collapse

Author Topic: Pope Tells Gay Man "God Made You This Way"  (Read 1209 times)

Altair

  • Adept Member
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jul 2011
  • Location: New York, New York
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 3072
  • Country: us
  • Total likes: 445
  • Fly high and make the world follow
    • View Profile
    • Songs of the Metamythos
  • Religion: tree-hugging pagan
  • Preferred Pronouns: he/him/his
Pope Tells Gay Man "God Made You This Way"
« on: May 23, 2018, 07:04:06 pm »
Yawn.

‘God Made You This Way,’ Pope Is Said to Have Told Gay Man
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/21/world/europe/pope-francis-gays-god-made-you-this-way-.html

Once again, the words of this Catholic pontiff are taken by those who hear what they desperately want to hear as Something New, leaving them all aflutter.

But this is the same line the Catholic church has taken for decades, if not longer. They acknowledge that a homosexual orientation occurs in nature--"God made you this way"--but the follow-up is unchanged--"and the Lord gave you this challenge, to which the only blessed, righteous response is to deny those natural-for-you-but-intrinsically-disordered inclinations; to deny yourself romantic love and any sex, forever; and instead consign yourself to a lifetime of celibacy."

[i.e., become a Catholic priest, because where do you think we're supposed to get our new recruits from, and this whole modern living-a-happy-and-fulfilled-openly-gay-life thing is really fucking with our talent pool, as our ranks dwindle. OK, so that last part isn't part of official Catholic dogma, but do the math.]

Meanwhile, the political course of this church is unaltered, as it consistently inserts itself into governments and lawmaking wherever possible to try to make sure we gay folks never have the same rights as it embraces for its flock--even though god made us this way.

But that's OK, because they love us.

Give him points for getting certain gullible liberals to ovulate over yet another kinder, gentler pronouncement.

Meanwhile, in other news:

Australian Archbishop Philip Wilson Guilty of Sexual Abuse Cover-Up
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/21/world/australia/philip-wilson-priest-abuse-guilty.html
The first song sets the wheel in motion / The second is a song of love / The third song tells of Her devotion / The fourth cries joy from the sky above
The fifth song binds our fate to silence / and bids us live each moment well / The sixth unleashes rage and violence / The seventh song has truth to tell
The last song echoes through the ages / to ask its question all night long / And close the circle on these pages / These, the metamythos songs

MadZealot

  • Adept Member
  • ********
  • Join Date: Nov 2011
  • Location: So Cal
  • Posts: 2483
  • Country: us
  • Total likes: 191
  • Eye yam tu papi.
    • View Profile
  • Religion: Bitter Clinger. Sith Lord.
Re: Pope Tells Gay Man "God Made You This Way"
« Reply #1 on: May 23, 2018, 09:00:46 pm »
Yawn.

Bishop Frank is talking again?
Time to change the channel.
Oh, is it time again to say "Fuck Trump gently in the ear with a swarm of pissed-off hornets?"?

Okay. Fuck Trump gently in the ear with a swarm of pissed-off hornets.

SunflowerP

  • Host
  • *
  • Join Date: Jun 2011
  • Location: Calgary AB
  • Posts: 8885
  • Country: ca
  • Total likes: 374
  • Don't teach your grandmother to suck eggs!
    • View Profile
    • If You Ain't Makin' Waves, You Ain't Kickin' Hard Enough
  • Religion: Eclectic religious Witchcraft
  • Preferred Pronouns: sie/hir/hirs/hirself
Re: Pope Tells Gay Man "God Made You This Way"
« Reply #2 on: May 24, 2018, 05:49:29 pm »
Once again, the words of this Catholic pontiff are taken by those who hear what they desperately want to hear as Something New, leaving them all aflutter.

But this is the same line the Catholic church has taken for decades, if not longer.

My take on it is basically, 'The Pope is still Catholic. Bears still shit in the woods. Film at eleven.' I'm baffled by those who seem to expect this pope to, in effect, not be Catholic.

