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Author Topic: Group Project: Designing an Ogam Deck  (Read 6057 times)

Aster Breo

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Group Project: Designing an Ogam Deck
« on: July 21, 2011, 04:04:49 am »
Just before we moved into our new software, we were discussing the idea of collaborating to produce an ogam divination deck.  We decided to table the conversation until after the move, and I took responsibility for getting the project going again.

So...  Is anyone still interested in this project?  Besides me, I mean.  ;)

If so, please post in this thread and we'll figure out how to proceed.

~ Aster
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rocquelaire

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Group Project: Designing an Ogam Deck
« Reply #1 on: July 21, 2011, 05:13:13 am »
Quote from: Aster Breo;6747
So...  Is anyone still interested in this project?  Besides me, I mean.  ;)

If so, please post in this thread and we'll figure out how to proceed.

~ Aster

I'm definitely interested. Not sure how useful I'll be though lol. It sounds like a fantastic project :D
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Juni

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Re: Group Project: Designing an Ogam Deck
« Reply #2 on: July 21, 2011, 10:30:29 am »
Quote from: Aster Breo;6747
So...  Is anyone still interested in this project?  Besides me, I mean.  ;)

 
I am still interested, but I don't know how much help I will be, as I'm not as familiar with ogham as I am with tarot.
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Re: Group Project: Designing an Ogam Deck
« Reply #3 on: July 23, 2011, 06:40:05 am »
Quote from: Aster Breo;6747
Just before we moved into our new software, we were discussing the idea of collaborating to produce an ogam divination deck.  We decided to table the conversation until after the move, and I took responsibility for getting the project going again.

So...  Is anyone still interested in this project?  Besides me, I mean.  ;)

If so, please post in this thread and we'll figure out how to proceed.

~ Aster


I don't know nearly enough about Ogam to be able to help with that end...but would be very interested in this deck to help me learn it!  I'm fairly decent with tarot...maybe I can help there...

JM
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Finn

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Re: Group Project: Designing an Ogam Deck
« Reply #4 on: July 23, 2011, 11:14:07 am »
Quote from: Aster Breo;6747

So...  Is anyone still interested in this project?  Besides me, I mean.  ;)

 
I am! I'm still available to help compile ogam meanings and brainstorm possible imagery, but I'm afraid my art talents wouldn't help the actual execution of the deck much. :p
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Aster Breo

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Re: Group Project: Designing an Ogam Deck
« Reply #5 on: July 23, 2011, 12:23:45 pm »
Quote from: Finn;7374

 
OK.  It seems to me that we have enough interest to at least try to move forward on this project.

When we talked about it before the move, IIRC, the plan was:

1)  compile ogam list -- whoever wants to

The best known ogam list is the "tree alphabet" -- and I've seen a few different versions of that.  But pretty much any category of things can be organized as an ogam list.  In Erynn Laurie's book, she gives a color, astronomical object, bird, and musical note, in addition to a tree, for each ogam.  We could just use those, or we could compile our own lists, or a combination.

2)  design "template" for card graphics -- graphic artist(s)

After we decide which ogam lists we want to use, we'd then come up with a standard layout for the graphics we want to use for the cards.  Using Erynn's lists just as an example, I'm thinking this would be something like "center of the card: ogam character; upper center: keyword; lower center: tree; upper right corner: color; upper left corner: planet; lower right corner: bird; lower left corner: musical note."  Each card would have the same type of object in the same places, so they'd be consistent and (hopefully) easier to read and remember.

3)  find graphics, lay out cards -- graphic artist(s)

I'm not a graphic artist, so I'm not sure what will go into this step.  But I'm confident there are people here who do know how to do that.  ;)

We'll also have to figure out how to actually produce the decks.  Again, since I'm not a graphic artist, I don't really know what the options are.  Maybe a downloadable PDF that people can print out on cardstock?  Maybe some kind of on-demand, online publishing?  Whatever it is, I assume we'll need to know how that will work out and what kind of file format we'll need in order to finalize the graphics and lay out the cards.

