rules to ease the challenges of coexistence within that culture. (PrincessKLS, correct me if I'm mistaken in reading this.)

I think the matter is the OP wanting only the procedural part of magic, but somehow tying that to ethics, resulting in pursuing spaces inevitably conducive to generating and articulating ethics...and then complaining about all the ethics in here. That's just as irritating as how-to-but-here's-why-not to a 10/90 ratio.


Ethics do vary not only between individuals and groups, but over time as well. There's apparently an avenger-deity of unrequited love, Anteros, which I think is strange because it's not as if it's morally wrong and vengeance-worthy not to return romantic love.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2015, 08:20:30 pm by Faemon »
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Quote from: PrincessKLS;168985
Like for example is the Wiccan rule, "If ye harm none..." universal in any way?
Can all magick backfire, despite your belief system of what is correct and what isn't?

 
Can it backfire?  Yes.  That is part of the purpose of first casting a protective zone, it'll deflect from a mis-casting.

There isn't a universal "harm none" code (that is actually a pretty modern, western addition).  African "Witch-Doctors", while primarily using their knowledge to heal and protect, have no strictures against going on the attack, and no "laws of return".  Magick (at least, my definition of it) is simply energy directed with purpose, intent is partially what determines the "Black, White or Grey" qualities, the end result completes that equation.  For those that believe in the "insta-karma" of laws of return, they do occur.  That is because it is a part of the belief of the person engaging in the energy manipulation.  In a sense, it's like adding in an additional script of program code designed to effect the user/caster.  If one doesn't believe in such laws, they do not apply.

The rules of magick are as varied as the cultures they come from.  No one has either found any universal laws or guides or been able to trace back the various traditions to a single, universal tradition.

veggiewolf

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Quote from: Darkstone;169312
...African "Witch-Doctors", while primarily using their knowledge to heal and protect, have no strictures against going on the attack, and no "laws of return".  ...

What's an African "Witch-Doctor"?
« Last Edit: January 15, 2015, 04:39:03 pm by veggiewolf »
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