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Author Topic: In PA, Billboard vs. Bible; Billboard Wins  (Read 2860 times)

Altair

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In PA, Billboard vs. Bible; Billboard Wins
« on: March 05, 2012, 01:55:11 pm »
Or, more accurately, "Billboard vs. Bible Thumpers" in the Pennsylvania state government, who decided to stick their religion where it doesn't belong. Apparently they passed a proclamation declaring this the "Year of the Bible." This is how the Amercan Atheists Inc. and PA Nonbelievers are responding. I think it's brilliant.

Pennsylvania Atheist Group Buys Billboard To Exploit ‘Year of the Bible’

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2012/03/02/pennsylvania-atheist-group-buys-billboard-to-exploit-year-of-the-bible/

Best quote from the above site:
"How can Christians possibly complain when it’s their own holy book?"

(If the above site isn't loading properly--I'm having trouble with it at the moment--try this one:
http://www.opposingviews.com/i/religion/religion-society/atheist-billboard-goes-harrisburg-pennsylvania )
The first song sets the wheel in motion / The second is a song of love / The third song tells of Her devotion / The fourth cries joy from the sky above
The fifth song binds our fate to silence / and bids us live each moment well / The sixth unleashes rage and violence / The seventh song has truth to tell
The last song echoes through the ages / to ask its question all night long / And close the circle on these pages / These, the metamythos songs

Owl

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Re: In PA, Billboard vs. Bible; Billboard Wins
« Reply #1 on: March 05, 2012, 03:06:13 pm »
Quote from: Altair;44955
Or, more accurately, "Billboard vs. Bible Thumpers" in the Pennsylvania state government, who decided to stick their religion where it doesn't belong. Apparently they passed a proclamation declaring this the "Year of the Bible." This is how the Amercan Atheists Inc. and PA Nonbelievers are responding. I think it's brilliant.

Pennsylvania Atheist Group Buys Billboard To Exploit ‘Year of the Bible’

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2012/03/02/pennsylvania-atheist-group-buys-billboard-to-exploit-year-of-the-bible/

Best quote from the above site:
"How can Christians possibly complain when it’s their own holy book?"

(If the above site isn't loading properly--I'm having trouble with it at the moment--try this one:
http://www.opposingviews.com/i/religion/religion-society/atheist-billboard-goes-harrisburg-pennsylvania )


ROTFL!!!!  I love it!
Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.

victoreia

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Re: In PA, Billboard vs. Bible; Billboard Wins
« Reply #2 on: March 05, 2012, 05:19:43 pm »
Quote from: Altair;44955
Or, more accurately, "Billboard vs. Bible Thumpers" in the Pennsylvania state government, who decided to stick their religion where it doesn't belong. Apparently they passed a proclamation declaring this the "Year of the Bible." This is how the Amercan Atheists Inc. and PA Nonbelievers are responding. I think it's brilliant.

Pennsylvania Atheist Group Buys Billboard To Exploit ‘Year of the Bible’

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2012/03/02/pennsylvania-atheist-group-buys-billboard-to-exploit-year-of-the-bible/

Best quote from the above site:
"How can Christians possibly complain when it’s their own holy book?"

(If the above site isn't loading properly--I'm having trouble with it at the moment--try this one:
http://www.opposingviews.com/i/religion/religion-society/atheist-billboard-goes-harrisburg-pennsylvania )

 
I like it!
Do. Or do not. There is no try.  --Yoda, The Empire Strikes Back

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sailor

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Re: In PA, Billboard vs. Bible; Billboard Wins
« Reply #3 on: March 05, 2012, 05:58:47 pm »
Quote from: Altair;44955
Or, more accurately, "Billboard vs. Bible Thumpers" in the Pennsylvania state government, who decided to stick their religion where it doesn't belong. Apparently they passed a proclamation declaring this the "Year of the Bible." This is how the Amercan Atheists Inc. and PA Nonbelievers are responding. I think it's brilliant.