What do y'all think?  Ideas for a better process?

Another question: a few people have expressed interest in this project, but have noted that they don't know much about ogam.  How can we get everyone up to speed and on the same page?  

I'd strongly recommend Erynn Laurie's book, Ogam: Weaving Word Wisdom.  Erynn's site also has a deck of ogam cards (very simple -- not what we're planning) and a VERY abbreviated publication on ogam (which gives the basics of the interpretations, but barely scratches the surface compared to her book).  Both of those are available for PDF download at reasonable prices.  (There on the same page as her book, just scroll down.)  Also, I have notes from an ogam workshop I took with Alexei Kondratiev a few years ago.  

What else do people need?

This is going to be fun!  :)

~ Aster
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Finn

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Re: Group Project: Designing an Ogam Deck
« Reply #6 on: July 23, 2011, 12:35:45 pm »
Quote from: Aster Breo;7398

Another question: a few people have expressed interest in this project, but have noted that they don't know much about ogam.  How can we get everyone up to speed and on the same page?  

I'd strongly recommend Erynn Laurie's book, Ogam: Weaving Word Wisdom.  Erynn's site also has a deck of ogam cards (very simple -- not what we're planning) and a VERY abbreviated publication on ogam (which gives the basics of the interpretations, but barely scratches the surface compared to her book).  Both of those are available for PDF download at reasonable prices.  (There on the same page as her book, just scroll down.)  Also, I have notes from an ogam workshop I took with Alexei Kondratiev a few years ago.  

What else do people need?

 
Don't forget that I've emailed/made available your handy dandy chart and my own write up/cheat sheet of ERL's ogams via Google Docs. I have seven other people who can see these docs. I can send an email to everyone who asked me to invite them to view these docs, and maybe they can check in here, say they got the email, and whether they would still like to participate.

That way I can see if anyone else needs access who doesn't have it.

How does that sound?
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Finn

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Re: Group Project: Designing an Ogam Deck
« Reply #7 on: July 23, 2011, 12:38:00 pm »
Quote from: Finn;7400
That way I can see if anyone else needs access who doesn't have it.



Juniper and Rocquelaire, I'm pretty sure you weren't on that list of people who has access to these Google docs. Am I correct? I'm terribly sorry if I can't remember how long you've been around TC and this project... :o
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rocquelaire

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Group Project: Designing an Ogam Deck
« Reply #8 on: July 23, 2011, 01:11:12 pm »
Quote from: Finn;7401
Juniper and Rocquelaire, I'm pretty sure you weren't on that list of people who has access to these Google docs. Am I correct? I'm terribly sorry if I can't remember how long you've been around TC and this project... :o

You're right about me. I've been around TC for about a year and a half but only joined the Cill a few months ago. I'm really keen to get involved in the project in whatever way I can be useful though :).
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rocquelaire

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Group Project: Designing an Ogam Deck
« Reply #9 on: July 23, 2011, 01:36:22 pm »
Quote from: rocquelaire;7404
You're right about me. I've been around TC for about a year and a half but only joined the Cill a few months ago. I'm really keen to get involved in the project in whatever way I can be useful though :).

Sorry, I just realised there's a bit of that post missing. It was supposed to say that since joining the Cill a couple of months ago I've felt pulled to do more divination, especially during my shifts. I read tarot just now but I'm starting to learn about Ogham and other divination tools. Hence being keen to get involved in the project. Hope that makes more sense now!

