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Author Topic: Satanic Black Mass at Harvard Canceled  (Read 7997 times)

Altair

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Re: Satanic Black Mass at Harvard Canceled
« Reply #15 on: May 16, 2014, 11:26:19 am »
Quote from: Jabberwocky;147671
I strongly suspect the sensationalism is a feature, not a bug.  They're stuntists, deliberately using provocation as a way of making their point.
 
Which is great, I've always liked that approach.  (They remind me of some of the 60's countercultural groups in an odd way).  But, equally, I'm not going to get too worked up about this being cancelled or them being attacked in the press.  Not when I think that this was their aim all along.

 
Yup. They remind me of ACT UP of the '80s, but without the passion born of life-and-death stakes.
The first song sets the wheel in motion / The second is a song of love / The third song tells of Her devotion / The fourth cries joy from the sky above
The fifth song binds our fate to silence / and bids us live each moment well / The sixth unleashes rage and violence / The seventh song has truth to tell
The last song echoes through the ages / to ask its question all night long / And close the circle on these pages / These, the metamythos songs

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Re: Satanic Black Mass at Harvard Canceled
« Reply #16 on: May 16, 2014, 05:56:44 pm »
Quote from: Darkhawk;147638
Hah, I was just opening up this thread to post that link...

(Clearly I need to read through my RSS reader faster!  But Thursdays, ugh.)

 
Though I can come in with this one now!

http://www.religiondispatches.org/archive/atheologies/7880/a_catholic_s_eulogy_for_the_harvard__black_mass__controversy/
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Re: Satanic Black Mass at Harvard Canceled
« Reply #17 on: May 16, 2014, 07:59:40 pm »
“Castus, meanwhile, goes straight for the bad theology like one of those creepy fish that swims up streams of pee.” — Darkhawk

mandrina

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Re: Satanic Black Mass at Harvard Canceled
« Reply #18 on: May 17, 2014, 12:57:40 am »
Quote from: Castus;147696
Tripe >.>

 
Why?
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Re: Satanic Black Mass at Harvard Canceled
« Reply #19 on: May 17, 2014, 04:10:56 am »
Quote from: Castus;147696
Tripe >.>

I thought it was excellent. Really open-minded interfaith thinking.
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Re: Satanic Black Mass at Harvard Canceled
« Reply #20 on: May 17, 2014, 08:55:07 am »
Quote from: Castus;147696
Tripe >.>

Why do you think it's tripe?
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Re: Satanic Black Mass at Harvard Canceled
« Reply #21 on: May 17, 2014, 01:13:59 pm »
Quote from: Altair;147676
Yup. They remind me of ACT UP of the '80s, but without the passion born of life-and-death stakes.


There's that, yes.  I have a hard time working up too much sympathy for Satanists.  

They don't like Christianity.  That's understandable.  However, by worshiping Satan, a being created by Christians, they are basically allowing their enemy to set their agenda.  They are practicing a spirituality defined by the Christianity they profess to hate.

I believe in the Law of Attraction, and fundamental to LoA is thinking about and focusing on what you want, not pushing against what you don't want.  Rather than seeing anti-Christianity, I'd rather see pro-whatever it is that Satanists actually believe (which I understand is all over the map, from Joy of Satan to LaVey to "me-firsters" like Ayn Rand followers who missed the part about her not believing in any spirituality whatsoever, etc.)

In short, I can view it mostly favorably if it's a political stunt designed to draw attention to the special privileges accorded to Christianity by the contemporary American polity.  If it's intended to be an exercise in genuine spirituality, not so much.

Melamphoros

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Re: Satanic Black Mass at Harvard Canceled
« Reply #22 on: May 17, 2014, 02:44:38 pm »
Quote from: Shakas;147762
However, by worshiping Satan, a being created by Christians,

 
Satan predates Christianity.


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Re: Satanic Black Mass at Harvard Canceled
« Reply #23 on: May 17, 2014, 02:46:50 pm »
Quote from: Shakas;147762
There's that, yes.  I have a hard time working up too much sympathy for Satanists.  

They don't like Christianity.  That's understandable.  However, by worshiping Satan, a being created by Christians, they are basically allowing their enemy to set their agenda.  They are practicing a spirituality defined by the Christianity they profess to hate.

I believe in the Law of Attraction, and fundamental to LoA is thinking about and focusing on what you want, not pushing against what you don't want.  Rather than seeing anti-Christianity, I'd rather see pro-whatever it is that Satanists actually believe (which I understand is all over the map, from Joy of Satan to LaVey to "me-firsters" like Ayn Rand followers who missed the part about her not believing in any spirituality whatsoever, etc.)

In short, I can view it mostly favorably if it's a political stunt designed to draw attention to the special privileges accorded to Christianity by the contemporary American polity.  If it's intended to be an exercise in genuine spirituality, not so much.

