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Author Topic: Debate over Christians' right to refer to God as 'Allah' results in first-ever raid.  (Read 1830 times)

mlr52

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After 'Allah' Bibles Seized, Leader Tells 2,500 Churches To Resist Malaysia's Muslim Police
Debate over Christians' right to refer to God as 'Allah' results in first-ever raid.
Sarah Eekhoff Zylstra [ posted 1/10/2014 11:14AM ] retrieved from

http://www.christianitytoday.com/gleanings/2014/january/after-allah-bibles-seized-leader-tells-churches-malaysia.html?utm_source=ctweekly-html&utm_medium=Newsletter&utm_term=13753840&utm_content=239026883&utm_campaign=2013

The leader of Malaysia's evangelicals says Muslim religious authorities had no right to confiscate more than 300 Bibles from the Bible Society of Malaysia (BSM) last week.

The incident, the latest in the ongoing debate over whether Christians in Southeast Asia have the right to refer to God as Allah, was the first-ever government raid of the nation's Christian community.

(snip)

Displaying 1–1 of 1 comments

David Lloyd-Jones
January 10, 2014

It is difficult to understand this situation without any information on how this name "Allah" got into a "Christian" Bible. This is the first time I have heard of anything but "God," "Jehovah," "JHVH," or "El" being used for the Bibles' god. It rather looks as though somebody has chosen this new, different, and anachronistic name for the purpose of raising hackles in the community. Are insult, trouble-making, and uproar the real intentions of the "Christians" involved here? Aren't we entitled to a wee bit more reporting? -dlj.  

Seems like a provaction from whoever provided the bibles, it is not an opps.
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Sarah

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Quote from: mlr52;135906
After 'Allah' Bibles Seized, Leader Tells 2,500 Churches To Resist Malaysia's Muslim Police
Debate over Christians' right to refer to God as 'Allah' results in first-ever raid.
Sarah Eekhoff Zylstra [ posted 1/10/2014 11:14AM ] retrieved from

http://www.christianitytoday.com/gleanings/2014/january/after-allah-bibles-seized-leader-tells-churches-malaysia.html?utm_source=ctweekly-html&utm_medium=Newsletter&utm_term=13753840&utm_content=239026883&utm_campaign=2013

The leader of Malaysia's evangelicals says Muslim religious authorities had no right to confiscate more than 300 Bibles from the Bible Society of Malaysia (BSM) last week.

The incident, the latest in the ongoing debate over whether Christians in Southeast Asia have the right to refer to God as Allah, was the first-ever government raid of the nation's Christian community.

(snip)

Displaying 1–1 of 1 comments

David Lloyd-Jones
January 10, 2014

It is difficult to understand this situation without any information on how this name "Allah" got into a "Christian" Bible. This is the first time I have heard of anything but "God," "Jehovah," "JHVH," or "El" being used for the Bibles' god. It rather looks as though somebody has chosen this new, different, and anachronistic name for the purpose of raising hackles in the community. Are insult, trouble-making, and uproar the real intentions of the "Christians" involved here? Aren't we entitled to a wee bit more reporting? -dlj.  

Seems like a provaction from whoever provided the bibles, it is not an opps.

 
Allah is the Arabic word for god, it is used by Christians who speak Arabic. Malaysia uses many Arabic phrases because of the influence of Islam through history, so I'm pretty sure that "insult, trouble-making, and uproar" are not the real intentions.
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mlr52

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Quote from: maybeimawitch;135907
Allah is the Arabic word for god, it is used by Christians who speak Arabic. Malaysia uses many Arabic phrases because of the influence of Islam through history, so I'm pretty sure that "insult, trouble-making, and uproar" are not the real intentions.

 
The artical said use of Allah in the Bible was banned, yet it was used anyway.
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Naomi J

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Quote from: maybeimawitch;135907
Allah is the Arabic word for god, it is used by Christians who speak Arabic. Malaysia uses many Arabic phrases because of the influence of Islam through history, so I'm pretty sure that "insult, trouble-making, and uproar" are not the real intentions.

Indeed. My Israeli in-laws slip into Arabic for some things, and say 'insh'Allah' and other references to Allah all the time. I'm totally confused by the use of the Arabic word for 'God' being a problem.
"We're all stories, in the end. Make it a good one, eh?"
- Doctor Who

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Chabas

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Quote from: mlr52;135909
The artical said use of Allah in the Bible was banned, yet it was used anyway.

