Group Project: Designing an Ogam Deck

[Aster Breo]

So, how does everyone feel about starting to brainstorm some "categories" of symbols to include on each card?

 
I just got a copy of The Druidry Handbook (John Michael Greer), which includes a discussion of ogham.  His categories are:

tree
number
color
bird
animal (I thought birds are animals, but I guess not... )
tool
art
elemental attribution
calendar attribution

He also lists "Word Ogham of Morann mac Main," "Word Ogham of Cu Chulainn," and "Word Ogham of Mac ind Oic," but I'm not sure those are useful for us.  Maybe...

And he lists divinatory meanings for upright and reverse castings.

I think we probably need to decide whether we're going to try to incorporate lists like Greer's, Laurie's, and Kondratiev's, or whether we want to create a completely new system.  Either way is going to be a lot of work.

[Celtag]

Just before we moved into our new software, we were discussing the idea of collaborating to produce an ogam divination deck.  We decided to table the conversation until after the move, and I took responsibility for getting the project going again.

So...  Is anyone still interested in this project?  Besides me, I mean.  

If so, please post in this thread and we'll figure out how to proceed.

~ Aster

I would be very interested in doing this. I am actually reading alot about Ogam, and want to give it a good try,

[Finn]

I would be very interested in doing this. I am actually reading alot about Ogam, and want to give it a good try,

 
Sure! If you read through the thread, you'll know where we are right now.

And really, I'm kind of AWOL right now until my week is over and I'm back in my house for a long period of time (and have the Internet). Any ideas you want to pitch in for developing associations and ogam lists are most welcome!

[Erinnightwalker]

Sure! If you read through the thread, you'll know where we are right now.

And really, I'm kind of AWOL right now until my week is over and I'm back in my house for a long period of time (and have the Internet). Any ideas you want to pitch in for developing associations and ogam lists are most welcome!

 
I tentatively raise my hand for artwork. I have some designs of simplified animals (crane/heron, mouse, rabbit, swan in flight) that may suit. This is an example of the rabbit. I'm getting Weaving Word Wisdom in a few weeks (unless my used books get here faster! :cf:) so I'll know better then what sort of stuff I can help with. My current ogam resources are teensy sections in larger books and a Little White Book type thing for someone else's ogam card deck. Not particularly helpful :/

[Aster Breo]

I tentatively raise my hand for artwork. I have some designs of simplified animals (crane/heron, mouse, rabbit, swan in flight) that may suit. This is an example of the rabbit.

 
Love the rabbit!  

I really like the sort of "primitive" style of art -- kinda like cave paintings.  

I also think we have a pretty good list of potential categories now.  The trick is going to be narrowing them down.  

[Erinnightwalker]

Love the rabbit!  

I really like the sort of "primitive" style of art -- kinda like cave paintings.  

I also think we have a pretty good list of potential categories now.  The trick is going to be narrowing them down.  

 
Is this going to be a teaching deck (carefully cram as much ogam info into each card as we can) or a divination deck where coherence of the whole card and readability is the primary concern? Are we going for intuitive readings where artwork is vital or will the Little White Book be important?

[Aster Breo]

Is this going to be a teaching deck (carefully cram as much ogam info into each card as we can) or a divination deck where coherence of the whole card and readability is the primary concern?

Can you clarify what you mean by "teaching deck"?

Are we going for intuitive readings where artwork is vital or will the Little White Book be important?

Are those two things mutually exclusive?  (Serious question.   )

[SunflowerP]

Are those two things mutually exclusive?  (Serious question.   )

 
I don't expect this deck to be relevant for me, so I don't have a dog in the fight in any case, but speaking as an experienced cartomancer, I'd say that has less to do with any deck itself (except where the deck happens to be weak in some area) and more to do with whether the reader hirself is more oriented to intuitive reading, visual-symbol-based reading, word-symbol-based reading, or whatever.  Well, and - speaking not as a word-symbol-based reader but as someone who has mentored beginners - if your LWB sucks, it's going to be harder for beginners to use the deck.