Sunflower
I'm the AntiFa genderqueer commie eclectic wiccan Mod your alt-right bros warned you about.
I do so have a life; I just live part of it online!
“Selfishness is not living as one wishes to live, it is asking others to live as one wishes to live.” - Oscar Wilde
"Nobody's good at anything until they practice." - Brina (Yewberry)
My much-neglected blog "If You Ain't Makin' Waves, You Ain't Kickin' Hard Enough"

Castus

  • Sr. Master Member
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jul 2011
  • Location: Virginia
  • Posts: 824
  • Country: us
  • Total likes: 77
    • View Profile
  • Religion: Catechumen of an Anglo-Catholic mood, in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
Re: Pope Tells Gay Man "God Made You This Way"
« Reply #3 on: May 24, 2018, 09:21:06 pm »
My take on it is basically, 'The Pope is still Catholic. Bears still shit in the woods. Film at eleven.' I'm baffled by those who seem to expect this pope to, in effect, not be Catholic.

Sunflower

Well, Pope Francis really just haven't gotten around to that part of the Church's understanding of sexuality. Give him time, it takes work to eradicate the Catholic understanding of marriage. Once he's got Amoris Laetitia implemented he can turn his attention to permitting homosexuality.
“Castus, meanwhile, goes straight for the bad theology like one of those creepy fish that swims up streams of pee.” — Darkhawk

EclecticWheel

  • Staff
  • *
  • Join Date: Jul 2013
  • Location: Texas
  • Posts: 761
  • Country: us
  • Total likes: 192
    • View Profile
  • Religion: Christo-Eclectic
  • Preferred Pronouns: he/him/his
Re: Pope Tells Gay Man "God Made You This Way"
« Reply #4 on: May 25, 2018, 12:24:59 pm »
Well, Pope Francis really just haven't gotten around to that part of the Church's understanding of sexuality. Give him time, it takes work to eradicate the Catholic understanding of marriage. Once he's got Amoris Laetitia implemented he can turn his attention to permitting homosexuality.

Yes, I don't have access to it right now but I have a friend who has written a piece on this that argues that Amoris Laetitia paves the way for a change in church teaching on homosexuality although that is probably not its intention.

If this pope does have a motive to change church teaching he is doing much of it by acting in what he would probably think of as a pastoral role.  That way no one can accuse him of challenging church teaching.  He's just being "pastoral."  There are limits on what he can do as a pope.

But I don't think his behavior and words on these things are insignificant and will have no impact on how the church does theology on down the line, especially Amoris Laetitia.
My personal moral code:

Love wisely, and do what thou wilt.

Goddess_Ashtara

  • Journeyman
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jan 2017
  • Location: E-EDINLIL
  • Posts: 114
  • Country: 00
  • Total likes: 25
  • DINGIR NIN EDINLIL AK IMEN
    • View Profile
  • Religion: Nexion 3127
Re: Pope Tells Gay Man "God Made You This Way"
« Reply #5 on: May 26, 2018, 07:18:06 pm »
Yawn.

‘God Made You This Way,’ Pope Is Said to Have Told Gay Man
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/21/world/europe/pope-francis-gays-god-made-you-this-way-.html

Once again, the words of this Catholic pontiff are taken by those who hear what they desperately want to hear as Something New, leaving them all aflutter.

But this is the same line the Catholic church has taken for decades, if not longer. They acknowledge that a homosexual orientation occurs in nature--"God made you this way"--but the follow-up is unchanged--"and the Lord gave you this challenge, to which the only blessed, righteous response is to deny those natural-for-you-but-intrinsically-disordered inclinations; to deny yourself romantic love and any sex, forever; and instead consign yourself to a lifetime of celibacy."

[i.e., become a Catholic priest, because where do you think we're supposed to get our new recruits from, and this whole modern living-a-happy-and-fulfilled-openly-gay-life thing is really fucking with our talent pool, as our ranks dwindle. OK, so that last part isn't part of official Catholic dogma, but do the math.]

Meanwhile, the political course of this church is unaltered, as it consistently inserts itself into governments and lawmaking wherever possible to try to make sure we gay folks never have the same rights as it embraces for its flock--even though god made us this way.

But that's OK, because they love us.

Give him points for getting certain gullible liberals to ovulate over yet another kinder, gentler pronouncement.

Meanwhile, in other news:

Australian Archbishop Philip Wilson Guilty of Sexual Abuse Cover-Up
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/21/world/australia/philip-wilson-priest-abuse-guilty.html

I do not understand why some individuals and groups expect the Catholic religion to alter its Weltanschauung, culture and practices to be more inclusive of those who do not meet its standards.  I mean with religion one would expect this to happen the other way around, with people who are truly interested in it displaying a willingness to make changes to their own Weltanschauung, culture and practices to resonate with that religion’s teachings.

