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Author Topic: Dream Interpretation: Cuthwin Crowe  (Read 4152 times)

Tom

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Re: Dream Interpretation: Cuthwin Crowe
« Reply #15 on: December 01, 2014, 07:48:31 pm »
Quote from: Juniperberry;166564
I should also add that transgenderism was also a thing in Germanic religion. The above was simply a template of understanding.

 
Are you referring to the instances in mythology where deities such as Loki and Odin would change their form to that of the opposite sex or are you referring to specific religious practices? And if is the latter, what are your sources?

(I know you can possibly be referring to the term ergi, but I'm not entirely sure if that could honestly be considered something related to being transgender.)

Valeria Crowe

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Re: Dream Interpretation: Cuthwin Crowe
« Reply #16 on: December 01, 2014, 07:58:12 pm »
Quote from: Juniperberry;166564
For me, dream-houses often represent my ancestral home in the Otherworld, the collective hearth, the symbol of where the family Luck and soul resides.

The fact that you fought something at the border of this property is even more suggestive of that, because it deals with elements of innergard and utgard. The fact that the bear-man respected those boundaries and fought you at the border would mean, for me, that it isn't a malevolent being at all. It could be a sign that there is something worthwhile

 
Now this, this feels right. All of it.

We weren't, I think, right at the boundaries (marked by an old stone wall, made up of stones pulled out of the neighbouring barren) but not far from it at all.

The bear man did feel very neutral in attitude, perhaps slightly respectful at the end.

I suppose the only real thing to do is keep my eyes open for any spiritual happenings in the near future.

Also, I found your conversation with Faemon deeply informative. I feel like I have a lot of reading in my future.
"This is a sorrow-spider. Which end do you hold it by? TRICK QUESTION!"

Juniperberry

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Re: Dream Interpretation: Cuthwin Crowe
« Reply #17 on: December 01, 2014, 09:36:16 pm »
Quote from: Tom;166566
Are you referring to the instances in mythology where deities such as Loki and Odin would change their form to that of the opposite sex or are you referring to specific religious practices? And if is the latter, what are your sources?

That's one example, but I'm talking about the cultural transgenderism among the people. For example, there are examples in grave findings where the costumes and grave goods would seem to indicate that the deceased was a biological male, when in reality the deceased is biologically female. And vice versa.

In Pursuit of Gender: Worldwide Archaeological Approaches is just one article that specifically addresses the examples of transgendered grave finds. "In short, there are virtually no ethnographically recorded cultures that do not exhibit some type of gender mutability. [...] The mortuary record is the most fruitful context for such evidence[.]

Another instance of transgenderism would be in the accounts of shield-maidens and shield-kings. These examples are not as clearly defined as instances of modern transgenderism, but we have to remember the limits of transgenderism in a historical and social context. Peace Unwoven: Transgressive Women in Old Icelandic Heroic and Mythological Literature, and in Saxo Grammaticus’ Grammaticus’ Gesta Danorum is a thesis that touches on the role of women in this context, and there are of course several others.

Lastly, we have the cross-dressing priests in Tacitus as well as in Saxo.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2014, 09:36:40 pm by Juniperberry »
The pace of progress in artificial intelligence (I’m not referring to narrow AI) is incredibly fast. [...] The risk of something seriously dangerous happening is in the five year timeframe. 10 years at most.--Elon Musk

I am in the camp that is concerned about super intelligence," [Bill] Gates wrote. "First the machines will do a lot of jobs for us and not be super intelligent. That should be positive if we manage it well. A few decades after that though the intelligence is strong enough to be a concern. I agree with Elon Musk and some others on this and don\'t understand why some people are not concerned."

Juniperberry

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Re: Dream Interpretation: Cuthwin Crowe
« Reply #18 on: December 01, 2014, 09:48:53 pm »
Quote from: Juniperberry;166572

These examples are not as clearly defined as instances of modern transgenderism, but we have to remember the limits of transgenderism in a historical and social context.


Another thing I wanted to point out along with this, is that transgenderism in a historical context was not always sacred androgyny or spiritually sanctioned. Often it was simply people trying to figure out their own identities in whatever social context they operated in.
The pace of progress in artificial intelligence (I’m not referring to narrow AI) is incredibly fast. [...] The risk of something seriously dangerous happening is in the five year timeframe. 10 years at most.--Elon Musk

I am in the camp that is concerned about super intelligence," [Bill] Gates wrote. "First the machines will do a lot of jobs for us and not be super intelligent. That should be positive if we manage it well. A few decades after that though the intelligence is strong enough to be a concern. I agree with Elon Musk and some others on this and don\'t understand why some people are not concerned."

