collapse

Author Topic: Chant the 'wrong' way and be hexed - Z's threat for 'misusing' her chant  (Read 17598 times)

Tana

  • Staff
  • *
  • Join Date: Jun 2011
  • Posts: 2295
  • Total likes: 3
    • View Profile
Z. is claiming that to include a god in her chant, is a misuse and everybody, who will use the chant 'wrong' by altering it, will be hexed.

Somehow I think the part about intellectual property is not really her point in this.


Quote
Dearest Friends!
I would like you to help me spread the words that Singing "We all come from the Goddess" should NOT BE rewritten.

http://www.facebook.com/zbudapest/posts/3332681429068
\'You had to repay, good or bad. There was more than one type of obligation.
That’s what people never really understood.….Things had to balance.
You couldn’t set out to be a good witch or a bad witch. It never worked out for long.
All you could try to be was a witch, as hard as you could.\'
Terry Pratchett \'Lords and Ladies\'

Confuzzled and proud. :p

Darkhawk

  • Senior Staff
  • *
  • Join Date: Jun 2011
  • Posts: 4783
  • Country: us
  • Total likes: 653
    • View Profile
    • Suns in her Branches
  • Religion: An American Werewolf in the Akhet; Kemetic; Feri; Imaginary Baltic Heathen; Discordian; CoX; Etc.
  • Preferred Pronouns: any of he, she, they
Quote from: Tana;50706
Somehow I think the part about intellectual property is not really her point in this.

 
And even if it were, that's not how IP law works.  I suspect that any additional verses would be considered transformative works and thus protected.

Parody is also protected.  In case anyone was interested.

(Comment on this I saw on FB was roughly "Get with your hexing, Z, there are a lot of us out here with mirrors.")
as the water grinds the stone
we rise and fall
as our ashes turn to dust
we shine like stars    - Covenant, "Bullet"

Melamphoros

  • Staff
  • *
  • Join Date: Jun 2011
  • Posts: 2746
  • Total likes: 2
    • View Profile
Quote from: Tana;50706
Z. is claiming that to include a god in her chant, is a misuse and everybody, who will use the chant 'wrong' by altering it, will be hexed.

Somehow I think the part about intellectual property is not really her point in this.

 
Oh Z, you're trying your hardest to remind people you are still around.  And yet, all you're doing is reminding us just how out of touch and irrelevant you have become.

I'd feel sad for her if her head wasn't buried deep up her ass.


Jesus saves, Allah forgives, Cthulhu thinks you will make a great sandwich.
My Spiritual Blog

yewberry

  • Grand Master Member
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jul 2011
  • Posts: 1775
  • Total likes: 1
    • View Profile
Quote from: Darkhawk;50707
"Get with your hexing, Z, there are a lot of us out here with mirrors."


{golf clap}

Carry on...

Brina

Teigue

  • Apprentice
  • ***
  • Join Date: Apr 2012
  • Posts: 21
  • Total likes: 0
    • View Profile
    • http://teigue.wordpress.com/
Quote from: Melamphoros;50708
Oh Z, you're trying your hardest to remind people you are still around.  And yet, all you're doing is reminding us just how out of touch and irrelevant you have become.

I'd feel sad for her if her head wasn't buried deep up her ass.

Mel, the technical term for it is "Acute anal-cranial inversion"

and I'm afraid that her case is terminal

Melamphoros

  • Staff
  • *
  • Join Date: Jun 2011
  • Posts: 2746
  • Total likes: 2
    • View Profile
Quote from: Teigue;50711
Mel, the technical term for it is "Acute anal-cranial inversion"

and I'm afraid that her case is terminal

 
I prefer my phrasing, it sounds a lot nastier:ange:


Jesus saves, Allah forgives, Cthulhu thinks you will make a great sandwich.
My Spiritual Blog

Tana

  • Staff
  • *
  • Join Date: Jun 2011
  • Posts: 2295
  • Total likes: 3
    • View Profile
Quote from: Darkhawk;50707
And even if it were, that's not how IP law works.  I suspect that any additional verses would be considered transformative works and thus protected.



While she has the right to be given credit and has the right to be paid for it, when the chant is used on CDs and so on, I think it absolutely over the top to 'hex' anyone using the chant with additions, because she does not like them.

Personally I am not scared of this hex, honestly I think Z is delusional.
She is not so allmighty that she can hex each and every person on the world, using the chant in another way and if she really believes she can - she is beyond help.
\'You had to repay, good or bad. There was more than one type of obligation.
That’s what people never really understood.….Things had to balance.
You couldn’t set out to be a good witch or a bad witch. It never worked out for long.
All you could try to be was a witch, as hard as you could.\'
Terry Pratchett \'Lords and Ladies\'

Confuzzled and proud. :p

cigfran

  • Master Member
  • ******
  • Join Date: Jan 2012
  • Posts: 421
  • Total likes: 0
    • View Profile
    • http://cigfran.net
Quote from: Tana;50706
She is not so allmighty that she can hex each and every person on the world, using the chant in another way and if she really believes she can - she is beyond help.

