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Author Topic: Hedgecrossing Capability  (Read 3182 times)

wadjet

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Hedgecrossing Capability
« on: August 12, 2012, 12:26:55 am »
(Perhaps this doesn't belong in the "advanced" section, but it's about Magic Theory? Ah, well.)

I do not have a clearly defined opinion (simply because I do not know) about whether hedgecrossing/trancework is or is not an ability available to everyone.

People seem to be on every area of the spectrum of yes--no, but most of what I've read seems to imply that only certain people have the capability to do certain types of hedgecrossing, particularly the more energetic, visionary, or dream-state types. (As opposed to, say, advanced yoga, which anyone can do with enough practice.)

Do you believe that only certain individuals have the ability to leave their body, and what is your reasoning/evidence?

(On a personal note, I'm not so sure I have this capability, but I am not so quick to jump to the assumption that it is impossible for me. If I've ever done it, it certainly hasn't been since I was a small child.)

Waldhexe

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Re: Hedgecrossing Capability
« Reply #1 on: August 12, 2012, 07:45:17 am »
Quote from: wadjet;68442


I think it's a lot like musical abilities. Everyone has the basic abilities to make music, but not everyone takes up the practice to learn an instrument or learn to sing more professionally. Also some people have the ability to learn this more quickly than others and there are difficult and subtle things which might be lost on those who have the basic ability, but aren't very talented and practiced.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2012, 07:45:36 am by Waldhexe »

spoOk

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Re: Hedgecrossing Capability
« Reply #2 on: August 12, 2012, 11:45:38 am »
Quote from: Waldhexe;68496
I think it's a lot like musical abilities. Everyone has the basic abilities to make music, but not everyone takes up the practice to learn an instrument or learn to sing more professionally. Also some people have the ability to learn this more quickly than others and there are difficult and subtle things which might be lost on those who have the basic ability, but aren't very talented and practiced.

 
or like me and algebra,even when you try really hard you can't quite get it to ever stick and become easy for you and thus never get very good at it because it's so frustrating.
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Juniperberry

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Re: Hedgecrossing Capability
« Reply #3 on: August 12, 2012, 01:10:26 pm »
Quote from: wadjet;68442


Do you believe that only certain individuals have the ability to leave their body, and what is your reasoning/evidence?


 
No, I think that everyone can. In Germanic mythology there are multiple "souls" (ex. Hamr,Hugr) that everyone has. It's yours, but not you, but a part of you...rather complicated. These parts of souls can be sent out, can enter into creatures, participate in dreams. It also isn't conceived as necessarily magickal. One man left his horse grazing in a pasture so he sent his hamr to fetch it. So, there are practical uses for it that have nothing to do with the otherworld or the supernatural.

I think we do it a lot more than we think, also. The other day I went for a walk while my husband stayed at home. I didn't take my cellphone and halfway back I was wishing that I could call him to come get me (it was 116°, I was dying). When I got home he told me he had had the feeling that something was wrong and he should come get me. So, I definitely think I sent my Hugr out to him.

And it's probably not a matter of talent but becoming aware of your capability like babies learning to walk-- they need to use those muscles and become aware of them. Not doing it as a fluke, but on purpose. Early heathendom grew up with this idea of multiple soul so it wasn't a question of "if", it was a part of life. Like children seeing people walking around them and it naturally being picked up.

Another thing to mention is the ladies of the night. "Diana" taking women from their beds to fly with her at night (while their bodies laid still). Even if you don't know how to yet, you can always be lead. (This Diana was connected to the Germanic ladies of abundance, wild hunt, Perchta..)
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wadjet

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Re: Hedgecrossing Capability
« Reply #4 on: August 12, 2012, 03:56:41 pm »
Quote from: Waldhexe;68496
I think it's a lot like musical abilities.

 
This is exactly the metaphor I was imagining, thank you.

Quote from: Juniperberry;68535
These parts of souls can be sent out, can enter into creatures, participate in dreams. It also isn't conceived as necessarily magickal.


(Just interjecting a note that I don't consider most "magic" to be magical or supernatural. Like magnets. Not magic, people.)

Quote
And it's probably not a matter of talent but becoming aware of your capability like babies learning to walk-- they need to use those muscles and become aware of them. Not doing it as a fluke, but on purpose. Early heathendom grew up with this idea of multiple soul so it wasn't a question of "if", it was a part of life. Like children seeing people walking around them and it naturally being picked up.

 
This is basically the answer to any "can I?" question, of course - practice it a bunch and find out. I read somewhere one person point out that if you do a hedgecrossing ritual once every full moon, you're going to take at least two years before you do it with any great success. Repetition is key to practice....and like an instrument, maybe you have a knack for it, maybe you don't.