Well, darn - I've been thinking all along about this project that it has nothing to do with me other than academic interest.  But maybe not so much.  I lack both Ogam knowledge and the time/spoons to take on helping to write a LWB, I think, but I feel like I should volunteer to do quality-control proofreading on it for general usability.

Sunflower

[Finn]

I lack both Ogam knowledge and the time/spoons to take on helping to write a LWB, I think, but I feel like I should volunteer to do quality-control proofreading on it for general usability.

 
I will happily take you up on that offer, when we reach that point. Thank you!

[Erinnightwalker]

Can you clarify what you mean by "teaching deck"?

To teach about the symbols and all the interconnections. Kinda like flash cards I've seen that before and they seemed to work pretty well. I don't know, really, just tossing out ideas.

Are those two things mutually exclusive?  (Serious question.   )

 
I don't know XD Never tried building a deck from the ground up before. I know what vibes I get from other decks. The less artwork, the more I rely on the LWB. The more artwork, the more intuitive I get because I have more variety to work with and more point to catch the eye.

(I'm kinda Kermit-flailing here. Hopefully I hit no one in the eye o.O )

[Finn]

I think we probably need to decide whether we're going to try to incorporate lists like Greer's, Laurie's, and Kondratiev's, or whether we want to create a completely new system.  Either way is going to be a lot of work.

 

Playing a little catch up here with posts:

My instinct with this deck initially was actually synthesize the various lists together into one deck: collect together varying symbols and make a kind of "constellation" for each fid. I also wanted to see if I could come up with a couple of lists of my own, and add them to the constellation, as per the tradition that filid were expected to make up their own ogam lists, as well as remember the classic stuff.

I have found rather a lot of good... results? experiences? with Laurie's and Kondratiev's lists, and I'd rather not reinvent the wheel, if you know what I mean. So my vote is to start from them.

[Finn]

I tentatively raise my hand for artwork. I have some designs of simplified animals (crane/heron, mouse, rabbit, swan in flight) that may suit. This is an example of the rabbit.

 
Cute! And thanks for volunteering.

[Finn]

Is this going to be a teaching deck (carefully cram as much ogam info into each card as we can) or a divination deck where coherence of the whole card and readability is the primary concern?

 
I don't think think they are mutually exclusive. In fact, (shameless promotion ahead), I think that the Shadowscapes Tarot does a magnificent job of coherently combining imagery and symbolism into an artistic composition. I purchased her art books in which she details some of the research, symbolism and traditional lore she incorporated into each card. And indeed, if our deck ever looked like that, I would be very happy.

Another deck that does a solid job of incorporating symbols and lore into a cohesive composition is The Ogham Oracle (by the same guy who illustrated the Lord of the Rings Tarot). I'm not a huge fan of this particular artist's style (it's a bit busy), but it does a great job at putting a lot of information into a small card, and a small composition.


What do y'all think?

[Aster Breo]

Another deck that does a solid job of incorporating symbols and lore into a cohesive composition is The Ogham Oracle (by the same guy who illustrated the Lord of the Rings Tarot). I'm not a huge fan of this particular artist's style (it's a bit busy), but it does a great job at putting a lot of information into a small card, and a small composition.


What do y'all think?

 
Either I've managed to never run across this deck or I've forgotten about it (which is more likely).  :ashamed:

Given it's existence, though, is our project a reinvention of the wheel?  If not, is there something specific wrong with this deck that we could do differently and better?

[Finn]

Given it's existence, though, is our project a reinvention of the wheel?  If not, is there something specific wrong with this deck that we could do differently and better?

 
Mm, I don't think our project is a reinvention of the wheel: for one thing, this deck starts from the "tree = ogam" oracle system. The cards are all named after the trees, and feature symbolism associated mostly with the trees, not necessarily with the myriad other associations that can be found when you start from the oracle system of "ogam = a letter".

And that's the case with most ogam decks, honestly. I think what we want to do that's different is start from a completely different system: ogam is a series of letters, with trees, colors, animals, etc. associated with them.

And, as I mentioned, not a huge fan of the artwork in this one. I like the artwork of the Tree Oracle, but again, that's just limited to trees. What I'd like is a deck that features pretty artwork.