Absurd though the whole thing is, taken out of context it's an elegant idea... construct a charm so finely crafted that any effort to modify it triggers hidden traps... sing a song so esoterically composed that any improper performance brings a result opposite to its first intent.

The stuff of fiction - I can't imagine any mages of this caliber in our world today - but interesting in its own way.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2012, 10:52:24 am by cigfran »

Tana

  • Staff
  • *
  • Join Date: Jun 2011
  • Posts: 2295
  • Total likes: 3
    • View Profile
Quote from: cigfran;50714
Absurd though the whole thing is, taken out of context it's an elegant idea... construct a charm so finely crafted that any effort to modify it triggers hidden traps... sing a song so esoterically composed that any improper performance brings a result opposite to its first intent.

The stuff of fiction - I can't imagine any mages of this caliber in our world today - but interesting in its own way.


Wow, when put this way... that's a hell of a great fiction idea!
\'You had to repay, good or bad. There was more than one type of obligation.
That’s what people never really understood.….Things had to balance.
You couldn’t set out to be a good witch or a bad witch. It never worked out for long.
All you could try to be was a witch, as hard as you could.\'
Terry Pratchett \'Lords and Ladies\'

Confuzzled and proud. :p

Jenett

  • Staff
  • *
  • Join Date: Jun 2011
  • Location: Boston, MA
  • Posts: 3008
  • Country: us
  • Total likes: 543
    • View Profile
    • Seeking: First steps on a path
  • Religion: Initiatory religious witchcraft
  • Preferred Pronouns: she/her
Quote from: Darkhawk;50707
And even if it were, that's not how IP law works.  I suspect that any additional verses would be considered transformative works and thus protected.

Parody is also protected.  In case anyone was interested.

(Comment on this I saw on FB was roughly "Get with your hexing, Z, there are a lot of us out here with mirrors.")


Parody's a safer bet (in terms of case precedent) than transformational work (which, oy, messy.)

One of the things that would be a consideration in a court case, I'm guessing, is proportion of original work used. When you have a 2 line work, without additional verses, it's a lot harder to make an argument about adding versions not altering the core of the work, than, say, if you had something that already had a dozen verses. (that's because part of the fair use/etc. standards look at how much of the core of the work you're using. Music and lyrics and poetry are notoriously tricky anyway. Really short chant even more so.)

But I'm not sure there actually *is* much precedent-setting law on something like this.   (If I were going to go dig, I'd go look at the various suits about Happy Birthday as a song.)
Seek Knowledge, Find Wisdom: Research help on esoteric and eclectic topics (consulting and other services)

Seeking: first steps on a Pagan path (advice for seekers and people new to Paganism)

Melamphoros

  • Staff
  • *
  • Join Date: Jun 2011
  • Posts: 2746
  • Total likes: 2
    • View Profile
Quote from: cigfran;50714
Absurd though the whole thing is, taken out of context it's an elegant idea... construct a charm so finely crafted that any effort to modify it triggers hidden traps... sing a song so esoterically composed that any improper performance brings a result opposite to its first intent.

The stuff of fiction - I can't imagine any mages of this caliber in our world today - but interesting in its own way.

 
*adds to my big list of plot ideas*


Jesus saves, Allah forgives, Cthulhu thinks you will make a great sandwich.
My Spiritual Blog

Elani Temperance

  • Master Member
  • ******
  • Join Date: Apr 2012
  • Posts: 446
  • Total likes: 0
    • View Profile
    • http://www.littlewitchmagazine.com
Quote from: Tana;50706
Z. is claiming that to include a god in her chant, is a misuse and everybody, who will use the chant 'wrong' by altering it, will be hexed.

Somehow I think the part about intellectual property is not really her point in this.

 
Way back when, when I first discovered paganism, I followed a Dianic path. Z. was a great inspiration to me (like all of her peers) and it pains me to see her this... angry.

I walked away from a Dianic path after longer study and a better understanding of deity and magick. I realized I greatly valued the balance between genders which was left out in the Dianic path. I greatly value men in paganism.

Still, Z.'s voices was one of the firsts I heard and this issue (especially after the trans one) leaves me so, so sad.
Where I ramble on: Baring the Aegis
Where I try to be coherent: Little Witch magazine
My PaganSquare blog as hosted by Witches & Pagans
Hellenic Polytheistic charity circle Pandora\'s Kharis.

