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Author Topic: Mormons accused of fraud  (Read 2108 times)

DavidMcCann

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Re: Mormons accused of fraud
« Reply #15 on: February 08, 2014, 06:37:30 pm »
Quote from: Altair;139222
Who is this district judge? He should have summarily dismissed this out of hand.

She, actually. I don't think the case has merit, but I just liked the judge's reaction. I forgot that most people here are USians, from a country where Mormonism is a widely accepted religion. In Europe, it's generally considered an unpleasant cult.
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RandallS

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Re: Mormons accused of fraud
« Reply #16 on: February 08, 2014, 06:41:57 pm »
Quote from: Altair;139222
Who is this district judge? He should have summarily dismissed this out of hand.

I think this is a judge in the UK.
Randall
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RandallS

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Re: Mormons accused of fraud
« Reply #17 on: February 08, 2014, 06:51:39 pm »
Quote from: DavidMcCann;139236
I forgot that most people here are USians, from a country where Mormonism is a widely accepted religion. In Europe, it's generally considered an unpleasant cult.

Many people here in the US feel the same way (although not as unpleasant as Scientology), however, that does not matter in the US. They both act like religions so they ARE religions -- the US government lacks the authority to decide which groups are "real" religions and which are not as doing so would be a form of religious establishment -- which is forbidden to the federal government under the First Amendment (which applies to state governments due to the Fourteenth Amendment). If I decided to start a religion worshiping the aliens based on the far side of the moon, so long as it acted like a religion, it would have to be treated as such by the US government. Even while everyone pointed and laughed.
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Valentine

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Re: Mormons accused of fraud
« Reply #18 on: February 08, 2014, 11:18:07 pm »
Quote from: DavidMcCann;139236
She, actually. I don't think the case has merit, but I just liked the judge's reaction. I forgot that most people here are USians, from a country where Mormonism is a widely accepted religion. In Europe, it's generally considered an unpleasant cult.

 
If being considered legitimate and acceptable by the general population was a prerequisite for legal protections as a religion, a lot of us here would be out of luck as "unpleasant cults."  There's no good place to draw the line.

Besides, widely accepted or no, Mormonism began here in the States, and the bulk of its followers are here, no matter how extensive their missionary work particularly in Oceania and Asia.  They have a bloc to work with, and money to throw around, and more-or-less control the government and workings of one of the United States.  For that matter, they have been directly legislated against and moved on by the government; most of the reason we have such strict legal code around monogamy and one-man-one-woman marriage in the States is, originally, from moral outrage by other Christians around Mormon polygamy.
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Naomi J

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Mormons accused of fraud
« Reply #19 on: February 09, 2014, 06:18:06 am »
Quote from: DavidMcCann;139236
She, actually. I don't think the case has merit, but I just liked the judge's reaction. I forgot that most people here are USians, from a country where Mormonism is a widely accepted religion. In Europe, it's generally considered an unpleasant cult.

That certainly isn't true in my experience.  I have Mormon friends who haven't been treated like cult members.  There are Latter Day Saints churches in most large cities. It's a small religion, and there's ignorance about it here, but I wouldn't say it's  treated as an 'unpleasant cult'.
"We're all stories, in the end. Make it a good one, eh?"
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sailor

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Re: Mormons accused of fraud
« Reply #20 on: February 18, 2014, 10:55:59 pm »
Quote from: Valentine;139184
This is why it would set a really dangerous legal precedent.  Tithing of some kind or another is standard for almost every Christian denomination, and for many Jewish ones--hell, a lot of synagogues sell tickets for High Holy Days services, to stay solvent.  Even a lot of clergy are expected to tithe back some of what they're paid.  And bringing offerings to the temple is standard for Hindus and Buddhists, too.  If all of those organizations are supposed to provide legal proof of their spiritual truths or be sued for accepting offerings and tithing, they're just plain done for.

 
Uh, when you buy a ticket for High Holy Day services you are actually getting something specific. You, as a non-member, get to attend services. Not all that different than the old Unitarian / Congregationalist pew tax.

Agreed thought that it would set a bad precedent and is absurd from an American 1st Amendment perspective.

Valentine

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Re: Mormons accused of fraud
« Reply #21 on: February 19, 2014, 02:45:47 pm »
Quote from: sailor;140355
Uh, when you buy a ticket for High Holy Day services you are actually getting something specific. You, as a non-member, get to attend services. Not all that different than the old Unitarian / Congregationalist pew tax.

Agreed thought that it would set a bad precedent and is absurd from an American 1st Amendment perspective.

 
Yes, and when you tithe to a church, likewise, you get the continued existence of the church--its building and grounds, the pay of its personnel, and the continuation of the services you're attending.  It's not so different, and neither is illegitimate.
"Let be be finale of seem." - Wallace Stevens, "The Emperor of Ice-Cream"
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