Pennsylvania Atheist Group Buys Billboard To Exploit ‘Year of the Bible’

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2012/03/02/pennsylvania-atheist-group-buys-billboard-to-exploit-year-of-the-bible/

Best quote from the above site:
"How can Christians possibly complain when it’s their own holy book?"

(If the above site isn't loading properly--I'm having trouble with it at the moment--try this one:
http://www.opposingviews.com/i/religion/religion-society/atheist-billboard-goes-harrisburg-pennsylvania )

 
Minor problem. The quote from the New Testement is not bronze age, it is well past the iron age, specifically mid Roman empire.

Although at least this time the atheists did the right thing PR wise. Rather than sueing, they used sarcasm.

Although it does lead to a larger debate.  Should any legislative body (or excutive office) pass statements that have no legal effect?

For a counter example, if there is Black History month as an official proclamation, isn't that discriminatory if there isn't one for all other races if declaring this the year of hte bible is a 1st amendment entanglement?  Similar with the Gov of MA, Dukasis, declaring Lauri Cabot official witch of Salem or MA?

RandallS

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Re: In PA, Billboard vs. Bible; Billboard Wins
« Reply #4 on: March 05, 2012, 06:55:24 pm »
Quote from: sailor;44989
Although at least this time the atheists did the right thing PR wise. Rather than sueing, they used sarcasm.

Agreed, although I suspect the backlash from the Religious Right will be abou the same as if they had wasted time and money in court.

Quote
Although it does lead to a larger debate.  Should any legislative body (or excutive office) pass statements that have no legal effect?

They have always done so and probably always will. So long as people realize that these statements are meaningless legally, I don't think it is worth fighting.

Quote
For a counter example, if there is Black History month as an official proclamation, isn't that discriminatory if there isn't one for all other races if declaring this the year of hte bible is a 1st amendment entanglement?  Similar with the Gov of MA, Dukasis, declaring Lauri Cabot official witch of Salem or MA?

As these have no legal force or effect, I don't think the First Amendment's separation of church and state comes into play at all.
Randall
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mlr52

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Re: In PA, Billboard vs. Bible; Billboard Wins
« Reply #5 on: March 05, 2012, 08:06:24 pm »
Quote from: sailor;44989
 Should any legislative body (or excutive office) pass statements that have no legal effect?

For a counter example, if there is Black History month as an official proclamation, isn't that discriminatory if there isn't one for all other races if declaring this the year of hte bible is a 1st amendment entanglement?  Similar with the Gov of MA, Dukasis, declaring Lauri Cabot official witch of Salem or MA?

 
In the US February is Black History month.
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Altair

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Re: In PA, Billboard vs. Bible; Billboard Wins
« Reply #6 on: March 07, 2012, 02:28:46 pm »
Quote from: Altair;44955
"How can Christians possibly complain when it’s their own holy book?"


Well...

Atheist Billboard Quoting Bible Verse Vandalized in Pennsylvania

"That didn’t take very long…

"Just one day after being put up, the PA Nonbelievers’ billboard has been vandalized..."

For the story, click http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/ and scroll down.
The first song sets the wheel in motion / The second is a song of love / The third song tells of Her devotion / The fourth cries joy from the sky above
The fifth song binds our fate to silence / and bids us live each moment well / The sixth unleashes rage and violence / The seventh song has truth to tell
The last song echoes through the ages / to ask its question all night long / And close the circle on these pages / These, the metamythos songs

MadZealot

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Re: In PA, Billboard vs. Bible; Billboard Wins
« Reply #7 on: March 07, 2012, 03:52:00 pm »
Hmph.  A text without context is a pretext.

Quote from: sailor;44989
Minor problem. The quote from the New Testement is not bronze age, it is well past the iron age, specifically mid Roman empire.

Another minor problem: the Biblical verse does NOT condone slavery, no matter how the American Atheists spin it.  The free-'thinker' who came up with this poster is guilty of disingenuous bulshittery.  
And putting a black man in the slave collarS?  Nope, not trying for any visceral reaction there.  :ashamed:

Col 3:18-25 contain, in toto, regulations for Christian households, including wives, husbands, children, and slaves, who were considered part of the household.  Verses 22-25 say to the slave: go ahead and serve your earthy boss, but never forget your REAL boss is the Lord Christ.  Slaves were a part of the household when this epistle was written; mention of a practice is not a condonement of it.
Spider Man 3 never happened. And Epstein didn't kill himself.

