collapse

* "Unable to verify referring url. Please go back and try again" Problem Logging In?

If you get an "Unable to verify referring url. Please go back and try again" error when you try to log in, you need to be sure you are accessing the board with a url that starts with "https://ecauldron.com".  If it starts with https://www.ecauldron.com" (or "http://www.ecauldron.com") you will get this error because "www.ecauldron.com" is not technically the same website as "ecauldron.com". Moving to the more secure "https" means it is more picky about such things.

Author Topic: Oklahoma Judge Sentences Teen to Church for 10 Years  (Read 1892 times)

sailor

  • Grand Master Member
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jul 2011
  • Posts: 1505
  • Total likes: 0
    • View Profile
Re: Oklahoma Judge Sentences Teen to Church for 10 Years
« Reply #15 on: November 19, 2012, 05:34:28 pm »
Quote from: Altair;81648
Um, exactly what Sailor said.

(That's got to be a first.)

 
It's rare that we agree on method, but this isn't a first.  It's more common that we agree on the goal.

sailor

  • Grand Master Member
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jul 2011
  • Posts: 1505
  • Total likes: 0
    • View Profile
Re: Oklahoma Judge Sentences Teen to Church for 10 Years
« Reply #16 on: November 19, 2012, 05:40:19 pm »
Quote from: MadZealot;81642
Punishment from whom?  The sentence has already been handed down.

What would happen if the kid simply refused to attend services?  Cited his First Amendment rights?  If the parents can't/won't sue then perhaps the ACLU could get involved.

 
If he appeals the sentence, or rather just that part of it, it's very likely that the entire sentence would be struck down and the case remanded to the judge for a whole new sentence. Even if it goes before a different judge it could be much worse.

As for just blowing off the services, that becomes contempt of court. He'd be jailed unless he appeals the basis. It's an obvious appeal, but the result is likely a whole new sentence which could be prison time, fines, etc.

Other than the sentence being unconstitutional on 1st amendment grounds, it's a light punishment.

Schuyler

  • Sr. Apprentice
  • ****
  • Join Date: Oct 2012
  • Posts: 52
  • Total likes: 1
    • View Profile
Re: Oklahoma Judge Sentences Teen to Church for 10 Years
« Reply #17 on: November 19, 2012, 05:45:27 pm »
Quote from: RandallS;81472
I think there are real constitutional issues here. Especially as I suspect the court would have issues if he selected say, the Church of Satan.


That was one of the first things to cross my mind, actually.

Quote from: MadZealot;81595
Not only that, but hit the lad with a metric shitload of fines & legal fees.  I've heard that the first DUI in CA can cost up to $10,000.  If true, I'm good with it.  A DUI should hurt.


Yes, that is true. Sad to say, I know about five people who've had a DUI here. All were hit with massive fines, had their license revoked, and a one had to do community service and another had to attend AA meetings. At least for them, it was the fines that made the most impact on them.

However, there was also no mention of the kid's license being revoked, which is also very troubling. Such a light sentence sends quite the message-- God will always forgive you.
 
...I'm also going to go ahead and be taboo by saying I doubt that a sentence like that would have passed if the teen had been a minority.

sailor

  • Grand Master Member
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jul 2011
  • Posts: 1505
  • Total likes: 0
    • View Profile
Re: Oklahoma Judge Sentences Teen to Church for 10 Years
« Reply #18 on: November 19, 2012, 05:49:33 pm »
Quote from: Cedar;81656

 
...I'm also going to go ahead and be taboo by saying I doubt that a sentence like that would have passed if the teen had been a minority.

 
I'm going to disagree.  A minority with that kids academic record would likely get something similar, or even lighter.

Skyth

  • Master Member
  • ******
  • Join Date: Jul 2011
  • Posts: 391
  • Total likes: 2
    • View Profile
Re: Oklahoma Judge Sentences Teen to Church for 10 Years
« Reply #19 on: November 19, 2012, 06:12:07 pm »
Quote from: sailor;81625
I guess the residents of the state could ask the legislature to impeach the judge. They can't change the sentence though.

 
Couldn't he recieve a pardon?  That would effectively change the sentence.  

It's pretty sad that a judge is allowed to constantly give people the choice between jail and church...

MadZealot

  • Adept Member
  • ********
  • Join Date: Nov 2011
  • Location: So Cal
  • Posts: 2465
  • Country: us
  • Total likes: 172
  • Eye yam tu papi.
    • View Profile
  • Religion: Bitter Clinger. Sith Lord.
Re: Oklahoma Judge Sentences Teen to Church for 10 Years
« Reply #20 on: November 19, 2012, 06:27:04 pm »
Quote from: sailor;81655
If he appeals the sentence, or rather just that part of it, it's very likely that the entire sentence would be struck down and the case remanded to the judge for a whole new sentence. Even if it goes before a different judge it could be much worse.

As for just blowing off the services, that becomes contempt of court. He'd be jailed unless he appeals the basis. It's an obvious appeal, but the result is likely a whole new sentence which could be prison time, fines, etc.

