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Author Topic: Tarot traditions?  (Read 3352 times)

Toine

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Tarot traditions?
« on: March 29, 2012, 03:16:55 am »
***If there is a thread already discussing this I apologize please direct me toward it, but I did do a search and didn't see one. thanks :-)

So I've dabbled in reading tarot on and off and I want to really immerse myself and become fluent in Tarot. I have a problem though. I had 3 different books with very different information. An example being that one book might say that card x is the first card in a spread and the other would say card y is the first in the same spread. Or a position in a spread will represent something different in each book. Then of course there is the card interpretation.

I have had good results despite the differences as long as I know from the start which way I'm following, but that isn't really conducive to learning and being a self-sufficient reader. I'd rather not depend on books for the rest of my life.

~~So what I'm asking you all is this: Can anyone tell me about the different traditions. I assume the differences in these books come from following different traditions (for instance one is very heavy on Cabala) I think the only way I'll be able to learn is if I know what the traditions are, and can choose the one that makes the most sense to me then start from there.
Also if you could suggest beginner and intermediate level books following the different traditions I would greatly appreciate it.

Thanks everyone!

spoOk

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Re: Tarot traditions???
« Reply #1 on: March 29, 2012, 02:04:10 pm »
Quote from: Toine;47972
***If there is a thread already discussing this I apologize please direct me toward it, but I did do a search and didn't see one. thanks :-)

So I've dabbled in reading tarot on and off and I want to really immerse myself and become fluent in Tarot. I have a problem though. I had 3 different books with very different information. An example being that one book might say that card x is the first card in a spread and the other would say card y is the first in the same spread. Or a position in a spread will represent something different in each book. Then of course there is the card interpretation.

I have had good results despite the differences as long as I know from the start which way I'm following, but that isn't really conducive to learning and being a self-sufficient reader. I'd rather not depend on books for the rest of my life.

~~So what I'm asking you all is this: Can anyone tell me about the different traditions. I assume the differences in these books come from following different traditions (for instance one is very heavy on Cabala) I think the only way I'll be able to learn is if I know what the traditions are, and can choose the one that makes the most sense to me then start from there.
Also if you could suggest beginner and intermediate level books following the different traditions I would greatly appreciate it.

Thanks everyone!

 there are as many layouts as there are sexual positions.
honestly just use what seems best to you.
I use what's called the Celtic cross layout.
it's fairly standard...like the missionary position if you will.
;)
you can do single card pulls,three card pulls with past present. future or problem,answer one,answer two.
blahblah blah.

the rider Waite deck and any book associated with it is the standard regular system.
if you have a swanky deck,like medicine wheel,Thoth etc. some of those work on different layouts and your best to read the books that go with them.

I also work with reversed cards if they happen,and no matter how you try to keep the cards tidy,they happen!
and if shuffling and cards pop out,I put those aside and read them after the main reading....sometimes they are intruding secondary thoughts or even give the answer clearer than the main layout.
Ize bel zafen.
Ize bel daleen.

Toine

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Re: Tarot traditions???
« Reply #2 on: March 30, 2012, 09:00:12 am »
Quote from: spoOk;48043
there are as many layouts as there are sexual positions.
honestly just use what seems best to you.
I use what's called the Celtic cross layout.
it's fairly standard...like the missionary position if you will.
;)
you can do single card pulls,three card pulls with past present. future or problem,answer one,answer two.
blahblah blah.

the rider Waite deck and any book associated with it is the standard regular system.
if you have a swanky deck,like medicine wheel,Thoth etc. some of those work on different layouts and your best to read the books that go with them.

I also work with reversed cards if they happen,and no matter how you try to keep the cards tidy,they happen!
and if shuffling and cards pop out,I put those aside and read them after the main reading....sometimes they are intruding secondary thoughts or even give the answer clearer than the main layout.

Yes I know this. I should clarify. What I meant was that different books are telling me to do different things. for instance one book had the 3rd card position in the Celtic cross as the bottom card in the cross, and another had it as the card on the left I think. and these two books had completely different meanings ascribed to the different positions in the spread.
So what I'm trying to learn (because the books don't really tell me) is what traditions are dictating these differences? If I'm going to learn I think it would be best if the information like where and what the positions are was consistent.
Have you (or anyone else) run into this issue?