MadZealot

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Re: In PA, Billboard vs. Bible; Billboard Wins
« Reply #8 on: March 07, 2012, 03:55:14 pm »
Quote from: Altair;45180
Well...

Atheist Billboard Quoting Bible Verse Vandalized in Pennsylvania

"That didn’t take very long…

"Just one day after being put up, the PA Nonbelievers’ billboard has been vandalized..."

For the story, click http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/ and scroll down.


No surprise.  You poke fun at a dominant religion, with an aim to ridicule and poorly armed with facts, someone is bound to poke back.  
In some countries, bashing the dominant religion will get you killed.
Spider Man 3 never happened. And Epstein didn't kill himself.

Skyth

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Re: In PA, Billboard vs. Bible; Billboard Wins
« Reply #9 on: March 07, 2012, 03:57:55 pm »
Quote from: MadZealot;45183
, someone is bound to poke back.  
In some countries, bashing the dominant religion will get you killed.

 
And in neither case does it make it the right thing to do to vandalize something or kill someone.

Skyth

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Re: In PA, Billboard vs. Bible; Billboard Wins
« Reply #10 on: March 07, 2012, 04:03:45 pm »
Quote from: MadZealot;45182
Slaves were a part of the household when this epistle was written; mention of a practice is not a condonement of it.

 
Actually, since there is nothing in the bible saying that slavery is wrong and in fact there are verses telling people to enslave other people...I'd say that the passage is in face condoning the practice.

MadZealot

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Re: In PA, Billboard vs. Bible; Billboard Wins
« Reply #11 on: March 07, 2012, 04:24:19 pm »
Quote from: Skyth;45184
And in neither case does it make it the right thing to do to vandalize something or kill someone.

 
Of course not.  The atheists in question have full rights to put up their idiotic board.  In

My point is: if you strike out too hard against a 'norm', expect an inevitable backlash.  Not saying it's right or wrong, more like action and reaction.
Spider Man 3 never happened. And Epstein didn't kill himself.

MadZealot

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Re: In PA, Billboard vs. Bible; Billboard Wins
« Reply #12 on: March 07, 2012, 04:41:38 pm »
Quote from: Skyth;45185
Actually, since there is nothing in the bible saying that slavery is wrong and in fact there are verses telling people to enslave other people...I'd say that the passage is in face condoning the practice.
And I'd say you're wrong.
Again: mention of a practice is not a condonement of it.  Slavery was mentioned in Gone With the Wind as well, does that mean Margaret Mitchell condoned it?
Here is all of Colossians 3.  Errant Scripture-clippings make more sense when viewed in their proper context.

Living as Those Made Alive in Christ
 1 Since, then, you have been raised with Christ, set your hearts on things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God. 2 Set your minds on things above, not on earthly things. 3 For you died, and your life is now hidden with Christ in God. 4 When Christ, who is your[a] life, appears, then you also will appear with him in glory.
 5 Put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry. 6 Because of these, the wrath of God is coming. 7 You used to walk in these ways, in the life you once lived. 8 But now you must also rid yourselves of all such things as these: anger, rage, malice, slander, and filthy language from your lips. 9 Do not lie to each other, since you have taken off your old self with its practices 10 and have put on the new self, which is being renewed in knowledge in the image of its Creator. 11 Here there is no Gentile or Jew, circumcised or uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave or free, but Christ is all, and is in all.

 12 Therefore, as God’s chosen people, holy and dearly loved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience. 13 Bear with each other and forgive one another if any of you has a grievance against someone. Forgive as the Lord forgave you. 14 And over all these virtues put on love, which binds them all together in perfect unity.

