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Author Topic: Teo Bishop Finds Christianity Again  (Read 3792 times)

Altair

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Teo Bishop Finds Christianity Again
« on: November 23, 2013, 05:38:20 pm »
Has there been discussion about this here in the Cauldron? If so, I missed it. From yesterday's NY Times:

An Ex-Mouseketeer’s Journey Back to Christianity From Paganism


Quote
But Teo Bishop, while keeping up a career in pop music, accomplished something less predictable and altogether curiouser. Beginning about three years ago, he began a rise to prominence in the Pagan community. Then, last month, he shocked the Pagan community by re-embracing Christianity.

“I’m overwhelmed with thoughts of Jesus,” Mr. Bishop wrote on Oct. 13, on his blog, Bishop in the Grove. “Jesus and God and Christianity and the Lord’s Prayer and compassion and forgiveness and hope. ... I don’t know what to do with all of this.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/23/us/an-ex-mouseketeers-journey-back-to-christianity-from-paganism.html?_r=1&

I don't follow the Big Name Pagan crowd too closely, but even I had heard of this guy and his blog, so this was rather startling. Other than that, my thought is: Whatever works for you, guy.

For those with better connections to the wider pagan world than mine, what have the reactions been? (And again, if there's already a thread for this, I apologize!)
« Last Edit: November 23, 2013, 05:39:40 pm by Altair »
The first song sets the wheel in motion / The second is a song of love / The third song tells of Her devotion / The fourth cries joy from the sky above
The fifth song binds our fate to silence / and bids us live each moment well / The sixth unleashes rage and violence / The seventh song has truth to tell
The last song echoes through the ages / to ask its question all night long / And close the circle on these pages / These, the metamythos songs

Cabal

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Re: Teo Bishop Finds Christianity Again
« Reply #1 on: November 23, 2013, 06:13:05 pm »
Quote from: Altair;130421
Has there been discussion about this here in the Cauldron? If so, I missed it. From yesterday's NY Times:

An Ex-Mouseketeer’s Journey Back to Christianity From Paganism




http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/23/us/an-ex-mouseketeers-journey-back-to-christianity-from-paganism.html?_r=1&

I don't follow the Big Name Pagan crowd too closely, but even I had heard of this guy and his blog, so this was rather startling. Other than that, my thought is: Whatever works for you, guy.

For those with better connections to the wider pagan world than mine, what have the reactions been? (And again, if there's already a thread for this, I apologize!)
I saw this yesterday, interesting read. I guess everyone has to do what is best for them.
"In Hell, everybody loves popcorn."

Sage

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Teo Bishop Finds Christianity Again
« Reply #2 on: November 23, 2013, 06:18:31 pm »
Quote from: Altair;130421
Has there been discussion about this here in the Cauldron? If so, I missed it. From yesterday's NY Times:

An Ex-Mouseketeer’s Journey Back to Christianity From Paganism




http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/23/us/an-ex-mouseketeers-journey-back-to-christianity-from-paganism.html?_r=1&

I don't follow the Big Name Pagan crowd too closely, but even I had heard of this guy and his blog, so this was rather startling. Other than that, my thought is: Whatever works for you, guy.

For those with better connections to the wider pagan world than mine, what have the reactions been? (And again, if there's already a thread for this, I apologize!)

I haven't been looking for reactions but I did see Teo's announcement last month and to be honest I am a little disappointed. But I also realize Teo's in a position where his every move is scrutinized and whether he likes it or not, his BNP status means he and his faith mean things to other people. That's certainly not fair but it is a fact. I remember when Deo and Mandy became atheists several years ago and the sheer amount of entitled bullshit that came up was.. well, disheartening to say the least.

That said, I admit that I'm only human and I'm worried about the political fallout from this. It just irks me to know that there are Christians out there cowing that they 'reclaimed' someone Paganism. (And I realize this isn't Teo's business, what anyone thinks about him. How awful to have your spiritual identity made almost like a bargaining chip... and I say that with full awareness of what I'm typing in this post.)

