collapse

* "Unable to verify referring url. Please go back and try again" Problem Logging In?

If you get an "Unable to verify referring url. Please go back and try again" error when you try to log in, you need to be sure you are accessing the board with a url that starts with "https://ecauldron.com".  If it starts with https://www.ecauldron.com" (or "http://www.ecauldron.com") you will get this error because "www.ecauldron.com" is not technically the same website as "ecauldron.com". Moving to the more secure "https" means it is more picky about such things.

Author Topic: Teo Bishop Finds Christianity Again  (Read 3783 times)

Sophia C

  • Grand Master Member
  • *******
  • Join Date: Aug 2012
  • Location: London, UK
  • *
  • Posts: 1968
  • Country: gb
  • Total likes: 5
    • View Profile
    • http://leithincluan.wordpress.com/
  • Religion: Gaelic-tinged polytheism, quite attached to Cailleach Bhearra, Narnian heretic, some Christian stuff
  • Preferred Pronouns: They/them
Teo Bishop Finds Christianity Again
« Reply #15 on: November 24, 2013, 03:42:40 am »
Quote from: Altair;130454
I think you're being way too hard on yourself. We all have emotional reactions to things, and just because it's your "shit, not his" doesn't make the emotional response invalid. And certainly in a thread that specifically asks what the responses are, emotional or otherwise, sharing those responses is expected, not out of line.

The question is: What do you do with that response? If you used it to, say, call up Teo and scream at him, that would obviously be awful. But instead you said it's called out stuff you need to examine. I'd say that's healthy.

I never said having reactions was out of line. I just think there's a lot of unexamined hypocrisy going on here. Like I said, everyone thinks they have the right to criticize Teo's "choices", as thpugh he made them for political or sociological reasons. I don't see these "I have a view on your religious shifts and I am going to shout at you about it because I have the right to be personally offended" type responses when someone goes from Celtic to Heathen practices. I don't see it when a Pagan becomes a Buddhist. This kind of crap only comes out because, eww, Christianity. It makes me fucking angry, because I have Christian practices in my mix and I'm not a traitor to Paganism, and neither is anyone else who combines any mix of beliefs with Pagan ones, or who decides that an 'unpopular' god is calling them. In my opinion these reactions are prejudiced. I have the right to say so in a thread where reactions are being asked for. And by the way, I didn't ask Sage to apologise.
"We're all stories, in the end. Make it a good one, eh?"
- Doctor Who

Sophia C

  • Grand Master Member
  • *******
  • Join Date: Aug 2012
  • Location: London, UK
  • *
  • Posts: 1968
  • Country: gb
  • Total likes: 5
    • View Profile
    • http://leithincluan.wordpress.com/
  • Religion: Gaelic-tinged polytheism, quite attached to Cailleach Bhearra, Narnian heretic, some Christian stuff
  • Preferred Pronouns: They/them
Teo Bishop Finds Christianity Again
« Reply #16 on: November 24, 2013, 03:43:30 am »
Quote from: Sage;130431
What I posted was out of line and uncalled for and I apologize. My own emotional reaction toward Teo's choices are my own to process and deal with and I realize that ultimately, they don't and shouldn't matter to anyone but me. (And the fact part of me is upset says a lot more about me than it does Teo.) I hadn't really examined my feelings about this and the reasoning behind them is both unfounded and unfair. My shit, not his, and not anyone else's. I'd put Teo up on a pedestal and expected things out of him that weren't mine to expect or his to deliver.

I tried writing this out a few times and kept writing sentences with 'buts' in them before I realized you're absolutely right. I can't claim to support people's religious choices and be upset when they make them. What I posted was shitty to say and shitty to think. Teo is more important than other people's conception of him and I'm very and truly sorry for letting my own issues become more important than another human being.

No need to apologise. We both have the right to say what we think.
"We're all stories, in the end. Make it a good one, eh?"
- Doctor Who

Altair

  • Adept Member
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jul 2011
  • Location: New York, New York
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 2933
  • Country: us
  • Total likes: 324
  • Fly high and make the world follow
    • View Profile
    • Songs of the Metamythos
  • Religion: tree-hugging pagan
  • Preferred Pronouns: he/him/his
Re: Teo Bishop Finds Christianity Again
« Reply #17 on: November 24, 2013, 06:53:26 am »
Quote from: Naomi J;130473
I never said having reactions was out of line. I just think there's a lot of unexamined hypocrisy going on here. Like I said, everyone thinks they have the right to criticize Teo's "choices", as thpugh he made them for political or sociological reasons. I don't see these "I have a view on your religious shifts and I am going to shout at you about it because I have the right to be personally offended" type responses when someone goes from Celtic to Heathen practices. I don't see it when a Pagan becomes a Buddhist. This kind of crap only comes out because, eww, Christianity. It makes me fucking angry, because I have Christian practices in my mix and I'm not a traitor to Paganism, and neither is anyone else who combines any mix of beliefs with Pagan ones, or who decides that an 'unpopular' god is calling them. In my opinion these reactions are prejudiced. I have the right to say so in a thread where reactions are being asked for. And by the way, I didn't ask Sage to apologise.


