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Author Topic: Notre Dame Professor tackles 'myth' of Christian Martyrdom  (Read 2001 times)

FollowerofOdin

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Saw this article and thought it would be interesting to post here. Below is the link. I told my mother about it and she said that this is false, that hundreds of thousands of people were killed for their faith even though there's evidence that this is false. You can't reason with people like this. Glad that people like her aren't as far and wide as we think.

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/notre-dame-professor-tackles-myth-christian-martyrdom-151620492.html

Gilbride

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Re: Notre Dame Professor tackles 'myth' of Christian Martyrdom
« Reply #1 on: May 04, 2013, 12:26:36 pm »
Quote from: FollowerofOdin;107696
Saw this article and thought it would be interesting to post here. http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/notre-dame-professor-tackles-myth-christian-martyrdom-151620492.html


The argument seems kind of weak to me, since it doesn't count Christians who were executed for refusing to engage in civic sacrifices or take oaths that would have violated their religion.

Astani

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Re: Notre Dame Professor tackles 'myth' of Christian Martyrdom
« Reply #2 on: May 04, 2013, 01:14:11 pm »
Quote from: Gilbride;107697
it doesn't count Christians who were executed for refusing to engage in civic sacrifices or take oaths that would have violated their religion.

From the article:
Quote
Moss contends that when Christians were executed, it was often not because of their religious beliefs but because they wouldn't follow Roman rules. Many laws that led to early Christians’ execution were not specifically targeted at them—such as a law requiring all Roman citizens to engage in a public sacrifice to the gods—but their refusal to observe those laws and other mores of Roman society led to their deaths.

So, the argument did count it.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2013, 01:14:47 pm by Astani »

RandallS

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Re: Notre Dame Professor tackles 'myth' of Christian Martyrdom
« Reply #3 on: May 04, 2013, 01:16:46 pm »
Quote from: Gilbride;107697
The argument seems kind of weak to me, since it doesn't count Christians who were executed for refusing to engage in civic sacrifices or take oaths that would have violated their religion.

And trying to claim that such executions were not because of their religion is silly. Yes, they were not exceuted for being Christian, but they would have had to violate their Christian religious beliefs to do things like sacrifice to the Roman Gods.
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Gilbride

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Re: Notre Dame Professor tackles 'myth' of Christian Martyrdom
« Reply #4 on: May 04, 2013, 03:39:38 pm »
Quote from: RandallS;107699
And trying to claim that such executions were not because of their religion is silly. Yes, they were not exceuted for being Christian, but they would have had to violate their Christian religious beliefs to do things like sacrifice to the Roman Gods.

 
Exactly. If you get executed for not doing something your religion forbids you to do, that is religious persecution.

Skyth

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Re: Notre Dame Professor tackles 'myth' of Christian Martyrdom
« Reply #5 on: May 05, 2013, 03:26:47 pm »
Quote from: Gilbride;107702
Exactly. If you get executed for not doing something your religion forbids you to do, that is religious persecution.

 
Here's a question.  If the law requires gays to be treated as normal human beings and offered the same services as other people, but someone's religion requires them to discriminate against gays, are they subject to religious persecution?

Sarah

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Re: Notre Dame Professor tackles 'myth' of Christian Martyrdom
« Reply #6 on: May 05, 2013, 03:45:27 pm »
Quote from: Skyth;107779
Here's a question.  If the law requires gays to be treated as normal human beings and offered the same services as other people, but someone's religion requires them to discriminate against gays, are they subject to religious persecution?

 
I think that one persons religious freedom ends where another persons human rights start.
Knowing when to use a shovel is what being a witch is all about. Nanny Ogg, Witches Abroad

RandallS

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Re: Notre Dame Professor tackles 'myth' of Christian Martyrdom
« Reply #7 on: May 05, 2013, 05:51:04 pm »
Quote from: maybeimawitch;107782
I think that one persons religious freedom ends where another persons human rights start.

