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Author Topic: Pope Met with Kim Davis  (Read 3720 times)

Altair

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Pope Met with Kim Davis
« on: September 30, 2015, 03:56:00 pm »
"Pope Francis met privately in Washington last week with Kim Davis, the county clerk in Kentucky who defied a court order to issue marriage licenses to same-sex couples..."

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/30/us/county-clerk-kim-davis-who-denied-gay-couples-visited-pope.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&module=second-column-region

Way too many folks I know are shocked by this. Are they so desperate for approval that they bought that kinder, gentler song and dance, without recognizing the underlying anti-gay tune was unchanged? Pay more attention, people!
The first song sets the wheel in motion / The second is a song of love / The third song tells of Her devotion / The fourth cries joy from the sky above
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Redfaery

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Re: Pope Met with Kim Davis
« Reply #1 on: September 30, 2015, 04:08:33 pm »
Quote from: Altair;180564
"Pope Francis met privately in Washington last week with Kim Davis, the county clerk in Kentucky who defied a court order to issue marriage licenses to same-sex couples..."

Way too many folks I know are shocked by this. Are they so desperate for approval that they bought that kinder, gentler song and dance, without recognizing the underlying anti-gay tune was unchanged? Pay more attention, people!

 
I wasn't shocked, not even really very surprised. Just kinda disappointed. I mean, it wasn't meeting with Kim Davis per se, it was the fact that it was all so hush-hush and secret.

Full Disclosure: I was raised Catholic and identify as grey-asexual/demisexual. I know full well the Church hasn't changed its tune on LGBTQA equality.
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Re: Pope Met with Kim Davis
« Reply #2 on: September 30, 2015, 04:09:14 pm »
Quote from: Altair;180564
"Pope Francis met privately in Washington last week with Kim Davis, the county clerk in Kentucky who defied a court order to issue marriage licenses to same-sex couples..."

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/30/us/county-clerk-kim-davis-who-denied-gay-couples-visited-pope.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&module=second-column-region

Way too many folks I know are shocked by this. Are they so desperate for approval that they bought that kinder, gentler song and dance, without recognizing the underlying anti-gay tune was unchanged? Pay more attention, people!


I admit I was genuinely surprised; this isn't the type of thing I expected from Pope Francis. That having been said, it's refreshing to see a glimmer of actual Catholicism from this pontificate; a faded reminded that the Pope may actually adhere to the magisterium which he is supposed to defend.
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Tom

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Re: Pope Met with Kim Davis
« Reply #3 on: September 30, 2015, 05:51:11 pm »
Quote from: Castus;180566
I admit I was genuinely surprised; this isn't the type of thing I expected from Pope Francis. That having been said, it's refreshing to see a glimmer of actual Catholicism from this pontificate; a faded reminded that the Pope may actually adhere to the magisterium which he is supposed to defend.
Luckily for us, the days of the Catholic church having authority over secular government are long gone, so people are free from having Kim Davis' religious beliefs being enforced upon them. After all, the citizens of that county have the right to religious freedom just as much as she does and they aren't representing the government.

As for me, I am unsurprised by Francis. He seems to be rather picky with which social justice issues he is willing support and he is certainly not on the side of women and LGBTQ people.

RandallS

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Re: Pope Met with Kim Davis
« Reply #4 on: September 30, 2015, 06:33:49 pm »
Quote from: Redfaery;180565
I wasn't shocked, not even really very surprised. Just kinda disappointed. I mean, it wasn't meeting with Kim Davis per se, it was the fact that it was all so hush-hush and secret.

This. And I'd really like to ask him a few questions about his later statement that government workers should not have to do things that violate their beliefs.  I wonder if he would agree if the the government worker was some Protestant fundamentalist who believes that all Catholics are not Christian and therefore refuses to perform his job if a Catholic is involved.
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Juniperberry

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Re: Pope Met with Kim Davis
« Reply #5 on: September 30, 2015, 09:09:26 pm »
Quote from: RandallS;180569
This. And I'd really like to ask him a few questions about his later statement that government workers should not have to do things that violate their beliefs.  I wonder if he would agree if the the government worker was some Protestant fundamentalist who believes that all Catholics are not Christian and therefore refuses to perform his job if a Catholic is involved.

The thing is, the county clerk is an elected position. It's not as if a conservative Christian was foisted on people against their will*. This is why voting is important, why we should know what the candidates beliefs are, and why we should always continue to educate people on tolerance and equality.

*That she chose to behave illegally and intolerantly is a different matter than her right to beliefs, of course.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2015, 09:10:24 pm by Juniperberry »
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MadZealot

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Re: Pope Met with Kim Davis
« Reply #6 on: October 01, 2015, 02:57:17 am »
Quote from: Altair;180564

Way too many folks I know are shocked by this.


I don't get why anyone was surprised.  The Pope is still Catholic and Church tenets are unchanged.  Seems like people wanted him to be some kind of progressive icon.  Surpriiiise!  
(Or not.)

(meanwhile, the news of Junipero Serra's canonization has gone largely unremarked)
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Altair

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Re: Pope Met with Kim Davis
« Reply #7 on: October 02, 2015, 10:20:28 am »
Quote from: Altair;180564
"Pope Francis met privately in Washington last week with Kim Davis, the county clerk in Kentucky who defied a court order to issue marriage licenses to same-sex couples..."