I don't know what happened with that last post?!
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JuniperMorgan

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Re: Group Project: Designing an Ogam Deck
« Reply #10 on: July 23, 2011, 05:35:31 pm »
Quote from: Finn;7401
Juniper and Rocquelaire, I'm pretty sure you weren't on that list of people who has access to these Google docs. Am I correct? I'm terribly sorry if I can't remember how long you've been around TC and this project... :o

 
Correct for me as well Finn.  I just found TC in Feb, and have only really been able to catch up on posts etc since the migration to this new board.  My email is easily found through my profile :)  Thanks!
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rocquelaire

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Group Project: Designing an Ogam Deck
« Reply #11 on: July 24, 2011, 08:11:46 am »
Quote from: Aster Breo;7398
1)  compile ogam list -- whoever wants to

The best known ogam list is the "tree alphabet" -- and I've seen a few different versions of that.  But pretty much any category of things can be organized as an ogam list.  In Erynn Laurie's book, she gives a color, astronomical object, bird, and musical note, in addition to a tree, for each ogam.  We could just use those, or we could compile our own lists, or a combination.

I like the sound of the list of things from the book. Very comprehensive.

Quote
2)  design "template" for card graphics -- graphic artist(s)

After we decide which ogam lists we want to use, we'd then come up with a standard layout for the graphics we want to use for the cards.  Using Erynn's lists just as an example, I'm thinking this would be something like "center of the card: ogam character; upper center: keyword; lower center: tree; upper right corner: color; upper left corner: planet; lower right corner: bird; lower left corner: musical note."  Each card would have the same type of object in the same places, so they'd be consistent and (hopefully) easier to read and remember.

That's a great example. I think something like that would work really well when we have our list.

Quote
3)  find graphics, lay out cards -- graphic artist(s)

I'm not a graphic artist, so I'm not sure what will go into this step.  But I'm confident there are people here who do know how to do that.  ;)

We'll also have to figure out how to actually produce the decks.  Again, since I'm not a graphic artist, I don't really know what the options are.  Maybe a downloadable PDF that people can print out on cardstock?  Maybe some kind of on-demand, online publishing?  Whatever it is, I assume we'll need to know how that will work out and what kind of file format we'll need in order to finalize the graphics and lay out the cards.

The downloadable PDF (or whatever file type works best) seems like a good idea as long as everyone has a printer. The only problem I can see with that is that it might not be possible to use card with that waxy finish that helps to keep them in good condition. Does anyone have any experience of on demand on-line publishing and the process and costs involved?


Quote
I'd strongly recommend Erynn Laurie's book, Ogam: Weaving Word Wisdom.

I've just ordered the book and will make Reading it a priority when it arrives. I've read a bit about Ogham before, I'm just not as familiar with it as I am with tarot. Hopefully I'll be up to speed in a few weeks :)

Quote
This is going to be fun!  :)

It is indeed :). I'm very excited about this project!
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Aster Breo

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Re: Group Project: Designing an Ogam Deck
« Reply #12 on: August 12, 2011, 03:59:33 am »
Quote from: rocquelaire;7656
I like the sound of the list of things from the book. Very comprehensive.

 
First, general post to everyone:  Does somebody want to volunteer to take the lead on this project and organize it?  

I think that would require beating the bushes to make sure we have everyone who wants to be involved, then getting consensus on a process and managing that process (which will probably entail some nagging, if past projects are any indication  ;) ).  I would be happy to be the organizer or one of a team of organizers, and equally happy to not be an organizer.

Also, about the quoted bit above:  While I really do like the lists Erynn chose to use in the book, I think we should put more thought into what kinds of things we want to use for this deck.  F'ex, Erynn includes a musical note for each ogam feda -- which doesn't really resonate for me.  Ditto (to a certain extent) for the astronomical body.  OTOH, a list of rocks or animals or flowers would feel a lot more useful to me.

Remember, the way the ogam alphabet was used by the druids (from what we know of the history) was as a mnemonic device for remember long lists of things in categories.  That's how we ended up with the tree ogam.  So, since ogam was intended to be a tool that was applied by the individual for specific purposes, it makes more sense to me that we come up with categories that resonate for the members of this group.

I think that means we have to decide what kinds of things we want on the cards to guide our interpretations of spreads or of single cards.  

One way to do this would be for each of us to come up with one or more ogam lists, applying the fid to whatever categories interest us individually.  Then choose however many we want to put on a card.  In my template example upthread, we'd need five lists.

