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Author Topic: Arizona legislature passes bill allowing anti-gay discrimination  (Read 6659 times)

Melamphoros

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Re: Arizona legislature passes bill allowing anti-gay discrimination
« Reply #60 on: February 26, 2014, 05:08:49 pm »
Quote from: Altair;141016

Texas' ban on gay marriage ruled unconstitutional


 
I can't deny it, I cackled when I saw the headline

Quote

Randall, feel free to give us a report from the ground. I'm sure many heads out there are spinning like Linda Blair's.

 
:pop:


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mandrina

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Re: Arizona legislature passes bill allowing anti-gay discrimination
« Reply #61 on: February 26, 2014, 05:29:11 pm »
Quote from: sailor;141014
Well, let's develop this line of thought a bit.

Are there any circumstances where an organization can say that people of a certain group (race, ethnicity, religion, gender, national origin, sexual orientation, gender definition) can not hire the organization's services (say a computer support company)?  join the club (say a country club or gym) that is open to the general public other than the specific group?

Does it matter if the organization is a for-profit, not-for-profit or non-profit?  Does it matter if the people running the organization get paid or not paid for doing so?  

Does it matter if the people running the group, or some of the clients or members are offended by the to be excluded group?


If it is open to the general public other than the specific group, then there will be a problem with denying service to pretty much anyone unless we are talking illegal activities.  If the church hires out for weddings to people of any denomination, then guess what, when two christian gays want to get married, there might be a problem, if they refuse to rent to them. 'm not saying they have to have the church's minister do the wedding unless he hires out for all comers as well..  I'm pretty sure they can get away with not renting for a polygamous marriage, since those are still illegal.  

THe adolf hitler cake from a couple years back is a problem, but i'd have to side with the parents.  the name itself is not a cuss word and they are within their rights to name the child such.
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sailor

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Re: Arizona legislature passes bill allowing anti-gay discrimination
« Reply #62 on: February 26, 2014, 05:39:21 pm »
Quote from: mandrina;141027


THe adolf hitler cake from a couple years back is a problem, but i'd have to side with the parents.  the name itself is not a cuss word and they are within their rights to name the child such.

 
Maybe up until about a year ago how about pejorative words?  If you can discriminate on words on a cake, would those words also have to be banned from the public airwaves?  Or if it's a bad enough word to permit discrimination, would the word be bad enough to be banned from radio or broadcast TV?  How about such words being played loud enough to be heard by a passerby of a car? (not getting into car stereos played really loud, that can be content neutral noise control).

MadZealot

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Re: Arizona legislature passes bill allowing anti-gay discrimination
« Reply #63 on: February 26, 2014, 08:00:10 pm »
Quote from: Altair;141016
Chalk up another loss, this time...wait for it...

...in TEXAS.

(You know that's gotta hurt!)


Just saw a FB post from George Takei.  Apparently AZ's Guvnor has vetoed the "Turn Away the Gays" law.
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mandrina

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Re: Arizona legislature passes bill allowing anti-gay discrimination
« Reply #64 on: February 26, 2014, 09:36:27 pm »
Quote from: sailor;141029
Maybe up until about a year ago how about pejorative words?  If you can discriminate on words on a cake, would those words also have to be banned from the public airwaves?  Or if it's a bad enough word to permit discrimination, would the word be bad enough to be banned from radio or broadcast TV?  How about such words being played loud enough to be heard by a passerby of a car? (not getting into car stereos played really loud, that can be content neutral noise control).

 
  why up to a year ago?
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RandallS

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Re: Arizona legislature passes bill allowing anti-gay discrimination
« Reply #65 on: February 26, 2014, 10:04:06 pm »
Quote from: Altair;141016
Randall, feel free to give us a report from the ground. I'm sure many heads out there are spinning like Linda Blair's.

The usual social conservative wingnuts are ranting, but it's fairly low key. Since the judge stayed his decision nothing is actually happening. Most of the conservative rants are about how a judge should not be able to redefine marriage from what it says in the state constitution. Of course, the judge did not do that, the ruling doesn't attemp to define marriage at all, it just says the the definition Texas uses violates parts of the federal constitution that supersede what the state wants.