Juniperberry

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Re: Dream Interpretation: Cuthwin Crowe
« Reply #19 on: December 01, 2014, 09:51:57 pm »
Quote from: Cuthwin Crowe;166567

I suppose the only real thing to do is keep my eyes open for any spiritual happenings in the near future.

Also, I found your conversation with Faemon deeply informative. I feel like I have a lot of reading in my future.


Let me know what happens and what you come across in reading. Pretty interesting dream!
The pace of progress in artificial intelligence (I’m not referring to narrow AI) is incredibly fast. [...] The risk of something seriously dangerous happening is in the five year timeframe. 10 years at most.--Elon Musk

I am in the camp that is concerned about super intelligence," [Bill] Gates wrote. "First the machines will do a lot of jobs for us and not be super intelligent. That should be positive if we manage it well. A few decades after that though the intelligence is strong enough to be a concern. I agree with Elon Musk and some others on this and don\'t understand why some people are not concerned."

Valeria Crowe

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Re: Dream Interpretation: Cuthwin Crowe
« Reply #20 on: December 02, 2014, 09:24:07 am »
Quote from: Juniperberry;166574
Let me know what happens and what you come across in reading. Pretty interesting dream!

 
Well
 Something sure bloody came up!

I just woke from a dream about a parade of old police who refused to die, and I (in waking, mind you) was unable to move. Complete sleep paralysis, first time that has ever happened to me.

I saw a shadow on the ceiling, the shadow of a winged man in profile, who rapidly changed shape a dozen times before vanishing.

For about an hour afterwords, I felt a prescence, a sense od being watched over my shoulder.
"This is a sorrow-spider. Which end do you hold it by? TRICK QUESTION!"

Juniperberry

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Re: Dream Interpretation: Cuthwin Crowe
« Reply #21 on: December 02, 2014, 02:30:07 pm »
Quote from: Cuthwin Crowe;166607
Well
 Something sure bloody came up!

I just woke from a dream about a parade of old police who refused to die, and I (in waking, mind you) was unable to move. Complete sleep paralysis, first time that has ever happened to me.

I saw a shadow on the ceiling, the shadow of a winged man in profile, who rapidly changed shape a dozen times before vanishing.

For about an hour afterwords, I felt a prescence, a sense od being watched over my shoulder.

 
What do you make of it? Do you think the two dreams are connected in a narrative, or simply represent uniquely a similar theme going on in your life?
The pace of progress in artificial intelligence (I’m not referring to narrow AI) is incredibly fast. [...] The risk of something seriously dangerous happening is in the five year timeframe. 10 years at most.--Elon Musk

I am in the camp that is concerned about super intelligence," [Bill] Gates wrote. "First the machines will do a lot of jobs for us and not be super intelligent. That should be positive if we manage it well. A few decades after that though the intelligence is strong enough to be a concern. I agree with Elon Musk and some others on this and don\'t understand why some people are not concerned."

Valeria Crowe

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Re: Dream Interpretation: Cuthwin Crowe
« Reply #22 on: December 02, 2014, 02:34:57 pm »
Quote from: Juniperberry;166643
What do you make of it? Do you think the two dreams are connected in a narrative, or simply represent uniquely a similar theme going on in your life?

 
Oh, this was no dream. I was awake, definitely awake.

And the symbology seems very different, the manner of presentation is different, everything. The bear man was just a symbolic dream. This? I could feel this.

I could feel the figure watching me afterwards.
"This is a sorrow-spider. Which end do you hold it by? TRICK QUESTION!"

Nyktipolos

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Re: Dream Interpretation: Cuthwin Crowe
« Reply #23 on: December 05, 2014, 04:52:13 pm »
Quote from: Juniperberry;166572
That's one example, but I'm talking about the cultural transgenderism among the people. For example, there are examples in grave findings where the costumes and grave goods would seem to indicate that the deceased was a biological male, when in reality the deceased is biologically female. And vice versa.

In Pursuit of Gender: Worldwide Archaeological Approaches is just one article that specifically addresses the examples of transgendered grave finds. "In short, there are virtually no ethnographically recorded cultures that do not exhibit some type of gender mutability. [...] The mortuary record is the most fruitful context for such evidence[.]

Another instance of transgenderism would be in the accounts of shield-maidens and shield-kings. These examples are not as clearly defined as instances of modern transgenderism, but we have to remember the limits of transgenderism in a historical and social context. Peace Unwoven: Transgressive Women in Old Icelandic Heroic and Mythological Literature, and in Saxo Grammaticus’ Grammaticus’ Gesta Danorum is a thesis that touches on the role of women in this context, and there are of course several others.

