collapse

Author Topic: Working with Trickster Energy - Ideas?  (Read 3643 times)

Sefiru

  • Staff
  • *
  • Join Date: Nov 2013
  • Location: In the walls
  • Posts: 1667
  • Country: ca
  • Total likes: 326
    • View Profile
Re: Working with Trickster Energy - Ideas?
« Reply #15 on: March 30, 2017, 06:26:10 pm »
Quote from: Something;204433
Many times I have read beginners who are set on working with tricksters mostly loki because they think he's just a happy go lucky playful type that just likes to make harmless jokes and so on, I am sure this does not apply to too many but just make sure you know that it doesn't end there,



But hopefully people won't go to the extent of causing physical harm to others, remember the story of baldur.... same rules apply to us unfortunately.. either way I wish you luck


Strong enough to help is strong enough to hurt. Applies just as much to deities as to herbs.

In any case I don't work with Loki but with Set, whose major trait (relevant to this discussion) is breaking what needs to be broken. The possibility of mayhem does not disturb me; it's more of a selling point IMO.

Jack

  • Adept Member
  • ********
  • Join Date: Apr 2012
  • Location: Cascadia
  • Posts: 3168
  • Country: us
  • Total likes: 90
    • View Profile
    • Jack of Many Trades
  • Religion: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • Preferred Pronouns: he/him/his
Re: Working with Trickster Energy - Ideas?
« Reply #16 on: March 30, 2017, 07:10:48 pm »
Quote from: Sefiru;204446
Strong enough to help is strong enough to hurt. Applies just as much to deities as to herbs.

In any case I don't work with Loki but with Set, whose major trait (relevant to this discussion) is breaking what needs to be broken. The possibility of mayhem does not disturb me; it's more of a selling point IMO.
It's not a bug, it's a feature?

(Loki as hacker, Odin as the sysadmin trying to keep him out but appreciating that he keeps the system a little more secure?)

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk
Hail Mara, Lady of Good Things!
"The only way to cope with something deadly serious is to try to treat it a little lightly." -Madeleine L'Engle

AsraiDouglas

  • Apprentice
  • ***
  • Join Date: Nov 2016
  • Posts: 40
  • Total likes: 0
    • View Profile
Re: Working with Trickster Energy - Ideas?
« Reply #17 on: March 30, 2017, 07:35:21 pm »
Quote from: Jack;204451
It's not a bug, it's a feature?

(Loki as hacker, Odin as the sysadmin trying to keep him out but appreciating that he keeps the system a little more secure?)


I'm not sure that a more perfect contemporary analogy has ever been written.

Darkhawk

  • Senior Staff
  • *
  • Join Date: Jun 2011
  • Posts: 4803
  • Country: us
  • Total likes: 682
    • View Profile
    • Suns in her Branches
  • Religion: An American Werewolf in the Akhet; Kemetic; Feri; Imaginary Baltic Heathen; Discordian; CoX; Etc.
  • Preferred Pronouns: any of he, she, they
Re: Working with Trickster Energy - Ideas?
« Reply #18 on: March 31, 2017, 10:05:35 am »
Quote from: Tom;204442
Not like Odin's any safer tbh. No god is "safe".

 
Just hanging this here -

Worth keeping in mind that the OP is explicitly not talking about dealing with gods.  (Not, of course, that those of us with divine trickster experience don't have thoughts to offer, but.)

I would argue that entities with trickster aspects (Odin definitely included) are less "safe" than most, mind.  Given the nature of the trickster to subvert, upend, challenge, exploit, or counterpoint the status quo, there's intrinsically that aspect of "the stable and normal cannot be depended on here".

I have found, as I think about it, though, that just because tricksters do not give two shakes about the status quo (not all of them are out to subvert it; some just consider it irrelevant) doesn't mean that they don't have patterns or even a code of their own.  They're just different.  Sometimes a bit orange and blue morality, but there are rules in Fairy (and some interpretations of the Courts, in those folklores where they exist, are about how the fairies deal with rules), and you can count on Set to poke things to show up their weaknesses and Coyote to do world-creating pratfalls.  Etc.

Everything has a nature, in other words, and just because that nature is not in alignment with easy status quoing does not say anything else about what that nature is.
as the water grinds the stone
we rise and fall
as our ashes turn to dust
we shine like stars    - Covenant, "Bullet"

Something

  • Apprentice
  • ***
  • Join Date: Mar 2017
  • Posts: 49
  • Total likes: 0
    • View Profile
Re: Working with Trickster Energy - Ideas?
« Reply #19 on: March 31, 2017, 05:49:09 pm »
Quote from: Tom;204442
Not like Odin's any safer tbh. No god is "safe". And Loki actually doesn't hurt people for no reason whatsoever. Even in the Baldr story, he was showing that stuff happens regardless of how many protections have been put into place to protect oneself. Sometimes parents suffer through the death of their children and honestly, there's more than one version of Baldur's death and Loki isn't responsible in every version.