SatAset

  • Master Member
  • ******
  • Join Date: Jul 2011
  • Posts: 481
  • Country: us
  • Total likes: 5
    • View Profile
    • Fiercely Bright One
  • Religion: Kemetic Orthodox
  • Preferred Pronouns: She, Her
Quote from: cigfran;50714
Absurd though the whole thing is, taken out of context it's an elegant idea... construct a charm so finely crafted that any effort to modify it triggers hidden traps... sing a song so esoterically composed that any improper performance brings a result opposite to its first intent.

The stuff of fiction - I can't imagine any mages of this caliber in our world today - but interesting in its own way.

 
That's a great idea for a fantasy book.
I am the Goddess of Who I can Become. I mix the magic of the sorceress with the blade of a warrior. I walk the liminal pathways to see the face of the Goddess, both terrible and kind. As She stares back at me, I tremble in awe and ecstasy.  --SatAset

Annie Roonie

  • Sr. Master Member
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jul 2011
  • Posts: 915
  • Total likes: 1
    • View Profile
Quote from: Melamphoros;50708
Oh Z, you're trying your hardest to remind people you are still around.  And yet, all you're doing is reminding us just how out of touch and irrelevant you have become.

I'd feel sad for her if her head wasn't buried deep up her ass.

I did not know who she was before undies were vocally twisted about her bigotry two years ago. Then again this year and louder. And I think she is addicted now. She's said how much she enjoyed creating controversy. Eating that asparagus and peeing on public lawns. And she cannot have been this successful in getting attention before. I'm guessing the FB comments alone number more than her students for her first ten years.  She's an opportunist by nature (I think she's actually said this in a vid and encourages others to be), she's got to monetize this somehow. Even the increase of clicks to her page is going to help her.

So I think you're half to three quarters right. She is trying to remind people she is still around and that she IS at all for many. But her head seems more buried in her bottom line than her ass exactly. Very close they are though.

From what I've read she was a low level niche door opener in the wider women's movement; now she's a low level internet troll.  

I've never heard the song/chant. If I can escape that, I win a giant can of asparagus.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2012, 12:21:00 pm by Annie Roonie »

Lokabrenna

  • Sr. Master Member
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jul 2011
  • Posts: 829
  • Total likes: 1
    • View Profile
Quote from: LittleWitchMagazine;50725
Way back when, when I first discovered paganism, I followed a Dianic path. Z. was a great inspiration to me (like all of her peers) and it pains me to see her this... angry.

I walked away from a Dianic path after longer study and a better understanding of deity and magick. I realized I greatly valued the balance between genders which was left out in the Dianic path. I greatly value men in paganism.

Still, Z.'s voices was one of the firsts I heard and this issue (especially after the trans one) leaves me so, so sad.

 
This was the same thing I went through, although, it should be noted that her transphobia does come up in her writings, and was not exclusive to the PantheaCon fiascos.

I support her desire to take credit where credit is due (and it sounds like she might have a case), but threatening people with hexes is a new low.

Tags:
 

Related Topics

  Subject / Started by Replies Last post
5 Replies
1547 Views
Last post December 25, 2011, 06:08:42 pm
by dragonfaerie
7 Replies
589 Views
Last post March 07, 2013, 06:22:27 pm
by Rhyshadow
1 Replies
1015 Views
Last post April 03, 2013, 09:28:24 am
by Rhyshadow
4 Replies
1025 Views
Last post August 25, 2015, 02:43:29 am
by ciaofornow
3 Replies
496 Views
Last post August 27, 2017, 02:29:39 pm
by Waldhexe

* Who's Online

  • Dot Guests: 36
  • Dot Hidden: 0
  • Dot Users: 3
  • Dot Users Online:

* Please Donate!

The Cauldron's server is expensive and requires monthly payments. Please become a Bronze, Silver or Gold Donor if you can. Donations are needed every month. Without member support, we can't afford the server.

* In Memoriam

Chavi (2006)
Elspeth (2010)
Marilyn (2013)

* Cauldron Staff

Co-Hosts:
LyricFox & Randall

Senior Staff:
Darkhawk

Message Board Staff
Board Coordinator:
Sunflower

Assistant Board Coordinator:
Aster Breo

Board Staff:
Allaya, Chatelaine, HarpingHawke, Jenett, Morag, rocquelaire, Sefiru

Discord Chat Staff
Chat Coordinator:
Morag

Reserve Staff:
Aisling

Cauldron Council:
Bob, Catja, Emma-Eldritch, Fausta, Jubes, Kelly, Phouka, Sperran, Star, Steve, Tana

Cauldron Assistants
[Non-Staff Positions]

Site Assistants
[Non-Staff Positions]
Webmaster:
Randall