What will be more interesting are sermons from ultra-fundie TV preachers over the next couple of weeks.
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RandallS

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Re: Arizona legislature passes bill allowing anti-gay discrimination
« Reply #66 on: February 26, 2014, 10:08:34 pm »
Quote from: Altair;140671

Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill

http://www.cnn.com/2014/02/21/us/arizona-anti-gay-bill/


I just saw this from Leonard Pitts: Maybe it’s time to say, Enough: Boycott Arizona.
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Altair

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Re: Arizona legislature passes bill allowing anti-gay discrimination
« Reply #67 on: February 26, 2014, 10:53:38 pm »
Quote from: MadZealot;141066
Just saw a FB post from George Takei.  Apparently AZ's Guvnor has vetoed the "Turn Away the Gays" law.


Yup.

http://www.azcentral.com/news/politics/articles/20140226arizona-jan-brewer-1062-statement.html

And several other states that were considering similar legislation a folding on the issue--withdrawing the bills, letting them die a quiet death, etc. It's fascinating how the politics of this has played out.
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sailor

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Re: Arizona legislature passes bill allowing anti-gay discrimination
« Reply #68 on: February 27, 2014, 02:11:44 am »
Quote from: mandrina;141080
why up to a year ago?

 
Case out of NYC of a Black manager using the word Ni**** with a Black employee.  Court ruled that the word constitutes harassment pretty much no matter the context.

Materialist

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Re: Arizona legislature passes bill allowing anti-gay discrimination
« Reply #69 on: March 01, 2014, 07:14:18 pm »
Quote from: Altair;140888
We can decide that, whatever one's personal beliefs, if one is running a business open to the public, it has to serve the public. That providing services to someone else doesn't necessarily constitute an endorsement of them or their ways. To just get on with the business of doing business and living our lives.


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What I have never been able to understand is how religious conservatives take the Freedom of Religion (to practice in one's religious building and private home) to mean the Freedom to Shove My Religion Down Everyone's Throat. To me, a religion's domain does not extend beyond a church parking lot. They should be happy they're not in a Diocletian purging and keep their religion inside their churches, in my opinion.

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Re: Arizona legislature passes bill allowing anti-gay discrimination
« Reply #70 on: March 02, 2014, 07:45:59 am »
Quote from: Materialist;141329
What I have never been able to understand is how religious conservatives take the Freedom of Religion (to practice in one's religious building and private home) to mean the Freedom to Shove My Religion Down Everyone's Throat.

The ones who think that way tend to believe that their religion REQUIRES them to force their religious beliefs on everyone else by any means necessary. Therefore, since their religion requires it, freedom of religion (in their opinion) is being violated every time they are prevented from doing so.
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Materialist

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Re: Arizona legislature passes bill allowing anti-gay discrimination
« Reply #71 on: March 09, 2014, 11:40:05 am »
Quote from: Altair;141090

 It's fascinating how the politics of this has played out.


And it continues to play out. Just got a copy of the Chicago Tribune (March 9th), and a columnist has his own take on business owners discriminating against gays.

"A database solution to the clash between religious and gay rights," Eric Zorn, Section 1, page 18. First he talks about Elaine and Jonathan Heguenin, who lost a court case when they discriminated against a lesbian couple requesting their photography services.

Though he agrees with the court's decision, he asks "...why they [the lesbian couple] wanted disapproving photographers among the celebrants." My understanding was that they didn't know the photographers were prejudiced until after they tried to hire them. Does anyone know this for certain?

Anyway, next he wonders if gays and religious business owners can reach a compromise and mentions an idea from Dan Savage, for the construction of an online database of gay-friendly and gay-hating wedding services, so that gays can know who to avoid, so that religious people won't have to "compromise their beliefs."

But I don't know; in the past, "we don't serve your kind here" notices haven't worked well. I remember reading somewhere about a hair salon that put up a note on its door saying they would no longer take African-Americans, which created an uproar. I think, even putting up a message in cyberspace, when a community learns that some of its businesses discriminate, that it's going to blow up in everyone's faces.

sailor

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Re: Arizona legislature passes bill allowing anti-gay discrimination
« Reply #72 on: March 09, 2014, 03:05:52 pm »
Quote from: Materialist;142033


But I don't know; in the past, "we don't serve your kind here" notices haven't worked well. I remember reading somewhere about a hair salon that put up a note on its door saying they would no longer take African-Americans, which created an uproar. I think, even putting up a message in cyberspace, when a community learns that some of its businesses discriminate, that it's going to blow up in everyone's faces.

 
"Creating an uproar" isn't in my mind "haven't worked well".  Not worked well is the Black family sleeping in their car during a cross country trip pre-CRA when all the hotels in a town won't accept Blacks.

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