Lastly, we have the cross-dressing priests in Tacitus as well as in Saxo.
Is that actually signs of transgender people or simply how we interpret symbology in modern times to items in a very gendered way (ie a sword or other battle items = male) being not as complete or reflective to an ancient societ(ies) as we thought we were?
"Though my soul may set in darkness, it will rise in perfect light;
I have loved the stars too fondly to be fearful of the night." - Sarah Williams
On the Rivers

Juniperberry

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Re: Dream Interpretation: Cuthwin Crowe
« Reply #24 on: December 06, 2014, 11:23:58 am »
Quote from: Nyktipolos;166816
Is that actually signs of transgender people or simply how we interpret symbology in modern times to items in a very gendered way (ie a sword or other battle items = male) being not as complete or reflective to an ancient societ(ies) as we thought we were?

That's a good question.

There was an instance mentioned in one article where the anthropologists had found a remarkable grave, full of top-quality female grave goods, set in a place of extreme honor in the burial area. So for some reason they automatically assumed that it represented an important male who had been trans-sacred to the community (because a woman would never be that important?). But nope, DNA testing is coming back conclusive for female. So there are definitely preconceived notions that muddy the waters.

Gender and the Archaeology of Death discusses this though. It isn't always grave goods that define the gender of the deceased but burial position. Functioning males are buried to the right while functioning non-males are buried facing left. I say "functioning"  and "non-male" because that seems to be an important distinction in Germanic society; there was only one positive gender, it was not necessarily based on genitalia but social function, and it was fluid. Certain functions were considered male, and a person could move between male and non-male at different points in his or her life. In fact, all individuals were seen as being a combination of male and non-male attributes. So, while we have a much more binary system of gender, their's may not have been so black and white. A woman buried with a sword is biologically female, but may have functioned as male in her society because she/he had a sword.

Which actually has interesting implications (Between Medieval Men : Male Friendship and Desire in Early Medieval English Literature), if a person was considered non-male, despite his physical gender, then there wouldn't be any social deviance in a male having a relationship with that non-male individual. And I also think it causes us to reconsider the myths. The male gods functioned in male roles, which is what makes them male. Odin functioning in a male role performing seid in that function is a transgression. Loki, has no discernible function, and so the shifts between gender roles is not transgressing.

Mainly, I hope that this supports my original point that while men and women were seen as having different but equally valuable spiritual functions, that these roles weren't fixed for the individual.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2014, 11:24:29 am by Juniperberry »
The pace of progress in artificial intelligence (I’m not referring to narrow AI) is incredibly fast. [...] The risk of something seriously dangerous happening is in the five year timeframe. 10 years at most.--Elon Musk

I am in the camp that is concerned about super intelligence," [Bill] Gates wrote. "First the machines will do a lot of jobs for us and not be super intelligent. That should be positive if we manage it well. A few decades after that though the intelligence is strong enough to be a concern. I agree with Elon Musk and some others on this and don\'t understand why some people are not concerned."

Juniperberry

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Re: Dream Interpretation: Cuthwin Crowe
« Reply #25 on: December 06, 2014, 11:45:31 am »
Quote from: Juniperberry;166868
It isn't always grave goods that define the gender of the deceased but burial position. Functioning males are buried to the right while functioning non-males are buried facing left.


I forgot to mention that placement of grave goods also indicated gender. A weapon at the breast would indicate a male, while a weapon at the pelvis would indicate a female. Or reversed, I don't remember exactly. :)
The pace of progress in artificial intelligence (I’m not referring to narrow AI) is incredibly fast. [...] The risk of something seriously dangerous happening is in the five year timeframe. 10 years at most.--Elon Musk

I am in the camp that is concerned about super intelligence," [Bill] Gates wrote. "First the machines will do a lot of jobs for us and not be super intelligent. That should be positive if we manage it well. A few decades after that though the intelligence is strong enough to be a concern. I agree with Elon Musk and some others on this and don\'t understand why some people are not concerned."

stephyjh

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Re: Dream Interpretation: Cuthwin Crowe
« Reply #26 on: December 06, 2014, 11:28:12 pm »
Quote from: LexTalionis;166447
I am now leaning towards the idea that your Norse and ScottIrish blood is calling your name. If you are waiting on a secondary contact I would not count on it. Those traditions tend to favor the bold. They will open the door but the rest is up to the seeker. So I would try seeking the spirit yourself as its not likely to come to you again if I am guessing right.

As for rum I suggest Kraken, Captain Morgan Tattoo or Black Magic rums.
Pffft. Cruzan 9 ftw.
A heretic blast has been blown in the west,
That what is no sense must be nonsense.

-Robert Burns

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