Exactly.
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Cabal

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Re: Notre Dame Professor tackles 'myth' of Christian Martyrdom
« Reply #8 on: May 05, 2013, 06:42:02 pm »
Quote from: maybeimawitch;107782
I think that one persons religious freedom ends where another persons human rights start.

 
There's a difference between honoring human rights and forcing someone to worship Gods of another religion!
"In Hell, everybody loves popcorn."

Sarah

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Re: Notre Dame Professor tackles 'myth' of Christian Martyrdom
« Reply #9 on: May 05, 2013, 06:44:07 pm »
Quote from: Cryfder;107800
There's a difference between honoring human rights and forcing someone to worship Gods of another religion!

 
But i was answering a question about the rights of gay people not saying people should be forced to worship a certain god
Knowing when to use a shovel is what being a witch is all about. Nanny Ogg, Witches Abroad

Gilbride

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Re: Notre Dame Professor tackles 'myth' of Christian Martyrdom
« Reply #10 on: May 05, 2013, 10:38:52 pm »
Quote from: Skyth;107779
Here's a question.  If the law requires gays to be treated as normal human beings and offered the same services as other people, but someone's religion requires them to discriminate against gays, are they subject to religious persecution?

 
No, it's not a valid comparison. Refusing to worship the Roman emperor does not violate the autonomy of another person.

FollowerofOdin

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Re: Notre Dame Professor tackles 'myth' of Christian Martyrdom
« Reply #11 on: May 06, 2013, 09:06:15 pm »
Quote from: Gilbride;107813
No, it's not a valid comparison. Refusing to worship the Roman emperor does not violate the autonomy of another person.

 
Interesting, and thanks everyone for your comments and views. I know that she doesn't view that her collage wanting to op out of the requirement to allow women to have birth control counts as religious persecution. Personally I don't understand why it would be any of the churches business if a woman is on birth control, as there was a study that stated that many Catholic women use birth control.

I read an article a couple of months back that this country is finally allowing women to have access to birth control. This woman had a ton of babies and didn't allow her body to recover from each birth. She has medical problems up the wazoo. Felt bad for her and so did my mother.

sailor

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Re: Notre Dame Professor tackles 'myth' of Christian Martyrdom
« Reply #12 on: May 06, 2013, 11:58:37 pm »
Quote from: FollowerofOdin;107905
Interesting, and thanks everyone for your comments and views. I know that she doesn't view that her collage wanting to op out of the requirement to allow women to have birth control counts as religious persecution. Personally I don't understand why it would be any of the churches business if a woman is on birth control, as there was a study that stated that many Catholic women use birth control.

I read an article a couple of months back that this country is finally allowing women to have access to birth control. This woman had a ton of babies and didn't allow her body to recover from each birth. She has medical problems up the wazoo. Felt bad for her and so did my mother.

 
The issue for Norte Dame and such is should the organization that believes birth control is a sin have to pay for it?

Jack

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Re: Notre Dame Professor tackles 'myth' of Christian Martyrdom
« Reply #13 on: May 07, 2013, 12:19:00 am »
Quote from: sailor;107919
The issue for Norte Dame and such is should the organization that believes birth control is a sin have to pay for it?

 
At least some of the drugs used for birth control also are used to treat other conditions, and forcing women to disclose what their medications are treating is an invasion of privacy.

(I would be more inclined to give the school the benefit of the doubt if they also wanted to control access to, say, viagra for male employees who were no longer trying to procreate. Somehow, though, these sorts of concerns only ever come down on women.)
Hail Mara, Lady of Good Things!
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sailor

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Re: Notre Dame Professor tackles 'myth' of Christian Martyrdom
« Reply #14 on: May 07, 2013, 05:40:50 am »
Quote from: Jack;107920
At least some of the drugs used for birth control also are used to treat other conditions, and forcing women to disclose what their medications are treating is an invasion of privacy.

(I would be more inclined to give the school the benefit of the doubt if they also wanted to control access to, say, viagra for male employees who were no longer trying to procreate. Somehow, though, these sorts of concerns only ever come down on women.)

 
Where are you getting this bizarre idea that the school is going to ask women what drugs they are using or for what?

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