(So many people forget about Odin's trickster aspect.)

It is true that Loki doesn't hurt people for No reason, it's just some of us draw the line at hurting others for our own amusement, which he has and does do, because I have witnessed it myself even if you choose not to believe the stories about him, I have also seen him do good. But regardless of what way you read the baldur story most stories involving him are almost always causing problems, the times he helped was usually because he caused the initial problems in the first place, what dark hawk also said is very true all deities have the ability to both help or harm just like us, its just some have more chance of causing problems than others which most tricksters are known for not just loki, saying that there's no difference they all have the same risk is incorrect...If that was the case then it wouldn't make any difference who you interact with... That's like saying there's as much risk of having a pet lion as a pet cat... I would also never take anything as written as 100% accurate either, best to use them as guidance and find the real answers personally, as I have learned things that are not even in eddas, anyway if you are set on working with tricksters I wish you well and good luck..
« Last Edit: March 31, 2017, 05:51:17 pm by Something »

Tom

  • Master Member
  • ******
  • Join Date: Jan 2013
  • Posts: 399
  • Total likes: 2
    • View Profile
    • http://serpentinetom.wordpress.com
Re: Working with Trickster Energy - Ideas?
« Reply #20 on: March 31, 2017, 06:19:32 pm »
Quote from: Something;204480
It is true that Loki doesn't hurt people for No reason, it's just some of us draw the line at hurting others for our own amusement, which he has and does do, because I have witnessed it myself even if you choose not to believe the stories about him, I have also seen him do good. But regardless of what way you read the baldur story most stories involving him are almost always causing problems, the times he helped was usually because he caused the initial problems in the first place, what dark hawk also said is very true all deities have the ability to both help or harm just like us, its just some have more chance of causing problems than others which most tricksters are known for not just loki, saying that there's no difference they all have the same risk is incorrect...If that was the case then it wouldn't make any difference who you interact with... That's like saying there's as much risk of having a pet lion as a pet cat... I would also never take anything as written as 100% accurate either, best to use them as guidance and find the real answers personally, as I have learned things that are not even in eddas, anyway if you are set on working with tricksters I wish you well and good luck..

 
Or you could be just incompatible with Loki? That's a perfectly acceptable thing you know. A lot of people are incompatible when it comes to working with certain deities or energies and there are people who don't really get along with tricksters or tricksters of a certain kind. And honestly, I don't think the difference is really that of level of risk but rather kind of risk.

So it's more like a wild lion verses a wild cheetah.

Something

  • Apprentice
  • ***
  • Join Date: Mar 2017
  • Posts: 49
  • Total likes: 0
    • View Profile
Re: Working with Trickster Energy - Ideas?
« Reply #21 on: April 01, 2017, 10:13:57 am »
Quote from: Tom;204484
Or you could be just incompatible with Loki? That's a perfectly acceptable thing you know. A lot of people are incompatible when it comes to working with certain deities or energies and there are people who don't really get along with tricksters or tricksters of a certain kind. And honestly, I don't think the difference is really that of level of risk but rather kind of risk.

So it's more like a wild lion verses a wild cheetah.

 
I will certainly admit to not being compatible with loki, but if I could also ask anyone else if you have worked with other tricksters apart from loki  because as much trouble he caused the jokes and partying I did enjoy, are there any tricksters that are fun but have less tendency to go as far as causing harm as this was the point I had to try and leave him behind.. loki is the only trickster I have come across.. Many thanks

Tom

  • Master Member
  • ******
  • Join Date: Jan 2013
  • Posts: 399
  • Total likes: 2
    • View Profile
    • http://serpentinetom.wordpress.com
Re: Working with Trickster Energy - Ideas?
« Reply #22 on: April 01, 2017, 02:42:27 pm »
Quote from: Something;204509
I will certainly admit to not being compatible with loki, but if I could also ask anyone else if you have worked with other tricksters apart from loki  because as much trouble he caused the jokes and partying I did enjoy, are there any tricksters that are fun but have less tendency to go as far as causing harm as this was the point I had to try and leave him behind.. loki is the only trickster I have come across.. Many thanks

 
...May I ask you why your main desire is to find a trickster deity who is "fun"? I don't really see that as a character trait that I would personally look for when I'm looking to work with a deity. All deities I know with trickster type qualities tend to be very good at revealing things you would rather not deal with and I include my primary deity Veles in that.