Whoa. My response was to Sage, and the very first sentence said "I think you're being way too hard on yourself." Sophia Catherine, I didn't say that you said that having reactions was out of line. I neither questioned your right to share your thoughts in this thread, nor did I imply anywhere that you'd asked Sage to apologize.

I'm not sure why you took my words to Sage as an affront to you. Maybe I'm misreading the tone of your reply.

The fraught tenor of responses here suggests to me that as much as people don't care about Teo Bishop's life choices, the situation still whacks a nerve for many.
The first song sets the wheel in motion / The second is a song of love / The third song tells of Her devotion / The fourth cries joy from the sky above
The fifth song binds our fate to silence / and bids us live each moment well / The sixth unleashes rage and violence / The seventh song has truth to tell
The last song echoes through the ages / to ask its question all night long / And close the circle on these pages / These, the metamythos songs

Sophia C

  • Grand Master Member
  • *******
  • Join Date: Aug 2012
  • Location: London, UK
  • *
  • Posts: 1968
  • Country: gb
  • Total likes: 5
    • View Profile
    • http://leithincluan.wordpress.com/
  • Religion: Gaelic-tinged polytheism, quite attached to Cailleach Bhearra, Narnian heretic, some Christian stuff
  • Preferred Pronouns: They/them
Teo Bishop Finds Christianity Again
« Reply #18 on: November 24, 2013, 07:15:34 am »
Quote from: Altair;130481
Whoa. My response was to Sage, and the very first sentence said "I think you're being way too hard on yourself." Sophia Catherine, I didn't say that you said that having reactions was out of line. I neither questioned your right to share your thoughts in this thread, nor did I imply anywhere that you'd asked Sage to apologize.

I'm not sure why you took my words to Sage as an affront to you. Maybe I'm misreading the tone of your reply.

The fraught tenor of responses here suggests to me that as much as people don't care about Teo Bishop's life choices, the situation still whacks a nerve for many.

The response from Pagans is what whacks a nerve from me. I wish anyone would acknowledge that it's a poor show of a response

Sorry if I overreacted. I'm stepping away from this thread now.
"We're all stories, in the end. Make it a good one, eh?"
- Doctor Who

RandallS

  • Site Admin
  • *
  • Join Date: Jun 2011
  • Location: NE Ohio
  • Posts: 10172
  • Country: us
  • Total likes: 254
    • View Profile
  • Religion: Hellenic Pagan
Re: Teo Bishop Finds Christianity Again
« Reply #19 on: November 24, 2013, 08:34:46 am »
Quote from: MadZealot;130438
Personally, I agree with this person:  I don’t care about Teo Bishop’s Spiritual Choices (and Neither Should You)

Yes, this blog post pretty much says what I think. I don't see this as some type of betrayal of Pagans any more than I see a Christian changing religions as some type of betrayal of their fellow Christians. Everyone is entitled to follow their own spiritual calling so long as they don't use that calling as an excuse to force others to do something or harm others.
Randall
RetroRoleplaying [Blog]: Microlite74/75/78/81, BX Advanced, and Other Old School Tabletop RPGs
Microlite20: Lots of Rules Lite Tabletop RPGs -- Many Free
OSR.SPACE: Old School Tabletop RPG Community

Nyktipolos

  • Grand Master Member
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jul 2011
  • *
  • Posts: 1498
  • Total likes: 2
    • View Profile
Re: Teo Bishop Finds Christianity Again
« Reply #20 on: November 24, 2013, 07:28:57 pm »
Quote from: Altair;130421
Has there been discussion about this here in the Cauldron? If so, I missed it. From yesterday's NY Times:

An Ex-Mouseketeer’s Journey Back to Christianity From Paganism


http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/23/us/an-ex-mouseketeers-journey-back-to-christianity-from-paganism.html?_r=1&

I don't follow the Big Name Pagan crowd too closely, but even I had heard of this guy and his blog, so this was rather startling. Other than that, my thought is: Whatever works for you, guy.

For those with better connections to the wider pagan world than mine, what have the reactions been? (And again, if there's already a thread for this, I apologize!)