I'm not gonna lie, it's also not sitting well because not long ago Teo was really involved with the Pagan community and was a big reason I stayed as long as I did with ADF. He left, I didn't have much reason to stay around. It also feels uncomfortable because religion is one of the few places axes of privilege an oppression can change based on our choices, and... well, Christian privilege in America, man. I know it's not cut and dried as that, I know there are Christian groups more oppressed that others, but very irrationally I do feel a little left behind. Which is not Teo's fault, it's mine for putting so much faith in him to... I dunno, help me figure out my own faith by watching him figure out his own.

But Teo is a friend (even if we haven't spoken in awhile) and I wish him the best. I hope he's happy and even though I've expressed my own misgivings here, I really hope other people leave him alone.
Maker, though the darkness comes upon me,
I shall embrace the light. I shall weather the storm.
I shall endure.
What you have created, no one can tear asunder.

-Canticle of Trials 1:10

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Teo Bishop Finds Christianity Again
« Reply #3 on: November 23, 2013, 06:23:50 pm »
Quote from: Altair;130421
Has there been discussion about this here in the Cauldron? If so, I missed it. From yesterday's NY Times:

An Ex-Mouseketeer’s Journey Back to Christianity From Paganism




http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/23/us/an-ex-mouseketeers-journey-back-to-christianity-from-paganism.html?_r=1&

I don't follow the Big Name Pagan crowd too closely, but even I had heard of this guy and his blog, so this was rather startling. Other than that, my thought is: Whatever works for you, guy.

For those with better connections to the wider pagan world than mine, what have the reactions been? (And again, if there's already a thread for this, I apologize!)

Reactions have been disgusting (in my opinion). Everyone thinks they have a right to criticize, or say how 'betrayed' they feel, or another variation on how it's all about them them them with a side-order of Christian-bashing.
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Teo Bishop Finds Christianity Again
« Reply #4 on: November 23, 2013, 06:28:33 pm »
Quote from: Sage;130425
That said, I admit that I'm only human and I'm worried about the political fallout from this. It just irks me to know that there are Christians out there cowing that they 'reclaimed' someone Paganism. (And I realize this isn't Teo's business, what anyone thinks about him. How awful to have your spiritual identity made almost like a bargaining chip... and I say that with full awareness of what I'm typing in this post.)

I'm not gonna lie, it's also not sitting well because not long ago Teo was really involved with the Pagan community and was a big reason I stayed as long as I did with ADF. He left, I didn't have much reason to stay around. It also feels uncomfortable because religion is one of the few places axes of privilege an oppression can change based on our choices, and... well, Christian privilege in America, man. I know it's not cut and dried as that, I know there are Christian groups more oppressed that others, but very irrationally I do feel a little left behind. Which is not Teo's fault, it's mine for putting so much faith in him to... I dunno, help me figure out my own faith by watching him figure out his own.

And the fact that Christian privilege exists in America is a reason for Teo to deny a call from a god, is it? I don't know about you, but I don't make religious and spiritual decisions based on political motivations. I'm also not gay for political motivations, or disabled. These aren't hipster choices.

The majority of the political fallout and bad behaviour I've seen in response to this hasn't been from Christians. It's been from Pagans.
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Sage

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Re: Teo Bishop Finds Christianity Again
« Reply #5 on: November 23, 2013, 07:30:37 pm »
Quote from: Naomi J;130428
And the fact that Christian privilege exists in America is a reason for Teo to deny a call from a god, is it? I don't know about you, but I don't make religious and spiritual decisions based on political motivations. I'm also not gay for political motivations, or disabled. These aren't hipster choices.

The majority of the political fallout and bad behaviour I've seen in response to this hasn't been from Christians. It's been from Pagans.

 
What I posted was out of line and uncalled for and I apologize. My own emotional reaction toward Teo's choices are my own to process and deal with and I realize that ultimately, they don't and shouldn't matter to anyone but me. (And the fact part of me is upset says a lot more about me than it does Teo.) I hadn't really examined my feelings about this and the reasoning behind them is both unfounded and unfair. My shit, not his, and not anyone else's. I'd put Teo up on a pedestal and expected things out of him that weren't mine to expect or his to deliver.

I tried writing this out a few times and kept writing sentences with 'buts' in them before I realized you're absolutely right. I can't claim to support people's religious choices and be upset when they make them. What I posted was shitty to say and shitty to think. Teo is more important than other people's conception of him and I'm very and truly sorry for letting my own issues become more important than another human being.
Maker, though the darkness comes upon me,
I shall embrace the light. I shall weather the storm.
I shall endure.
What you have created, no one can tear asunder.