Zin Aeon

  • Apprentice
  • ***
  • Join Date: Aug 2014
  • Posts: 26
  • Total likes: 0
    • View Profile
    • https://broomclosetjournals.wordpress.com/
Re: Working with Trickster Energy - Ideas?
« Reply #23 on: April 01, 2017, 03:51:42 pm »
Quote from: Tom;204519
...May I ask you why your main desire is to find a trickster deity who is "fun"? I don't really see that as a character trait that I would personally look for when I'm looking to work with a deity. All deities I know with trickster type qualities tend to be very good at revealing things you would rather not deal with and I include my primary deity Veles in that.

 
I am honestly and truly loving every minute of this discussion.

It's an interesting take on an old debate about trickster gods and is rather fascinating.

I am curious, though, because this always sparked another debate: if we are against "harm" being done by a trickster, how do we define "harm?"  What if, in order for progress to be made, harm becomes necessary?

What was done to me may very well have been "harm" but was needed and, in the end, beneficial.  (I function much better with swift kicks in the rear than with gentle persuasion.)  I've never really wrapped my mind around the "harm none" concept, so it is a bit harder for me to understand.

Darkhawk

  • Senior Staff
  • *
  • Join Date: Jun 2011
  • Posts: 4803
  • Country: us
  • Total likes: 682
    • View Profile
    • Suns in her Branches
  • Religion: An American Werewolf in the Akhet; Kemetic; Feri; Imaginary Baltic Heathen; Discordian; CoX; Etc.
  • Preferred Pronouns: any of he, she, they
Re: Working with Trickster Energy - Ideas?
« Reply #24 on: April 01, 2017, 08:44:35 pm »
Quote from: Zin Aeon;204523
I've never really wrapped my mind around the "harm none" concept, so it is a bit harder for me to understand.

 
Don't worry, that's probably because the "harm none" concept is unrelentingly and unredeemably stupid.
as the water grinds the stone
we rise and fall
as our ashes turn to dust
we shine like stars    - Covenant, "Bullet"

Tom

  • Master Member
  • ******
  • Join Date: Jan 2013
  • Posts: 399
  • Total likes: 2
    • View Profile
    • http://serpentinetom.wordpress.com
Re: Working with Trickster Energy - Ideas?
« Reply #25 on: April 01, 2017, 10:38:34 pm »
Quote from: Zin Aeon;204523
I am honestly and truly loving every minute of this discussion.

It's an interesting take on an old debate about trickster gods and is rather fascinating.

I am curious, though, because this always sparked another debate: if we are against "harm" being done by a trickster, how do we define "harm?"  What if, in order for progress to be made, harm becomes necessary?

What was done to me may very well have been "harm" but was needed and, in the end, beneficial.  (I function much better with swift kicks in the rear than with gentle persuasion.)  I've never really wrapped my mind around the "harm none" concept, so it is a bit harder for me to understand.

 
I'm much the same way re: swift kicks in the behind myself. And I've found that anything involving tricksters involves the use of loopholes or cleverly using your blind spots in such a way that you become more aware of them. They also are very good at going "okay, you can do this, but you have to deal with the consequences" and I'm the kind of person who has to apparently mess up epically sometimes if I'm to learn anything.

For me, working with a trickster type deity is more about the process of engaging with and being challenged in the way I think. It's about that reminder that there's always more to learn and things one can always do better and that no one is perfect.

Jack

  • Adept Member
  • ********
  • Join Date: Apr 2012
  • Location: Cascadia
  • Posts: 3168
  • Country: us
  • Total likes: 90
    • View Profile
    • Jack of Many Trades
  • Religion: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • Preferred Pronouns: he/him/his
Re: Working with Trickster Energy - Ideas?
« Reply #26 on: April 02, 2017, 04:17:43 am »
Quote from: Zin Aeon;204523
I am curious, though, because this always sparked another debate: if we are against "harm" being done by a trickster, how do we define "harm?"  What if, in order for progress to be made, harm becomes necessary?

 
Here's my personal best illustration of that: I was diagnosed with breast cancer. That's pretty damn harmy. Except... it meant I was able to get top surgery much sooner and more easily than I would have going through the insurance system for gender dysphoria alone.