 
My only thought on the subject (other than rolling my eyes at the fact that people apparently keep blogging about it and that they Must Have An Opinion about it) is that I don't know how comfortable I feel about Teo staying on as a writer for pagan blogs when he's no longer pagan. I believe he is allowed to convert or worship any god he chooses, and I will not speak out against that; but if he's choosing to identify as someone who is not pagan, I guess I just don't understand why he doesn't step away from projects like The Wild Hunt? I mean, I wouldn't have a problem if he chose to identify as a Christo-Pagan at all, but at the moment he seems to be saying he's converting to Christianity with all his heart (and once again, I think that's perfectly fine). Why not step back, and allow TWH to hire on a new blogger from the pagan community?
"Though my soul may set in darkness, it will rise in perfect light;
I have loved the stars too fondly to be fearful of the night." - Sarah Williams
On the Rivers

Altair

  • Adept Member
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jul 2011
  • Location: New York, New York
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 2933
  • Country: us
  • Total likes: 324
  • Fly high and make the world follow
    • View Profile
    • Songs of the Metamythos
  • Religion: tree-hugging pagan
  • Preferred Pronouns: he/him/his
Re: Teo Bishop Finds Christianity Again
« Reply #21 on: November 24, 2013, 08:05:11 pm »
Quote from: Nyktipolos;130539
My only thought on the subject (other than rolling my eyes at the fact that people apparently keep blogging about it and that they Must Have An Opinion about it) is that I don't know how comfortable I feel about Teo staying on as a writer for pagan blogs when he's no longer pagan. I believe he is allowed to convert or worship any god he chooses, and I will not speak out against that; but if he's choosing to identify as someone who is not pagan, I guess I just don't understand why he doesn't step away from projects like The Wild Hunt? I mean, I wouldn't have a problem if he chose to identify as a Christo-Pagan at all, but at the moment he seems to be saying he's converting to Christianity with all his heart (and once again, I think that's perfectly fine). Why not step back, and allow TWH to hire on a new blogger from the pagan community?


I think that's what he's now done, actually.
The first song sets the wheel in motion / The second is a song of love / The third song tells of Her devotion / The fourth cries joy from the sky above
The fifth song binds our fate to silence / and bids us live each moment well / The sixth unleashes rage and violence / The seventh song has truth to tell
The last song echoes through the ages / to ask its question all night long / And close the circle on these pages / These, the metamythos songs

MadZealot

  • Adept Member
  • ********
  • Join Date: Nov 2011
  • Location: So Cal
  • Posts: 2453
  • Country: us
  • Total likes: 156
  • Eye yam tu papi.
    • View Profile
  • Religion: Bitter Clinger. Sith Lord.
Re: Teo Bishop Finds Christianity Again
« Reply #22 on: November 24, 2013, 08:23:23 pm »
Quote from: Nyktipolos;130539
I just don't understand why he doesn't step away from projects like The Wild Hunt? I mean, I wouldn't have a problem if he chose to identify as a Christo-Pagan at all, but at the moment he seems to be saying he's converting to Christianity with all his heart (and once again, I think that's perfectly fine).


Teo does say he might indeed end up as a Christo-Pagan.  What I get from his HuffPo piece is that this state of his spirituality is very much one of flux.  Suppose he stays on at TWH; does his identifying as no-longer-Pagan mean he no longer has anything of relevance or value to say to a broader Pagan audience?  If he goes back to the EC, which I understand to be pretty liberal, he can still be pagan friendly, and he's certainly no less qualified to speak on Pagan topics.  I don't know his intentions in this regard, but this is an opportunity for him to take on an interfaith role.
Spider Man 3 never happened. And Epstein didn't kill himself.

stephyjh

  • Grand Master Member
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jul 2011
  • Posts: 1597
  • Total likes: 2
    • View Profile
Re: Teo Bishop Finds Christianity Again
« Reply #23 on: November 25, 2013, 12:13:05 am »
Quote from: Naomi J;130484
The response from Pagans is what whacks a nerve from me. I wish anyone would acknowledge that it's a poor show of a response

Sorry if I overreacted. I'm stepping away from this thread now.

 
I agree with you. I mentioned it in passing on my blog, but I'm going to go on record as saying it again: Christians are not all terrible people, and ex-pagan Christians are not traitors.
A heretic blast has been blown in the west,
That what is no sense must be nonsense.