So basically, you don't have any sympathy with them because you think they don't make use of the approach you believe in (LoA), even though you know so little about the approaches they do use that you think 'worshipping a being created by Christians' is a common feature. (Hint: exceedingly few Satanists do. See also, what Melamphoros said.)

It also sounds like you object to a lack of a single unified Satanism. But why should the word 'Satanism' necessarily refer to a single unified system, any more than 'Paganism' does?

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« Last Edit: May 17, 2014, 02:48:12 pm by SunflowerP »
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Jabberwocky

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Re: Satanic Black Mass at Harvard Canceled
« Reply #24 on: May 17, 2014, 03:38:32 pm »
Quote from: Shakas;147762

I believe in the Law of Attraction


Which has it's origins in the primarily Christian "New Thought movement".  If we apply your arguments consistently, surely that makes you a Christian, not a Pagan?
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Re: Satanic Black Mass at Harvard Canceled
« Reply #25 on: May 17, 2014, 04:29:28 pm »
Quote from: SunflowerP;147781
So basically, you don't have any sympathy with them because you think they don't make use of the approach you believe in (LoA), even though you know so little about the approaches they do use that you think 'worshipping a being created by Christians' is a common feature. (Hint: exceedingly few Satanists do. See also, what Melamphoros said.)

 
And, as discussed in at least one of the links posted to this very thread, the relevant group in question doesn't worship anyone, given that they are, in fact, atheists.
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we shine like stars    - Covenant, "Bullet"

Emma Eldritch

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Re: Satanic Black Mass at Harvard Canceled
« Reply #26 on: May 17, 2014, 05:48:58 pm »
Quote from: Shakas;147762
There's that, yes.  I have a hard time working up too much sympathy for Satanists.  

They don't like Christianity.  That's understandable.  However, by worshiping Satan, a being created by Christians, they are basically allowing their enemy to set their agenda.  They are practicing a spirituality defined by the Christianity they profess to hate.

I believe in the Law of Attraction, and fundamental to LoA is thinking about and focusing on what you want, not pushing against what you don't want.  Rather than seeing anti-Christianity, I'd rather see pro-whatever it is that Satanists actually believe (which I understand is all over the map, from Joy of Satan to LaVey to "me-firsters" like Ayn Rand followers who missed the part about her not believing in any spirituality whatsoever, etc.)

In short, I can view it mostly favorably if it's a political stunt designed to draw attention to the special privileges accorded to Christianity by the contemporary American polity.  If it's intended to be an exercise in genuine spirituality, not so much.

 
I have no issue with Satanists. They at least seem to know how to have a fun time.

While I believe this particular Black Mass and the totally badass Baphomet statue kerfuffle are designed to draw attention to the unfair and vaguely creepy influence Christianity has on supposedly secular institutions, I still think it's a bit dickish to look down on other people who may find the Black Mass genuinely spiritual. I mean, I'm sure someone out there does, although as stated by others this group appears to be comprised of atheists/secular humanists.

I won't say the law of attraction is utter balls, but I will say that there is power in subverting a powerful rite. Hell, there's just power in plain old being naughty. On a mundane level, just thinking positively doesn't always work - sometimes you do need to push against what you DON'T want. There's good things to be said for deliberate conflict.

Aspiria

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Re: Satanic Black Mass at Harvard Canceled
« Reply #27 on: May 17, 2014, 09:41:57 pm »
Quote from: Melamphoros;147779
Satan predates Christianity.

 
You and Sunflower both said Satan predates Christianity. This is the first time I've heard of that. Do you have any sources I could read for more information?

I enjoy learning and this is interesting.

Thank you.

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Re: Satanic Black Mass at Harvard Canceled
« Reply #28 on: May 17, 2014, 09:50:56 pm »
Quote from: Aspiria;147844
You and Sunflower both said Satan predates Christianity. This is the first time I've heard of that. Do you have any sources I could read for more information?

 
Well, Satan shows up in the Old Testament, for one - just look at the book of Job. The books of the Hebrew Bible definitely predate Christianity.
Maker, though the darkness comes upon me,
I shall embrace the light. I shall weather the storm.
I shall endure.
What you have created, no one can tear asunder.

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Re: Satanic Black Mass at Harvard Canceled
« Reply #29 on: May 18, 2014, 01:23:36 am »
Quote from: Sage;147845
Well, Satan shows up in the Old Testament, for one - just look at the book of Job. The books of the Hebrew Bible definitely predate Christianity.

 
LOL, yes, Sage has that right. Job's the big one but there's a couple of places you can look. Specifically there are two that use "satan" with a definite article, as a title:

Job 1-2, where God encourages Satan to go be a dick to Job.
Zechariah 3:1-2

There are others where it's sometimes translated as Satan or devil and others that are usually translated simply as adversary, but the word comes from the Hebrew. Wikipedia has a good list to get you started if you want to poke around.
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