Juniperberry

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Re: Hedgecrossing Capability
« Reply #5 on: August 12, 2012, 04:54:35 pm »
Quote from: wadjet;68589


 
This is basically the answer to any "can I?" question, of course - practice it a bunch and find out. I read somewhere one person point out that if you do a hedgecrossing ritual once every full moon, you're going to take at least two years before you do it with any great success. Repetition is key to practice....and like an instrument, maybe you have a knack for it, maybe you don't.


That's not exactly what I meant. How many people are dragging themselves around on the ground saying "That walking thing? Tried it out but I didn't have a knack for it." Everyone,  barring disability, can walk. The point of the walking analogy is that kids do it because they see it, its daily life. (Plus nature). People believed in multiple souls that could travel and shift because its what they grew up with. It wasn't a talent to exercise or an extra ability. It was like "I have two legs that move, eyes that see, and souls that venture forth." Point being, it was a given and normal.

(Pfft. I'm probably not saying this well at all.)

Anyway. That's just from my perspective. Not trying to say it's the only correct perspective, just that its one that I have.
The pace of progress in artificial intelligence (I’m not referring to narrow AI) is incredibly fast. [...] The risk of something seriously dangerous happening is in the five year timeframe. 10 years at most.--Elon Musk

I am in the camp that is concerned about super intelligence," [Bill] Gates wrote. "First the machines will do a lot of jobs for us and not be super intelligent. That should be positive if we manage it well. A few decades after that though the intelligence is strong enough to be a concern. I agree with Elon Musk and some others on this and don\'t understand why some people are not concerned."

Faemon

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Re: Hedgecrossing Capability
« Reply #6 on: August 13, 2012, 04:03:02 am »
Quote from: wadjet;68442
most of what I've read seems to imply that only certain people have the capability to do certain types of hedgecrossing, particularly the more energetic, visionary, or dream-state types. (As opposed to, say, advanced yoga, which anyone can do with enough practice.)
Well, it would be difficult to do by-the-book advanced yoga for people who aren't typically able-bodied. I suppose you're asking if some would-be hedgecrossers are equivalent to quadriplegic-and-into-ashtanga-yoga? For that, yes... but I firmly believe that it all comes down to finding the right book, even if you have to write it, and a quadriplegic can become very accomplished in yoga. Not that I've witnessed the accomplishment myself, but the "true goal" of the practice (I believe) must be something that is, at least, available to everyone. Same goes for hedgecrossing, which is now my new favorite word for initiating an out-of-body experience. :)
« Last Edit: August 13, 2012, 04:07:21 am by Faemon »
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monsnoleedra

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Re: Hedgecrossing Capability
« Reply #7 on: August 13, 2012, 11:26:11 am »
Quote from: wadjet;68442
.. Do you believe that only certain individuals have the ability to leave their body, and what is your reasoning/evidence?


I have to vote yes and no here.

Yes in that anyone can leave their body via any number of possible means.  Out Of Body Experiences (O.B.E.), Near Death like Experiences (N.D.E.) Astral / Etheral projection of ones spirit.  Sometimes done through a controlled setting, other times done during sleep or hyptonitic inducing situations.  It's like look at the broken white line while driving and you can achieve an out of body experience, just don't do it while driving.

That said I do not believe just anyone can do things such as crossing the hedge or shamanic journey work.  Even more so when it comes to approaching the veil and guiding or facing thier greatest fear.  

In many of the circles I moved in Hedgecrossing was just another form of Shamanic works.  Mostly associated to a European form of Shamanic work though I can't state that one as fact only hear say. Yet it was also recognized that a person might be called to cross into any of the three worlds or be restricted to only one.   I suppose one could add a fourth world in that at times it's difficult to prove if one left thier body and journied or simply journied upon their inner spirit world for answers.

The problem today in my opinon is that everyone wants to be special thus no one is.  All the books and forums seem to imply anyone can do this or that and in truth thats a lie I believe.  Any one can pick up a tool but not anyone can be a master mechanic.  Any one can pick up an instrument but not anyone can be a Mozart.  Practice makes perfect they say but no amount of practice is going to make you something your not meant to be or called to be.

Picking up some book is not going to tell you what to do or how it is done.  It seems ironic to me that people will tell you that you can't learn to do this or that out of a book in their experience.  Yet, they then turn around when it comes to supposed occultish / paganish concepts and claim those do and one can.  I have yet to see a person learn to walk by reading a book yet people will claim you can journey to the veil by reading a book.  Not only journey but survive the mind assault that goes with much journey work.

wadjet

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Re: Hedgecrossing Capability
« Reply #8 on: August 13, 2012, 06:38:53 pm »
Quote from: Juniperberry;68597
People believed in multiple souls that could travel and shift because its what they grew up with. It wasn't a talent to exercise or an extra ability. It was like "I have two legs that move, eyes that see, and souls that venture forth." Point being, it was a given and normal.