-Canticle of Trials 1:10

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Altair

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Re: Teo Bishop Finds Christianity Again
« Reply #6 on: November 23, 2013, 07:47:42 pm »
Quote from: Naomi J;130428

The majority of the political fallout and bad behaviour I've seen in response to this hasn't been from Christians. It's been from Pagans.


Well obviously you're not going to see bad behavior on the part of Christians in response to this. Now, if he'd been a Big Name Christian who decided to become a druid...well, you can just imagine what reactions from certain Christians would flow from that.

A lot of pagans have an unfortunate history with Christianity. I'm not surprised that this would hit them hard.
The first song sets the wheel in motion / The second is a song of love / The third song tells of Her devotion / The fourth cries joy from the sky above
The fifth song binds our fate to silence / and bids us live each moment well / The sixth unleashes rage and violence / The seventh song has truth to tell
The last song echoes through the ages / to ask its question all night long / And close the circle on these pages / These, the metamythos songs

dionysiandame

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Re: Teo Bishop Finds Christianity Again
« Reply #7 on: November 23, 2013, 08:07:40 pm »
Quote from: Altair;130421
Has there been discussion about this here in the Cauldron? If so, I missed it. From yesterday's NY Times:

An Ex-Mouseketeer’s Journey Back to Christianity From Paganism




http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/23/us/an-ex-mouseketeers-journey-back-to-christianity-from-paganism.html?_r=1&

I don't follow the Big Name Pagan crowd too closely, but even I had heard of this guy and his blog, so this was rather startling. Other than that, my thought is: Whatever works for you, guy.

For those with better connections to the wider pagan world than mine, what have the reactions been? (And again, if there's already a thread for this, I apologize!)


Damn. I didn't care when I first heard about it and I still don't care now. *shrug*
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MadZealot

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Re: Teo Bishop Finds Christianity Again
« Reply #8 on: November 23, 2013, 08:09:50 pm »
Quote from: Naomi J;130428
The majority of the political fallout and bad behaviour I've seen in response to this hasn't been from Christians. It's been from Pagans.

I haven't found much discussion on Christian sites.  And, seriously, any Christians who know (or care) about Teo's conversion may be seriously thankful for the state of the man's soul as opposed to happily scoring points.  Because surprisingly, many Christians don't treat religion like football.

Personally, I agree with this person:  I don’t care about Teo Bishop’s Spiritual Choices (and Neither Should You)
« Last Edit: November 23, 2013, 08:14:06 pm by MadZealot »
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Re: Teo Bishop Finds Christianity Again
« Reply #9 on: November 23, 2013, 08:16:34 pm »
Quote from: Altair;130421

I don't follow the Big Name Pagan crowd too closely, but even I had heard of this guy and his blog, so this was rather startling. Other than that, my thought is: Whatever works for you, guy.

For those with better connections to the wider pagan world than mine, what have the reactions been? (And again, if there's already a thread for this, I apologize!)

 
I tend to avoid the BNPs as much as possible.  Generally, I get snarky commentary in chat of the latest pagan blogosphere shitstorm and that's it.  I'm aware that this guy at least exists, though that's pretty much all I know about him.  So mostly I'm just 'meh.'


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Re: Teo Bishop Finds Christianity Again
« Reply #10 on: November 23, 2013, 08:17:04 pm »
Quote from: dionysiandame;130437
Damn. I didn't care when I first heard about it and I still don't care now. *shrug*

 
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stephyjh

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Teo Bishop Finds Christianity Again
« Reply #11 on: November 23, 2013, 10:03:06 pm »
Quote from: Altair;130421
Has there been discussion about this here in the Cauldron? If so, I missed it. From yesterday's NY Times:

An Ex-Mouseketeer’s Journey Back to Christianity From Paganism




http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/23/us/an-ex-mouseketeers-journey-back-to-christianity-from-paganism.html?_r=1&

I don't follow the Big Name Pagan crowd too closely, but even I had heard of this guy and his blog, so this was rather startling. Other than that, my thought is: Whatever works for you, guy.

For those with better connections to the wider pagan world than mine, what have the reactions been? (And again, if there's already a thread for this, I apologize!)

