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Author Topic: The subtle dimension  (Read 1473 times)

futureseek

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The subtle dimension
« on: November 16, 2013, 06:02:51 pm »
In my experience, when a spell is successful, it has involved subtle perception and subtle actions.

This might or might not be the case for everyone of course, and any method which works is helpful.

In any case, in what I might call the subtle dimension, any visualization is not a solid image like a dream, but is an image which is subtler than an ordinary image. This is hard to explain, and perhaps to know what I mean, it would be necessary to try to see something subtler than an ordinary image.

It is the same with actions, such as actions moving energy. Those are subtler too.

Jim

RandallS

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Re: The subtle dimension
« Reply #1 on: November 17, 2013, 08:18:09 am »
Quote from: futureseek;129594
In my experience, when a spell is successful, it has involved subtle perception and subtle actions.

Unfortunately, you are correct. I'm not really sure what you are saying.
Randall
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futureseek

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Re: The subtle dimension
« Reply #2 on: November 17, 2013, 12:28:09 pm »
Quote from: RandallS;129621
Unfortunately, you are correct. I'm not really sure what you are saying.

 
Not being sure what is being said with words is exactly the right approach to take. Words are not adequate to describe it. They are only hints, and one must then figure out what the hint means.

When reading books, for example, one needs to directly look into ones own mind to see what in oneself a sentence might be talking about.

Guenther uses the word "diaphanous" to describe the subtle. That is to say, an image becomes diaphanous. To understand that, you might look at an image, and then in your mind visualize it as very transparent, with just hints of the colors and forms. That isn't quite it, but it is a beginning first step. Once you can do the transparent image, then you try to make that better.

A movement can become diaphanous too. For example, one can move one's arm physically, or one can feel oneself move ones arm without it moving. That arm feels a little ghostlike. To understand that, you would rest your arm and not move it, and then try to feel a kind of energy arm rising from the physical arm, which energy arm you move about.

Jim

RandallS

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Re: The subtle dimension
« Reply #3 on: November 17, 2013, 09:16:08 pm »
Quote from: futureseek;129629
Not being sure what is being said with words is exactly the right approach to take. Words are not adequate to describe it. They are only hints, and one must then figure out what the hint means.

I think I understand what you mean by "subtle". I'm just not sure what you are referring to: The results of magic? The process of casting it? something else?
Randall
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Faemon

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Re: The subtle dimension
« Reply #4 on: November 17, 2013, 09:20:26 pm »
Quote from: futureseek;129594
any visualization is not a solid image like a dream, but is an image which is subtler than an ordinary image.


Some numinous dreams can be subtle, though. It can be difficult to classify "subtle". I used to classify it as something that happens when one is passively attuned, so it's not deliberated or active... but that means that I would be ESPing all the way and no doing any active magical things.

But I do agree, merely visualizing that, say, a protective barrier is there...did not mean that it was there. I had to tap into particular components so that a visualization has subtle effect and is not imagined. (Or, well, it's imagined, but it's imagined effectively.)

Yeah. Hard to explain.
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futureseek

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Re: The subtle dimension
« Reply #5 on: November 18, 2013, 12:21:41 pm »
Quote from: RandallS;129662
I think I understand what you mean by "subtle". I'm just not sure what you are referring to: The results of magic? The process of casting it? something else?


The process of casting.

 However, if you are also thinking "results" you might be speaking from an intuition of something that isn't fully emerged yet. It is thus possible, though by no means certain, that there might be some knowledge in that direction which would emerge into your awareness from the fog of the unknown if you focused attention on it in a way your best habits of focusing attention are.

Jim

futureseek

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Re: The subtle dimension
« Reply #6 on: November 18, 2013, 12:31:21 pm »
Quote from: triple_entendre;129665
Some numinous dreams can be subtle, though. It can be difficult to classify "subtle". I used to classify it as something that happens when one is passively attuned, so it's not deliberated or active... but that means that I would be ESPing all the way and no doing any active magical things.

But I do agree, merely visualizing that, say, a protective barrier is there...did not mean that it was there. I had to tap into particular components so that a visualization has subtle effect and is not imagined. (Or, well, it's imagined, but it's imagined effectively.)

Yeah. Hard to explain.

 
Active or passive is complex area. For example, I don't do chaos magick, although I do tend to do things directly (mostly searching for knowledge). But from personal communication and some reading, chaos magick pulls things from the general chaotic energy by believing that something will occur. However, one must believe it even though one knows one is creating the belief oneself, which is said to require an unusual twist in one's mind.

Then there are some Zen approaches called things like "tryingless trying".

Jim

Faemon

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Re: The subtle dimension
« Reply #7 on: November 19, 2013, 12:34:52 am »
Quote from: futureseek;129714
Active or passive is complex area. For example, I don't do chaos magick, although I do tend to do things directly (mostly searching for knowledge). But from personal communication and some reading, chaos magick pulls things from the general chaotic energy by believing that something will occur. However, one must believe it even though one knows one is creating the belief oneself, which is said to require an unusual twist in one's mind.

Then there are some Zen approaches called things like "tryingless trying".


That unusual twist is the key to simplifying the complex. It's just there, it just happens... "Is this a simulacrum, or is this a set of qualia?" "Yes."
The Codex of Poesy: wishcraft, faelatry, alchemy, and other slight misspellings.
the Otherfaith: Chromatic Genderbending Faery Monarchs of Technology. DeviantArt

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