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Author Topic: Petition  (Read 1686 times)

ZombyFrogg

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Petition
« on: September 29, 2011, 11:38:51 pm »
https://wwws.whitehouse.gov/petitions#!/petition/bar-courts-and-lawmakers-creating-second-class-religion-status-minority-religions-wicca-neopaganism/SKGx6wJV
 
Found this link on another forum. It is a petiton to keep minoriy religions like Wicca/Paganism from becoming "second class" religions as a result we wouldn't have the same rights as other religions and could lose covens, churches and even jobs due to relgious discrimination. Please no matter what your religion if you believe freedom of religion means ANY religion, please sign this.

Miss

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Re: Petition
« Reply #1 on: September 30, 2011, 12:43:36 am »
Quote from: ZombyFrogg;23149
https://wwws.whitehouse.gov/petitions#!/petition/bar-courts-and-lawmakers-creating-second-class-religion-status-minority-religions-wicca-neopaganism/SKGx6wJV
 
Found this link on another forum. It is a petiton to keep minoriy religions like Wicca/Paganism from becoming "second class" religions as a result we wouldn't have the same rights as other religions and could lose covens, churches and even jobs due to relgious discrimination. Please no matter what your religion if you believe freedom of religion means ANY religion, please sign this.

 
Writing California officials would also be helpful would it not? I'm rubbish at searching things down on the net, could someone provide mailing addresses to voice concerns about this as well?

Jenett

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Re: Petition
« Reply #2 on: September 30, 2011, 06:59:29 am »
Quote from: Miss;23156
Writing California officials would also be helpful would it not? I'm rubbish at searching things down on the net, could someone provide mailing addresses to voice concerns about this as well?

 
You can find out more about the California case at http://www.patheos.com/blogs/wildhunt/tag/patrick-mccollum, for anyone looking, and I believe there's info in there somewhere about when feedback/commentary is helpful.

The thing is, though: the US government does not, as a general rule, recognise whether or not a religion is valid, or meaningful, or even primary or secondary. The IRS recognises whether a given group has met the criteria for getting tax-exempt status as a religious group (which is not the same thing: their questions are about what the group does, not what they believe, or why they believe it.)

Religious practice in *prisons* is more complicated, because there's a balance of safety issues, staffing issues (no single prison can have every possible kind of chaplain on staff, and at the same time, volunteers have greater restrictions for various reasons, starting with 'not there as often' and going onto safety and other related issues), and so on. There have certainly been prejudicial choices in some prisons - but what happens there does not automatically translate to the rest of society.

And religious discrimination is protected in employment law (I believe housing and related laws are a lot more complicated, because they're often decided on a much smaller scale) - http://www.eeoc.gov/laws/types/religion.cfm has the employment info.
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sailor

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Re: Petition
« Reply #3 on: September 30, 2011, 03:51:56 pm »
Quote from: ZombyFrogg;23149
https://wwws.whitehouse.gov/petitions#!/petition/bar-courts-and-lawmakers-creating-second-class-religion-status-minority-religions-wicca-neopaganism/SKGx6wJV
 
Found this link on another forum. It is a petiton to keep minoriy religions like Wicca/Paganism from becoming "second class" religions as a result we wouldn't have the same rights as other religions and could lose covens, churches and even jobs due to relgious discrimination. Please no matter what your religion if you believe freedom of religion means ANY religion, please sign this.

 
You may want to seriously read the cases before bothering.

McCollum and the prisoners didn't follow the process properly, thus McCollum is an outsider to the case.

Asch

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Re: Petition
« Reply #4 on: September 30, 2011, 04:51:04 pm »
Quote from: sailor;23244
You may want to seriously read the cases before bothering.

McCollum and the prisoners didn't follow the process properly, thus McCollum is an outsider to the case.

 
1. The constitution already provides the protection the petition seeks, however, individual law suits etc are necessary to ensure proper enforcement of our rights until society at large recognizes us and our religions as 'legitimate'.

2. McCollum's case was dismissed due to a lack of standing. Standing is required to bring suit, in this case since McCollum was not one of the prisoners in question but rather a concerned outside party with tertiary involvement he lacked the standing to bring suit.

sailor

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Re: Petition
« Reply #5 on: September 30, 2011, 07:29:03 pm »
Quote from: Asch;23258

2. McCollum's case was dismissed due to a lack of standing. Standing is required to bring suit, in this case since McCollum was not one of the prisoners in question but rather a concerned outside party with tertiary involvement he lacked the standing to bring suit.

 
Standing seems to be one of the toughest things to explain to people not fairly familiar with US legal system.

For the OP:
In McCollum case, the prisoners have to win their case that they do not have sufficient access to pagan clergy.

Caveats the prisoners have to bring it to attention of the prison administration on a fast and regular basis. Before Samhain 2011, say 8 weeks, they'd have to request pagan clergy for Samhain 2011. So shortly after they are denied access to a pagan clergy person for Samhain 2011 they have to lodge an official complaint, say within 3 or 4 weeks after Samhain.  They can't request clergy for summer solstice 2012, it's too early. They can't complain in 2011 about not having clergy in 2008 for Imbolc, it's been to long.  

They have to do the same thing for each holiday as it comes up.  If the prison administration says they need 12 weeks notification in response to the Samhain complaint, they have to give 12 weeks notice for the next holiday.

After the prison has failed to resolve the problem repeatedly, and the prisoners have done all the things the prison requests to resolve it, Then the prisoners can go to court.

Once the court determines that the prisoners have been denied their right to practice religion and that there are no security issues or similar that prevent it the court can then craft a solution that Might include hiring a part time or full time pagan clergy.

Once the prison adminsitratin has to hire somebody, Then McCollum could apply for the job, in competition with how ever many other pagan clergy would like such a job.

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