 
Yes. What do you expect will happen if you ban the use of the word "God" in the Bible?

--Chabas

mlr52

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Quote from: Chabas;135918
Yes. What do you expect will happen if you ban the use of the word "God" in the Bible?

--Chabas

 
A better set of stories, mass riots, denucations, and blood in the streets. Look at the uproar over the finding the "lost books of the Bible".

The problem with using just the word God is that it is impercise.  Putting the word Allah in the Bible, because of ancient useage would lead one to think of the Muslim God, not the Trinity, or the Hebrew God of the Old Testement.
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Gaudior

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Quote from: mlr52;135906
After 'Allah' Bibles Seized, Leader Tells 2,500 Churches To Resist Malaysia's Muslim Police
Debate over Christians' right to refer to God as 'Allah' results in first-ever raid.
Sarah Eekhoff Zylstra [ posted 1/10/2014 11:14AM ] retrieved from

http://www.christianitytoday.com/gleanings/2014/january/after-allah-bibles-seized-leader-tells-churches-malaysia.html?utm_source=ctweekly-html&utm_medium=Newsletter&utm_term=13753840&utm_content=239026883&utm_campaign=2013

The leader of Malaysia's evangelicals says Muslim religious authorities had no right to confiscate more than 300 Bibles from the Bible Society of Malaysia (BSM) last week.

The incident, the latest in the ongoing debate over whether Christians in Southeast Asia have the right to refer to God as Allah, was the first-ever government raid of the nation's Christian community.

(snip)

Displaying 1–1 of 1 comments

David Lloyd-Jones
January 10, 2014

It is difficult to understand this situation without any information on how this name "Allah" got into a "Christian" Bible. This is the first time I have heard of anything but "God," "Jehovah," "JHVH," or "El" being used for the Bibles' god. It rather looks as though somebody has chosen this new, different, and anachronistic name for the purpose of raising hackles in the community. Are insult, trouble-making, and uproar the real intentions of the "Christians" involved here? Aren't we entitled to a wee bit more reporting? -dlj.  

Seems like a provaction from whoever provided the bibles, it is not an opps.


Arab Christians were saying Allah long before Islam came along. The Coptic Christians still refer to God as Allah. This whole thing is so stupid.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2014, 08:20:19 am by Gaudior »

RandallS

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Quote from: mlr52;135925
The problem with using just the word God is that it is impercise.  Putting the word Allah in the Bible, because of ancient useage would lead one to think of the Muslim God, not the Trinity, or the Hebrew God of the Old Testement.

However, in Arabic speaking countries with a Christian population, using the Arabic word for "God" which is "Allah" does not seem to cause many problems. According to Islam, the God of Islam is the same God as the God of the Christians and the God of the Jews so requiring a different name be used in the Bible would make no sense.

Here's what Wikipedia says in the article on Allah:

Quote
Christianity

The Aramaic word for "God" in the language of Assyrian Christians is ʼĔlāhā, or Alaha. Arabic-speakers of all Abrahamic faiths, including Christians and Jews, use the word "Allah" to mean "God".[7] The Christian Arabs of today have no other word for "God" than "Allah".[15] (Even the Arabic-descended Maltese language of Malta, whose population is almost entirely Roman Catholic, uses Alla for "God".) Arab Christians for example use terms Allāh al-ab (الله الأب) meaning God the Father, Allāh al-ibn (الله الابن) mean God the Son, and Allāh al-rūḥ al-quds (الله الروح القدس) meaning God the Holy Spirit. (See God in Christianity for the Christian concept of God.)


 Arab Christians have used two forms of invocations that were affixed to the beginning of their written works. They adopted the Muslim bismillāh, and also created their own Trinitized bismillāh as early as the 8th century CE.[37] The Muslim bismillāh reads: "In the name of God, the Compassionate, the Merciful." The Trinitized bismillāh reads: "In the name of Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, One God." The Syriac, Latin and Greek invocations do not have the words "One God" at the end. This addition was made to emphasize the monotheistic aspect of Trinitian belief and also to make it more palatable to Muslims.[37]


 According to Marshall Hodgson,  it seems that in the pre-Islamic times, some Arab Christians made  pilgrimage to the Ka‘bah, a pagan temple at that time, honoring Allah  there as God the Creator.[38]