These people could simply just not accept Catholicism, and find or develop another religion that better suits them, or forsake religion entirely.  Yes, Catholicism is widespread and pulls many strings, because it has grown and developed, conquered and survived.  Like many religions, despite any apparent flaws it has proven its complete and utter badassery throughout its long history and perserverence, and while it has had to adapt in some ways to move forward, too much evolution and a thing becomes something else entirely.   

My advice for homosexuals is, if Catholicism is not for you, it is not for you.  Many other things may be.  Do not expect it to evolve to suit you, especially if you are not willing to evolve to suit it.  If it is religion you seek than there are many alternatives.  If it is politics you are concerned about than there are more effective approaches than attempting to change a religion composed of billions of humans past and present.



𒊩𒆪  𒂔𒇸𒀝  𒄿𒈨
NIN EDINLIL AK IMEN
𒊩𒆪  𒂔𒇸𒀝  𒄿𒈨

Altair

  • Adept Member
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jul 2011
  • Location: New York, New York
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 3072
  • Country: us
  • Total likes: 445
  • Fly high and make the world follow
    • View Profile
    • Songs of the Metamythos
  • Religion: tree-hugging pagan
  • Preferred Pronouns: he/him/his
Re: Pope Tells Gay Man "God Made You This Way"
« Reply #6 on: May 26, 2018, 11:56:17 pm »
I do not understand why some individuals and groups expect the Catholic religion to alter its Weltanschauung, culture and practices to be more inclusive of those who do not meet its standards.  I mean with religion one would expect this to happen the other way around, with people who are truly interested in it displaying a willingness to make changes to their own Weltanschauung, culture and practices to resonate with that religion’s teachings.

These people could simply just not accept Catholicism, and find or develop another religion that better suits them, or forsake religion entirely.  Yes, Catholicism is widespread and pulls many strings, because it has grown and developed, conquered and survived.  Like many religions, despite any apparent flaws it has proven its complete and utter badassery throughout its long history and perserverence, and while it has had to adapt in some ways to move forward, too much evolution and a thing becomes something else entirely.   

My advice for homosexuals is, if Catholicism is not for you, it is not for you.  Many other things may be.  Do not expect it to evolve to suit you, especially if you are not willing to evolve to suit it.  If it is religion you seek than there are many alternatives.  If it is politics you are concerned about than there are more effective approaches than attempting to change a religion composed of billions of humans past and present.

For once we largely agree.
The first song sets the wheel in motion / The second is a song of love / The third song tells of Her devotion / The fourth cries joy from the sky above
The fifth song binds our fate to silence / and bids us live each moment well / The sixth unleashes rage and violence / The seventh song has truth to tell
The last song echoes through the ages / to ask its question all night long / And close the circle on these pages / These, the metamythos songs

MadZealot

  • Adept Member
  • ********
  • Join Date: Nov 2011
  • Location: So Cal
  • Posts: 2483
  • Country: us
  • Total likes: 191
  • Eye yam tu papi.
    • View Profile
  • Religion: Bitter Clinger. Sith Lord.
Re: Pope Tells Gay Man "God Made You This Way"
« Reply #7 on: May 27, 2018, 12:12:34 am »
For once we largely agree.

Yep. But if Frankie stuck to expected Catholic boilerplate, nobody would pay attention.
Oh, is it time again to say "Fuck Trump gently in the ear with a swarm of pissed-off hornets?"?

Okay. Fuck Trump gently in the ear with a swarm of pissed-off hornets.

SunflowerP

  • Host
  • *
  • Join Date: Jun 2011
  • Location: Calgary AB
  • Posts: 8885
  • Country: ca
  • Total likes: 374
  • Don't teach your grandmother to suck eggs!
    • View Profile
    • If You Ain't Makin' Waves, You Ain't Kickin' Hard Enough
  • Religion: Eclectic religious Witchcraft
  • Preferred Pronouns: sie/hir/hirs/hirself
Re: Pope Tells Gay Man "God Made You This Way"
« Reply #8 on: May 27, 2018, 05:48:57 pm »
I do not understand why some individuals and groups expect the Catholic religion to alter its Weltanschauung, culture and practices to be more inclusive of those who do not meet its standards.  I mean with religion one would expect this to happen the other way around, with people who are truly interested in it displaying a willingness to make changes to their own Weltanschauung, culture and practices to resonate with that religion’s teachings

A Reminder:
Hi, Goddess_Ashtara,

Just a quick note: our rules state, 'DO NOT use uncommon specialist jargon (technical, political, social justice, etc.) without explaining it in in plain language or providing a link to a place on the web where it is neutrally defined. Be especially careful of jargon, even commonly known jargon, that has a very different meaning in common usage (e.g. The word "theory" is commonly known science jargon. However, in science a "theory" is "a well established and proven idea" where a "theory" in common usage is more like "my best guess").'