-Robert Burns

SunflowerP

  • Host
  • *
  • Join Date: Jun 2011
  • Location: Calgary AB
  • Posts: 8277
  • Country: ca
  • Total likes: 256
  • Don't teach your grandmother to suck eggs!
    • View Profile
    • If You Ain't Makin' Waves, You Ain't Kickin' Hard Enough
  • Religion: Eclectic religious Witchcraft
  • Preferred Pronouns: sie/hir/hirs/hirself
Re: Teo Bishop Finds Christianity Again
« Reply #24 on: November 25, 2013, 01:22:17 am »
Quote from: Altair;130545
I think that's what he's now done, actually.

 
Yes, TWH announced Teo's step-down at the beginning of last Wednesday's 'Unleash the Hounds' post.

Sunflower
I'm the AntiFa genderqueer commie eclectic wiccan Mod your alt-right bros warned you about.
I do so have a life; I just live part of it online!
“Selfishness is not living as one wishes to live, it is asking others to live as one wishes to live.” - Oscar Wilde
"Nobody's good at anything until they practice." - Brina (Yewberry)
My much-neglected blog "If You Ain't Makin' Waves, You Ain't Kickin' Hard Enough"

Aiwelin

  • Master Member
  • ******
  • Join Date: Feb 2012
  • Posts: 382
  • Total likes: 2
    • View Profile
Re: Teo Bishop Finds Christianity Again
« Reply #25 on: November 25, 2013, 01:53:27 am »
Quote from: Raincloud;130470
His fellowship and the language he was using was all Northern Hemisphere focussed, when I mentioned, hey some of us are in the Southern Hemisphere, he acted as if I was being a spoilt brat.

Whilst on the surface the solitary Druid Fellowship seemed like a collaboration, it was very much his own vehicle, and if you didn't fit in his concept of it, then I guess too bad. I have no idea if they went on to include the southern hemisphere, because I became inactive shortly after.

 
I was on a bit of a religious hiatus when Teo was starting the Fellowship, so I can't comment on any of that; but the person (Kristin McFarland) who is running it now does seem very open to collaboration and inclusion.  She always posts liturgy for both hemispheres and seems to use inclusive language - as a Northerner, I am not very sensitive to that kind of thing, but I think it's worth it for you to check it out again!

Quote from: MadZealot;130549
Suppose he stays on at TWH; does his identifying as no-longer-Pagan mean he no longer has anything of relevance or value to say to a broader Pagan audience?  If he goes back to the EC, which I understand to be pretty liberal, he can still be pagan friendly, and he's certainly no less qualified to speak on Pagan topics.  I don't know his intentions in this regard, but this is an opportunity for him to take on an interfaith role.

 
On this point, I agree with the quote that Jason from TWH posted - "I can hear Christian voices anywhere, I come here to hear Pagan voices".  I realize that people of other religions, especially those friendly to Paganism, have an interesting perspective; but really, it's not what I go to Pagan media to hear.  Of course, that's me personally, and it may be that there are many more others who would like to hear more about Paganism from other faiths' perspective.
Devotee of Nerthus
Worshipper of Germanic Deities
Now blogging on Patheos Pagan!  Check out Heathen at Heart

In the Nebraska-Iowa area?  Come check out Prairie Shadow Protogrove, ADF!
Ár nDraíocht Féin
The Troth

Sophia C

  • Grand Master Member
  • *******
  • Join Date: Aug 2012
  • Location: London, UK
  • *
  • Posts: 1968
  • Country: gb
  • Total likes: 5
    • View Profile
    • http://leithincluan.wordpress.com/
  • Religion: Gaelic-tinged polytheism, quite attached to Cailleach Bhearra, Narnian heretic, some Christian stuff
  • Preferred Pronouns: They/them
Teo Bishop Finds Christianity Again
« Reply #26 on: November 25, 2013, 02:31:20 am »
Quote from: Nyktipolos;130539
My only thought on the subject (other than rolling my eyes at the fact that people apparently keep blogging about it and that they Must Have An Opinion about it) is that I don't know how comfortable I feel about Teo staying on as a writer for pagan blogs when he's no longer pagan. I believe he is allowed to convert or worship any god he chooses, and I will not speak out against that; but if he's choosing to identify as someone who is not pagan, I guess I just don't understand why he doesn't step away from projects like The Wild Hunt? I mean, I wouldn't have a problem if he chose to identify as a Christo-Pagan at all, but at the moment he seems to be saying he's converting to Christianity with all his heart (and once again, I think that's perfectly fine). Why not step back, and allow TWH to hire on a new blogger from the pagan community?

