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Author Topic: Traditional Offering Resources  (Read 2262 times)

Devo

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Traditional Offering Resources
« on: January 19, 2012, 11:28:50 pm »
Hey all,

Do any of you know of any good resources (print or online) that cite things that were traditionally offered in AE? I've seen a lot of generic stuff, but nothing that gets really 'deep' into what was offered regularly. So I was hoping that maybe someone here would know where I could look for more info.

Thanks!

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Darkhawk

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Re: Traditional Offering Resources
« Reply #1 on: January 20, 2012, 08:23:52 pm »
Quote from: Devo;39530


 
Temple Calendars of Ancient Egypt has offering lists for daily and specific festival stuff for surviving temple knowledge.  I can go through and dig up some comments on same when I'm not under the baby.
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SatAset

Re: Traditional Offering Resources
« Reply #2 on: January 21, 2012, 10:11:50 am »
Quote from: Devo;39530
Hey all,

Do any of you know of any good resources (print or online) that cite things that were traditionally offered in AE? I've seen a lot of generic stuff, but nothing that gets really 'deep' into what was offered regularly. So I was hoping that maybe someone here would know where I could look for more info.

Thanks!

-Devo


Ancient Gods Speak by Donald Redford has an article on offerings and lists a bunch of meats, vegetables etc for offerings that were used in temples.  I'd also recommend the book Darkhawk mentioned.
I am the Goddess of Who I can Become. I mix the magic of the sorceress with the blade of a warrior. I walk the liminal pathways to see the face of the Goddess, both terrible and kind. As She stares back at me, I tremble in awe and ecstasy.  --SatAset

Darkhawk

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Re: Traditional Offering Resources
« Reply #3 on: January 21, 2012, 10:52:46 am »
Quote from: Darkhawk;39653
Temple Calendars of Ancient Egypt has offering lists for daily and specific festival stuff for surviving temple knowledge.  I can go through and dig up some comments on same when I'm not under the baby.

 
I will just run through Medinet Habu because it's a) nearly complete and b) the one I opened to at random.

Section titled 'Additions to daily temple offerings' contains:
bit-bread, both emmer and barley
psn-bread
sweet white bread
white bread
offering bread
great bread
dw cakes
shtt bread
idn cakes
qw cakes of white bread
ds-jars of beer
bit-cakes
date cakes
various grains
wine, very good quality
wine, decorated jars(?)
ro-geese
waterfowl
ordinary fowl
long-horned cattle
incense in sticks
baskets of incense
incense by weight
baskets of fruit
pyramidion qw cakes
sweetmeats cakes
milk in jugs
baskets of vegetables
bundles of vegetables
fresh flowers in bouquets
fresh flowers in baskets
charcoal

Most of these offerings repeat as the major substance of each specific festival.  Other things that I see scanning through quickly:
flour (barley, wheat, fruit, bb3t)
grain of various types (barley, "white", fresh)
biscuits
a variety of additional types of breads, cakes, buns, and so on; since we aren't clear on what most of these are, I suspect "anything from the bakery" is a potentially decent match!  Some are shaped like animals ("biscuits in a lion shape").
long-horned oxen, bulls, short-horned cattle, calves
fattened geese, live ro geese, trp, srt, and s3t geese
pigeons
other qualities of wine
set meals
grapes, figs, dh fruit, zizyphus fruit, isd fruit
honey in bowls and jars
meat in bowls
strings of onions
moringa oil
papyrus (sheets, rolls, and plants)
wood for heating
charcoal for cooking
oryxes, gazelles (probably "wild game", functionally)
salt
natron
greens
baskets of onions, leeks
necklaces (faience)

I am pleased, incidentally, both by "tasty bread" and "bread of presence" in this translation.  Also that the Feast of Chewing Onions for Bast does not have onions - or vegetables of any kind - listed in the offering list.
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Devo

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Re: Traditional Offering Resources
« Reply #4 on: January 21, 2012, 12:05:02 pm »
Quote from: Darkhawk;39751
I will just run through Medinet Habu because it's a) nearly complete and b) the one I opened to at random.

 
Thank you guys for the book sources, I'll see if I can look into them further.

And thank you for the list, Darkhawk. That's very helpful :3

Can I say that I loled over the thought of cakes shaped like animals? Do you think that they served a specific purpose- shaping them like that? I can imagine the fun I could have shaping baked goods into various naughty and nice shapes :)

Thanks again!

