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Author Topic: Russian Orthodox Church Splits From Constantinople  (Read 401 times)

Demophon

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Russian Orthodox Church Splits From Constantinople
« on: October 23, 2018, 05:01:43 pm »
Typical Easterners and their schismatic hysterics. The need the Petrine ministry of Rome to keep the whole Church unified  :P

Just kidding, it's a lot more complicated than that. As always, there are power struggles and petty disputes going on, in this case over the Orthodox Church in Ukraine, which traditionally has been under the domain of the ROC, but Constantinople has been moving towards giving them autonomy. It's unfortunate, as the Russian Orthodoxy is a significant Church within the greater Eastern Orthodox Church, and probably the largest Church in terms of membership, in communion with Constantinople. Unfortunately, schisms in the whole Church seem to just keep getting worse.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-45870939?fbclid=IwAR1HnsBll80X9RIFnr386q6G4kuDGruzjYNrcuz8kLYjYuUnCBtj8jwP6NY

Hariti

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Re: Russian Orthodox Church Splits From Constantinople
« Reply #1 on: October 23, 2018, 10:41:18 pm »

I'm literally speechless. You could've told me that the Jews rebuilt the temple, or that China renounced communism, or that the Anglican Church had reestablished communion with Rome, and I would be less surprised.

This is probably the biggest thing that's happened, religiously, since the reformation. I don't think it's a good thing, either, since it's going to divide Orthodox parishes all over the world, where Russians and Greeks take communion together. This is going to be really bad for expat communities.

Why the hell do people care so much about nationalism, that they're willing to destroy their church over it?
"The worshippers of the gods go to them; to the manes go the ancestor-worshippers; to the Deities who preside over the elements go their worshippers; My devotees come to Me." ... "Whichever devotee desires to adore whatever such Deity with faith, in all such votaries I make that particular faith unshakable. Endowed with that faith, a votary performs the worship of that particular deity and obtains the fruits thereof, these being granted by Me alone." - Sri Krishna

ehbowen

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Re: Russian Orthodox Church Splits From Constantinople
« Reply #2 on: October 24, 2018, 07:06:09 am »
I'm literally speechless. You could've told me that the Jews rebuilt the temple, or that China renounced communism, or that the Anglican Church had reestablished communion with Rome, and I would be less surprised...Why the hell do people care so much about nationalism, that they're willing to destroy their church over it?

Well, at least they're letting you know where their real priorities lie.

"They are not of the world, just as I am not of the world (John 17:16, NKJV)."

"Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16 For all that is in the world—the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life—is not of the Father but is of the world. 17 And the world is passing away, and the lust of it; but he who does the will of God abides forever (1 John 2:15-17, NKJV)."
--------Eric H. Bowen
Where's the KABOOM? There was supposed to have been an Earth-shattering KABOOM!

Chatelaine

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Re: Russian Orthodox Church Splits From Constantinople
« Reply #3 on: October 24, 2018, 08:37:50 am »
I'm literally speechless. You could've told me that the Jews rebuilt the temple, or that China renounced communism, or that the Anglican Church had reestablished communion with Rome, and I would be less surprised.

This is probably the biggest thing that's happened, religiously, since the reformation. I don't think it's a good thing, either, since it's going to divide Orthodox parishes all over the world, where Russians and Greeks take communion together. This is going to be really bad for expat communities.

Why the hell do people care so much about nationalism, that they're willing to destroy their church over it?

This is why the Church is not supposed to speak from a position of power, ever.

The EP has made it clear that the split is unilateral and the Russian faithful are still welcome to commune in EP parishes. The only major jurisdiction affected (read: may need to check affiliation before communing) currently is the ROCOR.
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Hariti

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Re: Russian Orthodox Church Splits From Constantinople
« Reply #4 on: October 24, 2018, 02:55:40 pm »
The EP has made it clear that the split is unilateral and the Russian faithful are still welcome to commune in EP parishes. The only major jurisdiction affected (read: may need to check affiliation before communing) currently is the ROCOR.

Well, them and the ROC itself. I feel really bad for the Russian priests and laity who can't take communion at local churches when they go on pilgrimage! If a priest is caught taking communion at Mt. Athos, for example, he could be excommunicated. The same goes for Constantinople, Jerusalem, or anywhere else under the control of the Ecumenical Patriarchate.
"The worshippers of the gods go to them; to the manes go the ancestor-worshippers; to the Deities who preside over the elements go their worshippers; My devotees come to Me." ... "Whichever devotee desires to adore whatever such Deity with faith, in all such votaries I make that particular faith unshakable. Endowed with that faith, a votary performs the worship of that particular deity and obtains the fruits thereof, these being granted by Me alone." - Sri Krishna

Hariti

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Re: Russian Orthodox Church Splits From Constantinople
« Reply #5 on: October 24, 2018, 02:58:27 pm »
This is why the Church is not supposed to speak from a position of power, ever.

I'm curious, which church are you referring to in this case, the Ecumenical Patriarch, or the Moscow Metropolitan?

It seems to me that both churches are trying to use their religious authority to strong-arm people into accepting their political agenda.
"The worshippers of the gods go to them; to the manes go the ancestor-worshippers; to the Deities who preside over the elements go their worshippers; My devotees come to Me." ... "Whichever devotee desires to adore whatever such Deity with faith, in all such votaries I make that particular faith unshakable. Endowed with that faith, a votary performs the worship of that particular deity and obtains the fruits thereof, these being granted by Me alone." - Sri Krishna

Chatelaine

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Re: Russian Orthodox Church Splits From Constantinople
« Reply #6 on: October 24, 2018, 06:41:13 pm »
I'm curious, which church are you referring to in this case, the Ecumenical Patriarch, or the Moscow Metropolitan?

It seems to me that both churches are trying to use their religious authority to strong-arm people into accepting their political agenda.

I mean the Church as a whole, regardless of jurisdiction. I can't say whether the EP overstepped in supporting autocephaly for the UOC, but the MP's closeness to an increasingly authoritarian government was creating unease in Orthodox circles even before the Crimean crisis.
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Hariti

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Re: Russian Orthodox Church Splits From Constantinople
« Reply #7 on: October 24, 2018, 07:04:58 pm »
I mean the Church as a whole, regardless of jurisdiction. I can't say whether the EP overstepped in supporting autocephaly for the UOC, but the MP's closeness to an increasingly authoritarian government was creating unease in Orthodox circles even before the Crimean crisis.

Well, I hope that the church can mend this schism before it becomes permanent. It would be a shame for 21st century politics to dismantle a church that's stood united for a millennium, through the Mongols, the Ottomans, two world wars, and the Cold War.
"The worshippers of the gods go to them; to the manes go the ancestor-worshippers; to the Deities who preside over the elements go their worshippers; My devotees come to Me." ... "Whichever devotee desires to adore whatever such Deity with faith, in all such votaries I make that particular faith unshakable. Endowed with that faith, a votary performs the worship of that particular deity and obtains the fruits thereof, these being granted by Me alone." - Sri Krishna

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