Thanks for your reply
« Last Edit: March 30, 2012, 09:01:10 am by Toine »

Jenett

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Re: Tarot traditions???
« Reply #3 on: March 30, 2012, 09:09:39 am »
Quote from: Toine;48161

So what I'm trying to learn (because the books don't really tell me) is what traditions are dictating these differences? If I'm going to learn I think it would be best if the information like where and what the positions are was consistent.
Have you (or anyone else) run into this issue?

Thanks for your reply

 
The short answer is "Individual experience" - also what happens when you have a lot of initial learning going on through at least something of a folk process. (Person learns the Celtic Cross, then one day they make a change - either deliberately, or because they half-remember something and don't double check it. The change works, so they keep doing it that way. But you get that happening over enough people and enough years, and you get variations, even though people are still using the same basic layout.

Often, those changes happen because someone gets better at explaining something, too - Rachel Pollack talks about some of this in her book Tarot Wisdom, where she distills a lot of her experience teaching and doing Tarot down: she points out that there are things she explains a certain way now, or ways she looks at a spread that have been refined over years of explaining it to people.

In contrast, things like deck symbology tend to be a bit more clear, because people will say things like "Rider-Waite symbology" or "Marseilles based" or whatever, and it's a bit easier to see the lines of change and transmission and influence.
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Toine

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Re: Tarot traditions???
« Reply #4 on: March 31, 2012, 09:16:11 am »
Quote from: Jenett;48165
The short answer is "Individual experience" - also what happens when you have a lot of initial learning going on through at least something of a folk process. (Person learns the Celtic Cross, then one day they make a change - either deliberately, or because they half-remember something and don't double check it. The change works, so they keep doing it that way. But you get that happening over enough people and enough years, and you get variations, even though people are still using the same basic layout.

Often, those changes happen because someone gets better at explaining something, too - Rachel Pollack talks about some of this in her book Tarot Wisdom, where she distills a lot of her experience teaching and doing Tarot down: she points out that there are things she explains a certain way now, or ways she looks at a spread that have been refined over years of explaining it to people.

In contrast, things like deck symbology tend to be a bit more clear, because people will say things like "Rider-Waite symbology" or "Marseilles based" or whatever, and it's a bit easier to see the lines of change and transmission and influence.

 
OH NO! This is the worst answer ever! Not in that the information you gave me is bad, but in that it'll be more difficult for me to find my way if all of these published differences are just changes other people have made. It's OK though now that I know what's going on I'll do my best to work with it. Thank you so much. I assume the title drop means that Tarot Wisdom is worth checking out? If you (or anyone else) wouldn't mind could you give me your opinion on Tarot Wisdom and 78 Degrees of Wisdom? I looked up Tarot Wisdom when you mentioned it which is how I found 78 Degrees of Wisdom and they have great reviews, but the more opinions I get the better. Though they aren't expensive books, so I won't be losing out too much if I don't like them.
My main concern is that I'm not a beginner, so I need something that will be helpful at an intermediate level, but since all of my experience comes from dabbling (albeit unusually meticulous dabbling) I need something that will solidify the basic foundations.

Jenett

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Re: Tarot traditions???
« Reply #5 on: March 31, 2012, 09:45:16 am »
Quote from: Toine;48289
OH NO! This is the worst answer ever! Not in that the information you gave me is bad, but in that it'll be more difficult for me to find my way if all of these published differences are just changes other people have made.


I know it's hard - but that's really how a lot of subjects work. You can think of it like a cookbook, maybe - there are lots and lots and lots of ways to make a great loaf of bread, but people use different methods, based on how they learned it and what works for them, and what they just plain prefer. One way or another isn't necessarily *wrong* if they both lead to bread - but on of them might be a way that doesn't work for you.

There's also some stuff that will get you just plain inedible non-food, but those are usually a bit easier to tell once you know a little about the subject and what you want to do. (And it sounds like you're already there.)

Quote
I assume the title drop means that Tarot Wisdom is worth checking out? If you (or anyone else) wouldn't mind could you give me your opinion on Tarot Wisdom and 78 Degrees of Wisdom?