That doesn't mean I'm glad I had cancer, and yet... it's complicated.
Hail Mara, Lady of Good Things!
"The only way to cope with something deadly serious is to try to treat it a little lightly." -Madeleine L'Engle

Something

  • Apprentice
  • ***
  • Join Date: Mar 2017
  • Posts: 49
  • Total likes: 0
    • View Profile
Re: Working with Trickster Energy - Ideas?
« Reply #27 on: April 04, 2017, 01:03:17 pm »
Quote from: Darkhawk;204537
Don't worry, that's probably because the "harm none" concept is unrelentingly and unredeemably stupid.

 
I will certainly agree with you on that darkhawk, I see life as trying to master the correct actions for each situation in order to become a completely balanced person, there are going to be times where someone is crying and needs a hug, but there will also be times where you come across some a@! ho@! in a bar that deserves to be floored... its all about the reasons for me not the actions, hurting someone for a laugh to me is the wrong reason to hurt someone but that's just my opinion.. I was just curious if anyone has dealt with any other trickster type entities and if so how did they compare to loki. I wasn't even aware of any others because I only follow the norse..

Darkhawk

  • Senior Staff
  • *
  • Join Date: Jun 2011
  • Posts: 4803
  • Country: us
  • Total likes: 682
    • View Profile
    • Suns in her Branches
  • Religion: An American Werewolf in the Akhet; Kemetic; Feri; Imaginary Baltic Heathen; Discordian; CoX; Etc.
  • Preferred Pronouns: any of he, she, they
Re: Working with Trickster Energy - Ideas?
« Reply #28 on: April 04, 2017, 02:03:13 pm »
Quote from: Something;204613
I was just curious if anyone has dealt with any other trickster type entities and if so how did they compare to loki.

 
You might have noticed that the thread started with discussion of trickster entities who are not gods at all, and a few people have mentioned divine or sometimes-considered-divine tricksters since then.

If you want a thread specifically comparing Loki to other tricksters, perhaps you could start one?
as the water grinds the stone
we rise and fall
as our ashes turn to dust
we shine like stars    - Covenant, "Bullet"

Emma Eldritch

  • Staff
  • *
  • Join Date: May 2012
  • Posts: 1265
  • Country: 00
  • Total likes: 67
    • View Profile
    • https://rocknrollwitch.blogspot.ca/
Re: Working with Trickster Energy - Ideas?
« Reply #29 on: April 09, 2017, 11:07:12 pm »
Quote from: Something;204509
I will certainly admit to not being compatible with loki, but if I could also ask anyone else if you have worked with other tricksters apart from loki  because as much trouble he caused the jokes and partying I did enjoy, are there any tricksters that are fun but have less tendency to go as far as causing harm as this was the point I had to try and leave him behind.. loki is the only trickster I have come across.. Many thanks

 
Yeah, uh, if you only want laughter and partying? Go find a spirit or deity of awesome keggers. Tricksters will fuck you up, dude. It's their job.

Tags:
 

Related Topics

  Subject / Started by Replies Last post
13 Replies
4499 Views
Last post June 27, 2013, 07:45:08 am
by Tana
9 Replies
1457 Views
Last post April 12, 2013, 12:48:05 pm
by blackwolf696
18 Replies
4275 Views
Last post June 20, 2014, 10:16:05 pm
by Tay Redgrave
9 Replies
1261 Views
Last post January 30, 2015, 08:25:01 pm
by Redfaery
10 Replies
795 Views
Last post October 01, 2018, 02:06:42 pm
by EnderDragonFire

* Who's Online

  • Dot Guests: 20
  • Dot Hidden: 0
  • Dot Users: 0

There aren't any users online.

* Please Donate!

The Cauldron's server is expensive and requires monthly payments. Please become a Bronze, Silver or Gold Donor if you can. Donations are needed every month. Without member support, we can't afford the server.

* In Memoriam

Chavi (2006)
Elspeth (2010)
Marilyn (2013)

* Cauldron Staff

Co-Hosts:
LyricFox & Randall

Senior Staff:
Darkhawk

Message Board Staff
Board Coordinator:
Sunflower

Assistant Board Coordinator:
Aster Breo

Board Staff:
Allaya, Chatelaine, HarpingHawke, Jenett, Morag, rocquelaire, Sefiru

Discord Chat Staff
Chat Coordinator:
Morag

Reserve Staff:
Aisling

Cauldron Council:
Bob, Catja, Emma-Eldritch, Fausta, Jubes, Kelly, Phouka, Sperran, Star, Steve, Tana

Cauldron Assistants
[Non-Staff Positions]

Site Assistants
[Non-Staff Positions]
Webmaster:
Randall