Other than the sentence being unconstitutional on 1st amendment grounds, it's a light punishment.


And if remanded to the same judge, a re-sentencing could easily become 'punishment' for the teen's effrontery.

Agreed on the punishment being light.  Go to church or go to jail?  Hmmm....
You could argue that the kid should just suck it up and 'do his time', since mandated church services are much less of an infringement on his liberty than being incarcerated and removed from society.  Apart from Sunday mornings, he can live a normal life.  

That being said, the sentence endorses the use of churches etc as sites for legal punishment/rehabilitation and establishes precedence.  That's problematic on many levels, not the least of which is the judge's apparent belief that mandated church attendance alone makes one into a good and lawful person.
Spider Man 3 never happened. And Epstein didn't kill himself.

sailor

  • Grand Master Member
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jul 2011
  • Posts: 1505
  • Total likes: 0
    • View Profile
Re: Oklahoma Judge Sentences Teen to Church for 10 Years
« Reply #21 on: November 19, 2012, 07:12:52 pm »
Quote from: Skyth;81664
Couldn't he recieve a pardon?  That would effectively change the sentence.  

It's pretty sad that a judge is allowed to constantly give people the choice between jail and church...

 
Politically unrealistic to think the Governor would pardon somebody who killed a teen while driving after drinking. Especially since the sentence of going to church is very lenient.

Given a choice between 10 years behind bars and having to attend a church of your choice for 10 years once a week which would you choose?

Skyth

  • Master Member
  • ******
  • Join Date: Jul 2011
  • Posts: 391
  • Total likes: 2
    • View Profile
Re: Oklahoma Judge Sentences Teen to Church for 10 Years
« Reply #22 on: November 19, 2012, 08:07:29 pm »
Quote from: sailor;81678
Politically unrealistic to think the Governor would pardon somebody who killed a teen while driving after drinking. Especially since the sentence of going to church is very lenient.


Didn't say that it was probable, just that it was possible.  The president could do it too.

Quote
Given a choice between 10 years behind bars and having to attend a church of your choice for 10 years once a week which would you choose?


Irrelevant.  Government should never give you the choice of 'go to church or go to jail'.

RandallS

  • Site Admin
  • *
  • Join Date: Jun 2011
  • Location: NE Ohio
  • Posts: 10221
  • Country: us
  • Total likes: 272
    • View Profile
  • Religion: Hellenic Pagan
Re: Oklahoma Judge Sentences Teen to Church for 10 Years
« Reply #23 on: November 19, 2012, 10:44:30 pm »
Quote from: sailor;81660
I'm going to disagree.  A minority with that kids academic record would likely get something similar, or even lighter.

In Oklahoma? Right. I find that fairly unlikely in many -- if not most -- places in the US, but extremely unlikely places like Oklahoma.
Randall
RetroRoleplaying [Blog]: Microlite74/75/78/81, BX Advanced, and Other Old School Tabletop RPGs
Microlite20: Lots of Rules Lite Tabletop RPGs -- Many Free

Tags:
 

Related Topics

  Subject / Started by Replies Last post
8 Replies
994 Views
Last post May 21, 2013, 07:54:51 pm
by Kimberly
1 Replies
1039 Views
Last post May 22, 2013, 11:46:43 am
by Melamphoros
25 Replies
2581 Views
Last post January 10, 2014, 08:53:37 pm
by RandallS
5 Replies
1590 Views
Last post January 29, 2015, 03:09:19 pm
by Jainarayan
Hello from Oklahoma

Started by Dragonspell Introductions

2 Replies
427 Views
Last post October 10, 2016, 09:45:05 am
by Morag

* Who's Online

  • Dot Guests: 49
  • Dot Hidden: 0
  • Dot Users: 1
  • Dot Users Online:

* Please Donate!

The Cauldron's server is expensive and requires monthly payments. Please become a Bronze, Silver or Gold Donor if you can. Donations are needed every month. Without member support, we can't afford the server.

* Shop & Support TC

The links below are affiliate links. When you click on one of these links you will go to the listed shopping site with The Cauldron's affiliate code. Any purchases you make during your visit will earn TC a tiny percentage of your purchase price at no extra cost to you.

* In Memoriam

Chavi (2006)
Elspeth (2010)
Marilyn (2013)

* Cauldron Staff

Host:
Sunflower

Message Board Staff
Board Coordinator:
Darkhawk

Assistant Board Coordinator:
Aster Breo

Senior Staff:
Aisling, Jenett, Sefiru

Staff:
Allaya, Chatelaine, EclecticWheel, HarpingHawke, Kylara, PerditaPickle, rocquelaire

Discord Chat Staff
Chat Coordinator:
Morag

Cauldron Council:
Bob, Catja, Emma-Eldritch, Fausta, Jubes, Kelly, LyricFox, Phouka, Sperran, Star, Steve, Tana

Site Administrator:
Randall