If Teo has found something that works for him and has gotten a call he feels compelled to answer, more power to him. His contributions to our community won't go away just because he's been thwapped by a deity who expects monotheism. I hope it gives him peace.
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That what is no sense must be nonsense.

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Altair

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Re: Teo Bishop Finds Christianity Again
« Reply #12 on: November 23, 2013, 11:33:48 pm »
Quote from: Sage;130431
What I posted was out of line and uncalled for and I apologize. My own emotional reaction toward Teo's choices are my own to process and deal with and I realize that ultimately, they don't and shouldn't matter to anyone but me. (And the fact part of me is upset says a lot more about me than it does Teo.) I hadn't really examined my feelings about this and the reasoning behind them is both unfounded and unfair. My shit, not his, and not anyone else's. I'd put Teo up on a pedestal and expected things out of him that weren't mine to expect or his to deliver.

I tried writing this out a few times and kept writing sentences with 'buts' in them before I realized you're absolutely right. I can't claim to support people's religious choices and be upset when they make them. What I posted was shitty to say and shitty to think. Teo is more important than other people's conception of him and I'm very and truly sorry for letting my own issues become more important than another human being.


I think you're being way too hard on yourself. We all have emotional reactions to things, and just because it's your "shit, not his" doesn't make the emotional response invalid. And certainly in a thread that specifically asks what the responses are, emotional or otherwise, sharing those responses is expected, not out of line.

The question is: What do you do with that response? If you used it to, say, call up Teo and scream at him, that would obviously be awful. But instead you said it's called out stuff you need to examine. I'd say that's healthy.
The first song sets the wheel in motion / The second is a song of love / The third song tells of Her devotion / The fourth cries joy from the sky above
The fifth song binds our fate to silence / and bids us live each moment well / The sixth unleashes rage and violence / The seventh song has truth to tell
The last song echoes through the ages / to ask its question all night long / And close the circle on these pages / These, the metamythos songs

Enid

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Re: Teo Bishop Finds Christianity Again
« Reply #13 on: November 23, 2013, 11:38:06 pm »
Quote from: Altair;130421
Has there been discussion about this here in the Cauldron? If so, I missed it. From yesterday's NY Times:

An Ex-Mouseketeer’s Journey Back to Christianity From Paganism

 
I find it interesting that in our culture we can develop such strong reactions to someone's religious choices. On one hand, it doesn't really effect me much that Mr. Bishop has chosen this path. But on the other hand, I can see how someone could take it personally, if for no other reason than they might have doubts about their own beliefs and act out without fully understanding why.
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Re: Teo Bishop Finds Christianity Again
« Reply #14 on: November 24, 2013, 03:16:57 am »
Quote from: Altair;130421
Has there been discussion about this here in the Cauldron? If so, I missed it.


I have no problem with any pagan going back to Christianity.

My problem is more that I think Teo Bishop is a giant douche-bag and I made that opinion 6-7 months ago when I tried interacting with him during his ADF solitary Druid fellowship phase.

Whilst it's been mentioned someone here stayed on at ADF because of him, I am one of the many people who became inactive at ADF because of his celebrity, the high esteem it purchased for him, but also his behaviour. (On the surface all sunshine, but a rather narcissistic under-tone that only a celeb has)

Someone has described him as having a shit eating grin. I think that's accurate.

His fellowship and the language he was using was all Northern Hemisphere focussed, when I mentioned, hey some of us are in the Southern Hemisphere, he acted as if I was being a spoilt brat.

Whilst on the surface the solitary Druid Fellowship seemed like a collaboration, it was very much his own vehicle, and if you didn't fit in his concept of it, then I guess too bad. I have no idea if they went on to include the southern hemisphere, because I became inactive shortly after.

Some douche-bag pagan goes back to be Christian. I don't care.

What concerns me more is:

  • The Pagan Communities Pathetic love of Celebs in the midst
  • The people who left their religion because the ever popular Teo was elevated to certain positions in ADF and people were shunted aside
  • The fact that it was all over so quickly and publicly.

 
Who am I? A nobody.

I honestly don't care about Teo, just generally depressed about the human race and it's many emanations such as the pagan community.

But I guess Druids loved having their own Tom Cruise for a little while. Certainly gave something for the professional bloggers to chatter about.

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