Another possible way would be to decide what categories of questions we think are most likely to be asked by querants, then choose categories of objects that would relate to the questions somehow.  F'ex, common subjects for divination readings include romance, family, money, jobs, homes, and health.  Maybe we'd choose flowers as a good "representative" of romance, maybe rocks would be good for home (thinking about building on a solid foundation), maybe herbs would be good for health, etc.  (Those are just poorly thought-out examples, but I hope they make sense.)

So.........  Does anyone want to volunteer to be the project manager?

~ Aster
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Finn

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Re: Group Project: Designing an Ogam Deck
« Reply #13 on: August 12, 2011, 11:52:18 am »
Quote from: Aster Breo;12399
First, general post to everyone:  Does somebody want to volunteer to take the lead on this project and organize it?  

 

I have to run, so I'll follow up, but I will volunteer for this. I was the one to upload the lists we have and invite everyone so I'm half in this role anyway. :)


Whomever is interested in pursuing this project with us please PM me so I can have a final head count. I have about 9 people on the shared Google docs (and of course everyone is welcome to use them even if they're not interested in the project any more), but I would like to have a list of names based on this thread, not my own inbox. :D:

Thanks!
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Finn

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Re: Group Project: Designing an Ogam Deck
« Reply #14 on: August 12, 2011, 08:09:05 pm »
Quote from: Finn;12427
I have to run, so I'll follow up, but I will volunteer for this.

 
As promised.

I think it would be helpful for all of us, but especially for me, if I draw up a little to-do list. I think we should take each step as it comes, with number 1 being... number one. :D:

Here's what I think we need to do first:


1. Round Up the Gang. This means reading the above post or this one and PMing me to say that you are in. I am going to double-check that everyone who PMs me has access to the Google Docs that includes Erynn Rowan Laurie's interpretations and Aster's notes on Alexei Kontratiev's interpretations.

I'm officially assigning a totally arbitrary deadline of September 1st to PM me.

Then, once we have our team assembled:


2. Round Up What We Have. This means reading (if you already haven't) the above Google Docs and/or Erynn Laurie's Book. I also think we should go back to the source: the ancient ogam lists found in The Ogham Tract in The Scholar's Primer.

I have a couple more books on ogam that offer a wide-range of different interpretations, some more thought-provoking, and some far-fetched than others.

Here are the books I'm talking about:

The Mysteries of Druidry by Brendan Cathbad Myers
The Encyclopedia of Celtic Wisdom by John and Caitlin Matthews
Celtic Wisdom Sticks: An Ogam Oracle by Caitlin Matthews
Ogam: The Celtic Oracle by Paul Rhys Mountfort
The Druidry Handbook by John Michael Greer

If we are interested in exploring what other authors have interpreted the feda as, then I can draw up a couple more lists from my books and we can read them.

I'm officially making a completely arbitrary deadline of reading our Google Docs and the Ogam Tract by September 15th.

Then we need to:


3. Round Up What We Can Do. This means more volunteers! We've said it before, but I want it again: what does everyone want to do, or, how best do you think you can help? Graphic design? Layout? Ogam listmaking? Photoshopping/seeking images? Drawing? 'Official interpretation' writing? Let us know.

I'm officially making this arbitrary deadline September 1st also. Please include what you'd be interested in doing/if you'd like to volunteer in your PM to me. If you've already PMed me with your 'I'm in' message, don't worry about it--you can either post in here or PM me again or whatever you feel like.


That's all I think we should focus on for right now. When the 15th comes, we can reconvene and decide on how we want to move forward with making our own ogam lists (Aster, I really appreciate your suggestions. Let's revisit them when everyone is caught up and has a basic idea of what an ogam list looks like and what kinds of categories we can come up with).

How does this sound, everyone?





**I hope I don't sound too dictatorial or like I'm going too slowly. I just think we need to get onto a firm foundation before we start thinking about what we can do.
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