 
Ah, I get it.

Quote from: triple_entendre;68708
I suppose you're asking if some would-be hedgecrossers are equivalent to quadriplegic-and-into-ashtanga-yoga? For that, yes... but I firmly believe that it all comes down to finding the right book, even if you have to write it, and a quadriplegic can become very accomplished in yoga.


Well, yes, basically. I just mean that there is a combination of physical/mental capability and effort/practice, and that some people use one or the other to become more accomplished, and that some have both and become Mozart.

Quote
Same goes for hedgecrossing, which is now my new favorite word for initiating an out-of-body experience. :)


I know right? I don't know who coined it, but it's an excellent term for earthier-type paths.

Quote from: monsnoleedra;68763
Yes in that anyone can leave their body via any number of possible means.  Out Of Body Experiences (O.B.E.), Near Death like Experiences (N.D.E.) Astral / Etheral projection of ones spirit.  Sometimes done through a controlled setting, other times done during sleep or hyptonitic inducing situations.  


I agree with this.

Quote
That said I do not believe just anyone can do things such as crossing the hedge or shamanic journey work.  Even more so when it comes to approaching the veil and guiding or facing thier greatest fear.  
In many of the circles I moved in Hedgecrossing was just another form of Shamanic works.  


Yes, I personally view it as shamanistic, and to me, that means that only "musicians" can do it, if you will. Some people might be able to intentionally leave their body sometimes, but there's only a select few with the talent AND skill to do it "properly".

Quote
The problem today in my opinon is that everyone wants to be special thus no one is.


Agreed. It is why I am hesitant to even bother into looking into this sort of thing, even though I enjoy reading about it. I am aware of the less-admirable feelings I have about it: because let's face it, it's fascinating, and the lure of specialness and power is tantalizing. I can admit that to myself.

(There are other reasons I'm interested, too, of course, as well as various reasons I in the "why I think I'm able" and "why I think I'm unable" columns.)

Quote
I have yet to see a person learn to walk by reading a book yet people will claim you can journey to the veil by reading a book.  Not only journey but survive the mind assault that goes with much journey work.

 
And this is exactly one of the reasons I haven't done anything, and what I mean by "practice". Do you even know what your own soul looks like? I'm not sure I do. So why would I just throw it out there?

As a "safety" note, I have never tried any trance-work or hedgecrossing. I wouldn't without lots of preparation and precaution.

Annie Roonie

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Re: Hedgecrossing Capability
« Reply #9 on: August 13, 2012, 10:03:54 pm »
Quote from: monsnoleedra;68763
I have yet to see a person learn to walk by reading a book yet people will claim you can journey to the veil by reading a book.  Not only journey but survive the mind assault that goes with much journey work.



Well, people who have to learn to walk again do rely on many many books in one way or another to relearn. PTs study those books and so do many people who have suffered injury. And some do learn to walk again. The books help them know what to expect, give suggestions about how to deal with things that might arise and give layouts of the territory. They aren't apparent in the act of doing because they are already inside the heads of the participants who care enough to read them.

And as brain research goes on and improves there are more books being written about procedures that can help people in ways nobody thought was possible. Christopher DeCharms has a great and short TED talk about visualizing pain with real time MRI to control it. When that research is done, there will be books about it and people will read them and learn how to manage their own pain. Something many previously thought was in the realm of the mystical only.

It is actually wonderful that people do and can learn these types of things from books IMO.

Annie Roonie

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Re: Hedgecrossing Capability
« Reply #10 on: August 13, 2012, 10:21:30 pm »
Quote from: wadjet;68442

Do you believe that only certain individuals have the ability to leave their body, and what is your reasoning/evidence?



I think all kids can because they haven't been told they can't and they have more opportunity. Plus, it is almost encouraged. Lands of make believe shows and stories abounded when I was a kid. One even had a woman using a mirror with the old rotating spiral in it. Trance inducing it was. But as people age sleep time is no longer protected, real world concerns (pain, work, relationships, etc. forevs) cloud everything and time is limited and play is about socialization.

And after all of that, there are the scare tactics and ooh aah factors that people have different reactions to. Some can be intimidated even if every other life circumstance give them time and opportunity and they actually want to do it. But many don't and that's cool too. Some do it without knowing they do it I believe.

And there are some who have so much anxiety about doing something the "proper" way, that it freezes them into doing nothing. Might be for the best. I don't know.