 Some archaeological excavation quests have led to the discovery of ancient Pre-Islamic inscriptions and tombs made by Arabic-speaking Christians in the ruins of a church at Umm el-Jimal in Northern Jordan,  which contained references to Allah as the proper name of God, and some  of the graves contained names such as "Abd Allah" which means "the  servant/slave of Allah".[39][40][41]


 The name Allah can be found countless times in the reports and the  lists of names of Christian martyrs in South Arabia, as reported by  antique Syriac documents of the names of those martyrs from the era of  the Himyarite & Aksumite kingdoms.[42][43]


 A Christian leader named Abd Allah ibn Abu Bakr ibn Muhammad was  martyred in Najran in 523 AD, and he had worn a ring that said "Allah is  my lord".[43][44]


 In an inscription of Christian martyrion dated back to 512 AD,  references to Allah can be found in both Arabic and Aramaic, which  called him "Allah" and "Alaha", and the inscription starts with the  statement "By the Help of Allah".[43][45][46]


 In Pre-Islamic Gospels, the name used for God was "Allah", as evidenced by some discovered Arabic versions of the New Testamentt written by Arab Christians during the Pre-Islamic era in Northern and Southern Arabia.[43][47][48]


 Pre-Islamic Arab Christians have been reported to have raised the battle cry "Ya La Ibad Allah" (O slaves of Allah) to invoke each other into battle.[49]


 "Allah" was also mentioned in pre-Islamic Christian poems by some Ghassanid and Tanukhid poets in Syria and Northern Arabia.[50][51][52]

That said, the native language of Malaysia is not Arabic.
Randall
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Gaudior

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Quote from: RandallS;135930
A Christian leader named Abd Allah ibn Abu Bakr ibn Muhammad was martyred in Najran in 523 AD, and he had worn a ring that said "Allah is my lord".

 

That's amazing! I'm sending this to my evangelical friend. I wanna see her head explode xD

mlr52

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Quote from: RandallS;135930
However, in Arabic speaking countries with a Christian population, using the Arabic word for "God" which is "Allah" does not seem to cause many problems. According to Islam, the God of Islam is the same God as the God of the Christians and the God of the Jews so requiring a different name be used in the Bible would make no sense.

(snip)

That said, the native language of Malaysia is not Arabic.

 
I understand your point.  It is the knee jerk reaction that is the problem.  My mother, a Baptist gets upset everytime she sees me with a Bible that is not the King James Version, and she will go on for days about how she did not raise me to read such.

I am a Free and Accepted Mason, my Masonic Bible (KJV) has a picture of George Washinton in it, and that set her off.
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RandallS

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Quote from: mlr52;135933
I understand your point.  It is the knee jerk reaction that is the problem.  My mother, a Baptist gets upset everytime she sees me with a Bible that is not the King James Version, and she will go on for days about how she did not raise me to read such.

I do hope she's not someone who believes the KJV is what God wrote. :)
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MadZealot

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Quote from: mlr52;135933
My mother, a Baptist gets upset everytime she sees me with a Bible that is not the King James Version, and she will go on for days about how she did not raise me to read such.
That's funny, 'cause the KJV is... well... kinda buggy.

Quote
I am a Free and Accepted Mason, my Masonic Bible (KJV) has a picture of George Washinton in it, and that set her off.
Lemme guess.  Because he was a Mason, right?
« Last Edit: January 11, 2014, 04:06:00 pm by MadZealot »
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mlr52

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Quote from: MadZealot;135961
That's funny, 'cause the KJV is... well... kinda buggy.


Lemme guess.  Because he was a Mason, right?

 
Buggy? That is kind.

Because he is in it, not because he was a Mason.  The Franklin Bible she asked where is the rest of it.  The New World Bible she said throw it out, same for the New International Verson, and the New Revised Standard Version she would not look at.
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Quote from: mlr52;135981
Because he is in it, not because he was a Mason.  The Franklin Bible she asked where is the rest of it.  The New World Bible she said throw it out, same for the New International Verson, and the New Revised Standard Version she would not look at.


You can always give her a peek of the Orthodox Study Bible and have her screaming 'idols' before she even notices the 'extra' books! :whis:
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Quote from: Chatelaine;135984
You can always give her a peek of the Orthodox Study Bible and have her screaming 'idols' before she even notices the 'extra' books! :whis:

 
I have that :D

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