I think Tarot Wisdom is a great resource, and for someone who's serious about Tarot, it's one of the first ones I'd suggest (not as the very first book, because it can be a bit too much, but a great one for anyone interested in digging deeper.)

Basically, it's her taking the material in 78 Degrees of Wisdom (also good, but they're 20 years old now, those two volumes) and adding to it all the stuff she's learned in the meantime. She looks at a variety of historical interpretations of cards in some of the most common decks, and then also includes a lot of material on how to come to an intuitive understanding of the cards, various exercises, material on spreads, etc.

I also generally like Mary K. Greer's Tarot books, if you're looking for some other resources.

Honestly, one of the best things you can do for yourself is lots of practice, and lots of note-taking to see what works for you, and what connections you make between the cards yourself. (For example, there's a card that shows up for me in certain readings having to do with my profession that I've never seen discussed quite that way in any book - but it's clearly relevant when I do readings. I only know that because I take notes of any substantial reading I do.)
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spoOk

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Re: Tarot traditions???
« Reply #6 on: March 31, 2012, 05:09:16 pm »
Quote from: Jenett;48293
I know it's hard - but that's really how a lot of subjects work. You can think of it like a cookbook, maybe - there are lots and lots and lots of ways to make a great loaf of bread, but people use different methods, based on how they learned it and what works for them, and what they just plain prefer. One way or another isn't necessarily *wrong* if they both lead to bread - but on of them might be a way that doesn't work for you.

There's also some stuff that will get you just plain inedible non-food, but those are usually a bit easier to tell once you know a little about the subject and what you want to do. (And it sounds like you're already there.)



I think Tarot Wisdom is a great resource, and for someone who's serious about Tarot, it's one of the first ones I'd suggest (not as the very first book, because it can be a bit too much, but a great one for anyone interested in digging deeper.)

Basically, it's her taking the material in 78 Degrees of Wisdom (also good, but they're 20 years old now, those two volumes) and adding to it all the stuff she's learned in the meantime. She looks at a variety of historical interpretations of cards in some of the most common decks, and then also includes a lot of material on how to come to an intuitive understanding of the cards, various exercises, material on spreads, etc.

I also generally like Mary K. Greer's Tarot books, if you're looking for some other resources.

Honestly, one of the best things you can do for yourself is lots of practice, and lots of note-taking to see what works for you, and what connections you make between the cards yourself. (For example, there's a card that shows up for me in certain readings having to do with my profession that I've never seen discussed quite that way in any book - but it's clearly relevant when I do readings. I only know that because I take notes of any substantial reading I do.)

 my personal experience with my cards is that when they are grumpy with me I get alot of swords in the reading and it just gets in the way of the reading and doesn't actually make any sense.
usually happens when I haven't used them in a long time.
I've honestly never used any other deck other than this one...I HAD a rider Waite deck given to me,but only used it twice,then I gave it to another person.
I've never had the urge to use another deck....and I've gotten compliments from folks about my cards....they say things like" your cards really like you,or your cards really work well for you" they tend to give answers that aren't cut and dry yes or no,but I've had folks come back to me and say...oh em gee! your cards were so right!!
lol
*shrug*

so as to you trying to learn all you can of all kinds of methods,I think that's great! but if you find a way that works for you and you like it,I don't think it would be such a bad thing to run with it. :)
Ize bel zafen.
Ize bel daleen.

Toine

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Re: Tarot traditions???
« Reply #7 on: April 01, 2012, 01:28:42 pm »
Quote from: Jenett;48293
Honestly, one of the best things you can do for yourself is lots of practice, and lots of note-taking to see what works for you, and what connections you make between the cards yourself. (For example, there's a card that shows up for me in certain readings having to do with my profession that I've never seen discussed quite that way in any book - but it's clearly relevant when I do readings. I only know that because I take notes of any substantial reading I do.)

 
Yes that was my plan :-) I just didn't want to get things too confused by having sources that were going to conflict with each other too much. Though now that I know WHY I'm not overly concerned about it. I'll definitely check out the books you suggested. You've really been a big help.
Thanks :-D

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