He's left The Wild Hunt. (There was a strong suggestion that he was 'asked to leave'.)
"We're all stories, in the end. Make it a good one, eh?"
- Doctor Who

Sophia C

  • Grand Master Member
  • *******
  • Join Date: Aug 2012
  • Location: London, UK
  • *
  • Posts: 1968
  • Country: gb
  • Total likes: 5
    • View Profile
    • http://leithincluan.wordpress.com/
  • Religion: Gaelic-tinged polytheism, quite attached to Cailleach Bhearra, Narnian heretic, some Christian stuff
  • Preferred Pronouns: They/them
Teo Bishop Finds Christianity Again
« Reply #27 on: November 25, 2013, 02:33:23 am »
Quote from: Aiwelin;130578
On this point, I agree with the quote that Jason from TWH posted - "I can hear Christian voices anywhere, I come here to hear Pagan voices".  I realize that people of other religions, especially those friendly to Paganism, have an interesting perspective; but really, it's not what I go to Pagan media to hear.  Of course, that's me personally, and it may be that there are many more others who would like to hear more about Paganism from other faiths' perspective.

I woul actually really appreciate hearing more Christo-Pagan voices. They are not the evil importers they are represented as, but an under-represented an arguably oppressed minority within the Pagan community. Whether Teo is the right person to represent them is a different matter entirely.
"We're all stories, in the end. Make it a good one, eh?"
- Doctor Who

stephyjh

  • Grand Master Member
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jul 2011
  • Posts: 1597
  • Total likes: 2
    • View Profile
Re: Teo Bishop Finds Christianity Again
« Reply #28 on: November 25, 2013, 02:57:04 am »
Quote from: Naomi J;130583
I woul actually really appreciate hearing more Christo-Pagan voices. They are not the evil importers they are represented as, but an under-represented an arguably oppressed minority within the Pagan community. Whether Teo is the right person to represent them is a different matter entirely.

 
I think it might be wiser on his part to spend some time piecing together his own beliefs before talking about them publicly, but that's just my experience. I sounded like a babbling idiot talking about my religious beliefs when I didn't have them fully hammered out yet.
A heretic blast has been blown in the west,
That what is no sense must be nonsense.

-Robert Burns

Sophia C

  • Grand Master Member
  • *******
  • Join Date: Aug 2012
  • Location: London, UK
  • *
  • Posts: 1968
  • Country: gb
  • Total likes: 5
    • View Profile
    • http://leithincluan.wordpress.com/
  • Religion: Gaelic-tinged polytheism, quite attached to Cailleach Bhearra, Narnian heretic, some Christian stuff
  • Preferred Pronouns: They/them
Re: Teo Bishop Finds Christianity Again
« Reply #29 on: November 25, 2013, 03:28:56 am »
Quote from: stephyjh;130590
I think it might be wiser on his part to spend some time piecing together his own beliefs before talking about them publicly, but that's just my experience. I sounded like a babbling idiot talking about my religious beliefs when I didn't have them fully hammered out yet.

 
Oh, I agree - he's probably not the right person at the moment. But I don't see anyone else with a high enough profile.
"We're all stories, in the end. Make it a good one, eh?"
- Doctor Who

Tags:
 

Related Topics

  Subject / Started by Replies Last post
1 Replies
1124 Views
Last post September 19, 2012, 05:43:04 pm
by RandallS
1 Replies
867 Views
Last post January 06, 2013, 11:15:53 pm
by Dragonoake
0 Replies
567 Views
Last post September 10, 2013, 01:23:22 pm
by RandallS
1 Replies
944 Views
Last post November 15, 2013, 03:36:37 pm
by RandallS
9 Replies
2776 Views
Last post November 30, 2014, 05:25:32 am
by Redfaery

* Who's Online

  • Dot Guests: 19
  • Dot Hidden: 0
  • Dot Users: 1
  • Dot Users Online:

* Please Donate!

The Cauldron's server is expensive and requires monthly payments. Please become a Bronze, Silver or Gold Donor if you can. Donations are needed every month. Without member support, we can't afford the server.

* In Memoriam

Chavi (2006)
Elspeth (2010)
Marilyn (2013)

* Cauldron Staff

Host:
Sunflower

Message Board Staff
Board Coordinator:
Darkhawk

Assistant Board Coordinator:
Aster Breo

Senior Staff:
Aisling, Jenett, Sefiru

Staff:
Allaya, Chatelaine, EclecticWheel, HarpingHawke, Kylara, PerditaPickle, rocquelaire

Discord Chat Staff
Chat Coordinator:
Morag

Cauldron Council:
Bob, Catja, Emma-Eldritch, Fausta, Jubes, Kelly, LyricFox, Phouka, Sperran, Star, Steve, Tana

Site Administrator:
Randall