I think many would like to claim ownership of abilities instead of for the work they have done to learn the skill sets. That's people wanting to feel special IMO.

Some books out there, I hope will be helpful to me in gaining some terminology (have not acquired any books yet) have blurbs and reviews that mention things like taking precautions etc. I think that's helpful and not a scare tactic.

But you may be correct in that some people may simply be better at it than others like with anything else. I don't know.

I also like the term too!

Faemon

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Re: Hedgecrossing Capability
« Reply #11 on: August 13, 2012, 11:45:36 pm »
Quote from: wadjet;68870
I just mean that there is a combination of physical/mental capability and effort/practice, and that some people use one or the other to become more accomplished, and that some have both and become Mozart.

On the other hand, I trust a few accounts where the hedgecrosser wasn't trying, didn't want to, and wonders how ever to make it stop. One of my psychic mentors, who was very spiritual, was even against the idea of it as something done voluntarily: if a person was "meant to" then Spirit/Cosmos/Karma/Guides would initiate the experience, not the ego.

Quote
And this is exactly one of the reasons I haven't done anything, and what I mean by "practice". Do you even know what your own soul looks like? I'm not sure I do. So why would I just throw it out there?

As a "safety" note, I have never tried any trance-work or hedgecrossing. I wouldn't without lots of preparation and precaution.

Ah, I'm more into the "throw them into the pool, they'll learn to swim naturally" school of psychic development. Since I don't actually trust very much anymore that anyone can be truly certain of how things work out there, there is no preparation or precaution that would truly be very effective. You know? Like, I was advised to put up shields, and then after the shields failed was advised that people from the otherworld aren't confined to spatial dimensions at all so psychic bubble-shields were useless. I've never seen my Silver Cord (tm), but have no problem going corporeal again, so that might be fluff, or at least "something to note" that too quickly became "something to follow." Or maybe I've been doing it wrong.
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Maps

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Re: Hedgecrossing Capability
« Reply #12 on: August 14, 2012, 12:43:02 pm »
Quote from: wadjet;68442
(Perhaps this doesn't belong in the "advanced" section, but it's about Magic Theory? Ah, well.)

I do not have a clearly defined opinion (simply because I do not know) about whether hedgecrossing/trancework is or is not an ability available to everyone.

People seem to be on every area of the spectrum of yes--no, but most of what I've read seems to imply that only certain people have the capability to do certain types of hedgecrossing, particularly the more energetic, visionary, or dream-state types. (As opposed to, say, advanced yoga, which anyone can do with enough practice.)

Do you believe that only certain individuals have the ability to leave their body, and what is your reasoning/evidence?

(On a personal note, I'm not so sure I have this capability, but I am not so quick to jump to the assumption that it is impossible for me. If I've ever done it, it certainly hasn't been since I was a small child.)


I think that we can do just about anything we set our mind to when the ego is taken out of the equation as much as possible.

For instance, I'm an artist, and I've been one all my life. I can't imagine doing anything else, having a "regular" job even if it was good pay, and not having access to pen and paper is troubling to me on many levels. I grew up having everyone around me tell me that I'm talented, and all the other junk that comes with simply doing what you love from early on and not stopping.

So I'm a firm believer that "talent" is as much of a bullcrap excuse as zodiac signs are for bad behavior. No, there's no such thing as talent in the way that most think. Everyone asks me why I'm so good at drawing, but do they want to hear that I've put in my 10,000 hours probably 3 times over? No, they want a quasi-mystical answer that makes them feel better for giving up on it because they led themselves to think they were a lost cause.

Anybody can do anything. The real question is, are you dedicated enough to put in the work to get good at it?

Laveth

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Re: Hedgecrossing Capability
« Reply #13 on: August 26, 2012, 12:41:58 am »
Quote from: Maps;69025
I think that we can do just about anything we set our mind to when the ego is taken out of the equation as much as possible.

For instance, I'm an artist, and I've been one all my life. I can't imagine doing anything else, having a "regular" job even if it was good pay, and not having access to pen and paper is troubling to me on many levels. I grew up having everyone around me tell me that I'm talented, and all the other junk that comes with simply doing what you love from early on and not stopping.

So I'm a firm believer that "talent" is as much of a bullcrap excuse as zodiac signs are for bad behavior. No, there's no such thing as talent in the way that most think. Everyone asks me why I'm so good at drawing, but do they want to hear that I've put in my 10,000 hours probably 3 times over? No, they want a quasi-mystical answer that makes them feel better for giving up on it because they led themselves to think they were a lost cause.

Anybody can do anything. The real question is, are you dedicated enough to put in the work to get good at it?

 
I really like this answer. I also think it definitely helps to have some level of innate skill. That doesn't mean one can't learn from scratch though. :)

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