 15 Let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts, since as members of one body you were called to peace. And be thankful. 16 Let the message of Christ dwell among you richly as you teach and admonish one another with all wisdom through psalms, hymns, and songs from the Spirit, singing to God with gratitude in your hearts. 17 And whatever you do, whether in word or deed, do it all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through him.

Instructions for Christian Households
 18 Wives, submit yourselves to your husbands, as is fitting in the Lord.
 19 Husbands, love your wives and do not be harsh with them.

 20 Children, obey your parents in everything, for this pleases the Lord.

 21 Fathers,[c] do not embitter your children, or they will become discouraged.

22 Slaves, obey your earthly masters in everything; and do it, not only when their eye is on you and to curry their favor, but with sincerity of heart and reverence for the Lord. 23 Whatever you do, work at it with all your heart, as working for the Lord, not for human masters, 24 since you know that you will receive an inheritance from the Lord as a reward. It is the Lord Christ you are serving. 25 Anyone who does wrong will be repaid for their wrongs, and there is no favoritism.

Now, what in there, besides a factual mention mention, construes a condonement of slavery?  Encouragment of it?  
If the apostle Paul had wanted to prattle on about the good of slavery, he would've.  The man was a gifted prattler.
In fact, we have no idea whatsoever regarding the author's feelings on the issue of slavery-- whether he condones or opposes it-- quite simply because he doesn't tell us.

[For the record: the Atheist billboard doesn't even quote the entire verse, for if it did, it would not make its puerile point.]

Quote
in fact there are verses telling people to enslave other people...
Examples please.  
Not casual mentions of the practice, but real exhortations to enslave.  
Please cite chapter, and verse, and stay within context.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2012, 04:48:58 pm by MadZealot »
Spider Man 3 never happened. And Epstein didn't kill himself.

Altair

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Re: In PA, Billboard vs. Bible; Billboard Wins
« Reply #13 on: March 07, 2012, 04:48:24 pm »
Quote from: MadZealot;45182
the Biblical verse does NOT condone slavery, no matter how the American Atheists spin it.


What's to spin? "Slaves, obey your masters" seems fairly unambiguous to me.

Quote
Col 3:18-25 contain, in toto, regulations for Christian households, including wives, husbands, children, and slaves, who were considered part of the household.  Verses 22-25 say to the slave: go ahead and serve your earthy boss, but never forget your REAL boss is the Lord Christ.  Slaves were a part of the household when this epistle was written; mention of a practice is not a condonement of it.


To look an abhorrent practice directly in the eye and fail to condemn it, in a text purporting to uphold moral conduct, no less, is reprehensible. The fact that the context of the times was different is precisely the American Atheists' point: Legislators, stop trying to foist your majority religion (or any religion) on us, because if you do, we will point out that in these modern times, much of it fails to pass muster.

And lots of slaveholders in the Old South considered some of their slaves "part of the household" too. That didn't make it any better.
The first song sets the wheel in motion / The second is a song of love / The third song tells of Her devotion / The fourth cries joy from the sky above
The fifth song binds our fate to silence / and bids us live each moment well / The sixth unleashes rage and violence / The seventh song has truth to tell
The last song echoes through the ages / to ask its question all night long / And close the circle on these pages / These, the metamythos songs

MadZealot

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Re: In PA, Billboard vs. Bible; Billboard Wins
« Reply #14 on: March 07, 2012, 05:00:19 pm »
Quote from: Altair;45191
What's to spin? "Slaves, obey your masters" seems fairly unambiguous to me.
What does the rest of the verse say?  The Atheists only lifted the first four words.



Quote
To look an abhorrent practice directly in the eye and fail to condemn it, in a text purporting to uphold moral conduct, no less, is reprehensible. The fact that the context of the times was different is precisely the American Atheists' point: Legislators, stop trying to foist your majority religion (or any religion) on us, because if you do, we will point out that in these modern times, much of it fails to pass muster.

Fine if they want to make that point; I'd agree with them.  But they can do that without errant scripture-clippings and poor representation of the facts.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2012, 05:00:35 pm by MadZealot »
Spider Man 3 never happened. And Epstein didn't kill himself.

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