Scrying with fire or meditating with fire?

[elethia1213]

So I scry or meditate with fire. I get in the right state of mind, light a candle and stare into the flame with a focus thought. Once I have the feeling it's time i close my eyes and faded images show sometimes a scene of something that has happen or most of the time something symbolic. I've been told thats a meditating with fire as a guide but I also have been told its scrying. what do you think? :confused: would like to hear other opinions.

[Ghostlight]

So I scry or meditate with fire. I get in the right state of mind, light a candle and stare into the flame with a focus thought. Once I have the feeling it's time i close my eyes and faded images show sometimes a scene of something that has happen or most of the time something symbolic. I've been told thats a meditating with fire as a guide but I also have been told its scrying. what do you think? :confused: would like to hear other opinions.

 
I voted for scrying. Though generally yeah, it's whatever you want it to be and it doesn't really matter, so I'm not being dogmatic about it. But since you asked I just want to explain what I would call it and why.

The reason I'd call it scrying is that you stare into something (in this case fire) to provoke visions and that's what scrying is. That you also meditate doesn't change that since most people meditate to get into the right mindset for scrying or any other form of divination. I'm not sure that scrying is even possible without a certain degree of meditation, so the two aren't mutually exclusive.

So I guess my point is that all scrying is meditation but not all meditation is scrying. I call your form of meditation scrying because of the fire and the images it provokes.

[RandallS]

I've been told thats a meditating with fire as a guide but I also have been told its scrying. what do you think? :confused: would like to hear other opinions.

You can meditate and scry "at the same time". Actually, it's not really "at the same time" but rather one can lead into the other.

[Charis]

So I scry or meditate with fire. I get in the right state of mind, light a candle and stare into the flame with a focus thought. Once I have the feeling it's time i close my eyes and faded images show sometimes a scene of something that has happen or most of the time something symbolic. I've been told thats a meditating with fire as a guide but I also have been told its scrying. what do you think? :confused: would like to hear other opinions.

I voted it's whatever you want it to be, but I guess I should clarify that it could also be "it's whatever it turns into."  :p

[Aett of Cups]

I voted it's whatever you want it to be, but I guess I should clarify that it could also be "it's whatever it turns into."  :p

 
I couldn't give an answer to the poll, but I can offer a written response.  I'd say that meditating is a pre-requisite for scrying but that scrying isn't always happening when we meditate.

I've considered a number of definitions of scrying in the past - and, so far, have not found one that I find completely satisfactory.  Some say all divination is scrying, others that it involves seeing images in a "clear deep," some that scrying is seeing any image whatsoever during meditation; many authors only offer examples, and those who attempt a definition are - I feel - either too exclusive or (in most cases) too inclusive.  After having read a number of scrying texts and having practiced scrying for a number of years, I'd posit that scrying is the reception of indirect sensory input that arises from some natural pattern that has not had a divinatory form imposed upon it by an author, audience or deity before its reception by the diviner.  Admittedly, it's not going to be the most popular or easy definition to adopt, but I believe it's accurate.