 
And now, the Vatican's desperate scramble to restore the mindless adulation from people who should know better:

BREAKING: Vatican Distances Pope Francis From Kim Davis, “Meeting Should Not Be Seen As Support

http://www.joemygod.com/2015/10/02/breaking-vatican-distances-pope-francis-from-kim-davis-meeting-should-not-be-seen-as-support/

(I've linked this to my fave blog, since it offers excerpts from several different news outlets' analyses.)

I'm not buying the spin, nor the explanations from several Francis apologists. The meeting was entirely consistent with everything the Catholic church has done against LGBT equality, including since this pope took office. The only thing it's not consistent with is the Francis P.R. machine.
The first song sets the wheel in motion / The second is a song of love / The third song tells of Her devotion / The fourth cries joy from the sky above
The fifth song binds our fate to silence / and bids us live each moment well / The sixth unleashes rage and violence / The seventh song has truth to tell
The last song echoes through the ages / to ask its question all night long / And close the circle on these pages / These, the metamythos songs

RandallS

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Re: Pope Met with Kim Davis
« Reply #8 on: October 02, 2015, 10:52:40 am »
Quote from: Altair;180645
I'm not buying the spin, nor the explanations from several Francis apologists. The meeting was entirely consistent with everything the Catholic church has done against LGBT equality, including since this pope took office. The only thing it's not consistent with is the Francis P.R. machine.

Given the Kim Davis media machine, I might believe that her meeting with the pope wasn't all that much of an actual audience as she claimed. However, it is hard to buy into that given the pope's statement the next day. Personally, I suspect media spin shenanigans from both Davis' media machine and the Pope's media machine as both try to spin this the best way possible for their person -- and there my be no truth to be found amongst the spin  -- except what we already know: both want to find some way to stop gays from marrying. (Translation: Yes, I'm a real cynic today.)
Randall
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Juniperberry

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Re: Pope Met with Kim Davis
« Reply #9 on: October 02, 2015, 11:13:53 am »
Quote from: Altair;180645
And now, the Vatican's desperate scramble to restore the mindless adulation from people who should know better:

BREAKING: Vatican Distances Pope Francis From Kim Davis, “Meeting Should Not Be Seen As Support

http://www.joemygod.com/2015/10/02/breaking-vatican-distances-pope-francis-from-kim-davis-meeting-should-not-be-seen-as-support/

(I've linked this to my fave blog, since it offers excerpts from several different news outlets' analyses.)

I'm not buying the spin, nor the explanations from several Francis apologists. The meeting was entirely consistent with everything the Catholic church has done against LGBT equality, including since this pope took office. The only thing it's not consistent with is the Francis P.R. machine.

 

I'm not Catholic and I haven't followed this too closely, but on another board they mentioned that Pope Francis also visited inmates during his trip. His visit at the prison obviously wasn't a show of support for the crimes committed, but a visit of spiritual support and counseling for people at the worst hour of their own making:

“This time in your life can only have one purpose: to give you a hand in getting back on the right road, to give you a hand to help you rejoin society,” the pope said in the gymnasium of the Curran-Fromhold Correctional Facility. “All of us are part of that effort, all of us are invited to encourage, help and enable your rehabilitation.” WSJ

There's a saying, apparently: God, like the Nature of the Sun, shines on saints and sinners alike.

I'm actually getting really fucking tired of the US media. I wish they would give balanced, objective reports instead of deliberately feeding us controversy and upset.
The pace of progress in artificial intelligence (I’m not referring to narrow AI) is incredibly fast. [...] The risk of something seriously dangerous happening is in the five year timeframe. 10 years at most.--Elon Musk

I am in the camp that is concerned about super intelligence," [Bill] Gates wrote. "First the machines will do a lot of jobs for us and not be super intelligent. That should be positive if we manage it well. A few decades after that though the intelligence is strong enough to be a concern. I agree with Elon Musk and some others on this and don\'t understand why some people are not concerned."

Altair

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Re: Pope Met with Kim Davis
« Reply #10 on: October 02, 2015, 02:40:43 pm »
Quote from: Altair;180645

I'm not buying the spin, nor the explanations from several Francis apologists. The meeting was entirely consistent with everything the Catholic church has done against LGBT equality, including since this pope took office. The only thing it's not consistent with is the Francis P.R. machine.


Hmm...this gave even me, who has been I-told-you-soing all over the web over the meeting with Kim Davis, pause. It's still not a change in policy, but it is consistent with the papal change in tone. Again via my fave blog:

BREAKING: Only Real Private Audience Held By Pope During US Visit Was With GAY COUPLE

http://www.joemygod.com/2015/10/02/breaking-only-real-private-audience-held-by-pope-during-us-visit-was-with-gay-couple/
 
Between the denial of support for Kim Davis, and now this, all the conservatives who were doing cartwheels over him meeting KD are going to weep.
The first song sets the wheel in motion / The second is a song of love / The third song tells of Her devotion / The fourth cries joy from the sky above
The fifth song binds our fate to silence / and bids us live each moment well / The sixth unleashes rage and violence / The seventh song has truth to tell
The last song echoes through the ages / to ask its question all night long / And close the circle on these pages / These, the metamythos songs

RandallS

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Re: Pope Met with Kim Davis
« Reply #11 on: October 02, 2015, 05:12:09 pm »
Quote from: Altair;180654
BREAKING: Only Real Private Audience Held By Pope During US Visit Was With GAY COUPLE

http://www.joemygod.com/2015/10/02/breaking-only-real-private-audience-held-by-pope-during-us-visit-was-with-gay-couple/

This also shows that this Pope is one of the few (public) Christians out there who seems able to actually  "love the sinner while hating the sin". A who lot of anti-gay public Christians claim to do this, but very few seem actually able to.
Randall
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