In the future, please use the more common word 'worldview' whenever it adequately conveys the your meaning (f'ex, I would posit that the second instance in your post, referring to the individual being able to strive to change it, is indeed more exactly 'worldview' and not 'Weltanschauung' at all) It is better to only use 'Weltanschauung' if and when you truly feel that the additional nuances and connotations carried by that technical term of art are necessary to what you're saying,  and include either a brief explanation or a link to an explanation, as per that rule, when you do.

This isn't a formal warning, just a reminder, though future instances may receive formal warnings. No reply is necessary, but if you have questions or need clarification, please feel free to contact a member of staff privately.

Thanks!
Sunflower
TC Forum Staff
I'm the AntiFa genderqueer commie eclectic wiccan Mod your alt-right bros warned you about.
I do so have a life; I just live part of it online!
“Selfishness is not living as one wishes to live, it is asking others to live as one wishes to live.” - Oscar Wilde
"Nobody's good at anything until they practice." - Brina (Yewberry)
My much-neglected blog "If You Ain't Makin' Waves, You Ain't Kickin' Hard Enough"

Demophon

  • Master Member
  • ******
  • Join Date: May 2015
  • Banned!
  • Posts: 258
  • Country: ca
  • Total likes: 15
    • View Profile
Re: Pope Tells Gay Man "God Made You This Way"
« Reply #9 on: May 27, 2018, 11:18:59 pm »
Once again, the words of this Catholic pontiff are taken by those who hear what they desperately want to hear as Something New, leaving them all aflutter.

I think Pope Francis is more open-minded than his predecessors, and being a Jesuit helps, as they tend to be a bit more engaged with the reality on the ground than abstract theological teaching, but yeah, I don't expect anything radical from him.

Apparently he's telling bishops not to permit men with homosexual tendencies into seminaries now: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-pope-homosexuality/pope-tells-bishops-not-to-accept-gay-seminarians-report-idUSKCN1IP36J. The Roman Church isn't going to come to terms with the real world any time soon.

Tags:
 

Related Topics

  Subject / Started by Replies Last post
0 Replies
2414 Views
Last post June 02, 2012, 02:18:01 pm
by RandallS
15 Replies
6151 Views
Last post October 15, 2013, 05:29:46 am
by Medulla
45 Replies
8551 Views
Last post March 06, 2015, 07:03:29 pm
by Marjie
0 Replies
1895 Views
Last post October 04, 2015, 06:42:23 pm
by Newsposter
7 Replies
1994 Views
Last post November 30, 2016, 04:23:24 pm
by ehbowen

* Who's Online

  • Dot Guests: 41
  • Dot Hidden: 0
  • Dot Users: 2
  • Dot Users Online:

* Please Donate!

The Cauldron's server is expensive and requires monthly payments. Please become a Bronze, Silver or Gold Donor if you can. Donations are needed every month. Without member support, we can't afford the server.

* Shop & Support TC

The links below are affiliate links. When you click on one of these links you will go to the listed shopping site with The Cauldron's affiliate code. Any purchases you make during your visit will earn TC a tiny percentage of your purchase price at no extra cost to you.

* In Memoriam

Chavi (2006)
Elspeth (2010)
Marilyn (2013)

* Cauldron Staff

Host:
Sunflower

Message Board Staff
Board Coordinator:
Darkhawk

Assistant Board Coordinator:
Aster Breo

Senior Staff:
Aisling, Jenett, Sefiru

Staff:
Allaya, Chatelaine, EclecticWheel, HarpingHawke, Kylara, PerditaPickle, rocquelaire

Discord Chat Staff
Chat Coordinator:
Morag

Cauldron Council:
Bob, Catja, Emma-Eldritch, Fausta, Jubes, Kelly, LyricFox, Phouka, Sperran, Star, Steve, Tana

Site Administrator:
Randall

SimplePortal 2.3.6 © 2008-2014, SimplePortal