-Devo
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Darkhawk

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Re: Traditional Offering Resources
« Reply #5 on: January 21, 2012, 01:14:30 pm »
Quote from: Devo;39757
Can I say that I loled over the thought of cakes shaped like animals? Do you think that they served a specific purpose- shaping them like that? I can imagine the fun I could have shaping baked goods into various naughty and nice shapes :)

 
I think the animal-shape ones were translated as "biscuits", but I'm again away from my library.  But even so, yes, they clearly had some sort of purpose.  I think they were all powerful animals - I remember lion and hawk.
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SatSekhem

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Re: Traditional Offering Resources
« Reply #6 on: January 21, 2012, 01:45:13 pm »
Quote from: Devo;39757
Thank you guys for the book sources, I'll see if I can look into them further.

And thank you for the list, Darkhawk. That's very helpful :3

Can I say that I loled over the thought of cakes shaped like animals? Do you think that they served a specific purpose- shaping them like that? I can imagine the fun I could have shaping baked goods into various naughty and nice shapes :)

Thanks again!

-Devo

 
So... would shaping one like a penis be an okay offering for harvest time? :ange:
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Darkhawk

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Re: Traditional Offering Resources
« Reply #7 on: January 21, 2012, 02:02:37 pm »
Quote from: SatSekhem;39766
So... would shaping one like a penis be an okay offering for harvest time? :ange:

 
Sounds like a Mysteries of Wesir offering. ;)
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Nyktipolos

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Re: Traditional Offering Resources
« Reply #8 on: January 21, 2012, 08:14:27 pm »
Quote from: Darkhawk;39751
Also that the Feast of Chewing Onions for Bast does not have onions - or vegetables of any kind - listed in the offering list.

 
Really? :confused: Can I ask what is listed?
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Darkhawk

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Re: Traditional Offering Resources
« Reply #9 on: January 21, 2012, 08:17:48 pm »
Quote from: Nyktipolos;39820
Really? :confused: Can I ask what is listed?

 
Mostly bread, IIRC.  Not near the book right now.
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Helmsman_of_Inepu

Re: Traditional Offering Resources
« Reply #10 on: February 09, 2012, 02:36:45 pm »
Quote from: Darkhawk;39751
Section titled 'Additions to daily temple offerings' contains:...

 
Have you (or anyone else) seen any ancient references to offering blood to Sekhmet? I'm thinking of responding to the following:

Quote
I see it with a certain group of Wiccans who want to worship Sekhmet but refuse to allow blood, alcohol or weapons in Her sanctuary…..despite the fact that Alcohol is traditionally Her sacred libation and She is a war Goddess all about blood and weapons.


Alcohol, sure. Though I have heard people UPG "She is still mad about the Red Beer thing, so don't give her alcohol."

Leaving aside the "don't do a ritual if you're menstruating" business, is there even the slightest hint of blood as an actual offering to Sekhmet?

To me, it sounds a bit like giving dung to Khepri. Because he's a dung beetle. :p
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Darkhawk

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Re: Traditional Offering Resources
« Reply #11 on: February 09, 2012, 02:46:54 pm »
Quote from: Helmsman_of_Inepu;42122
Have you (or anyone else) seen any ancient references to offering blood to Sekhmet?

 
The only thing I've encountered is the notion that one should be extra-special-careful about blood around Sekhmet, lest Her bloodlust reawaken.

I doubt there would be any such resources; my understanding is that no animals were ever sacrificed in sanctuary area - a temple slaughterhouse was in the least sanctified portion of the temple grounds, and afterwards the plated meat was presented inside.  (I think I saw someone making a passing reference to blood as taboo, perhaps suggesting something similar to kosher laws' exsanguination policies, but I have no idea what basis that person was using for that statement.)
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Aine Rayne

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Re: Traditional Offering Resources
« Reply #12 on: April 04, 2012, 02:07:06 pm »
Quote from: Darkhawk;39751

so is it safe to assume that they would like toast?
« Last Edit: April 04, 2012, 07:41:19 pm by SunflowerP »
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Darkhawk

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Re: Traditional Offering Resources
« Reply #13 on: April 04, 2012, 03:07:25 pm »
Quote from: Aine Rayne;48829
so is it safe to assume that they would like toast?

 
I would say yes. :)
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SatSekhem

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Re: Traditional Offering Resources
« Reply #14 on: April 04, 2012, 11:40:07 pm »
Quote from: Helmsman_of_Inepu;42122
Leaving aside the "don't do a ritual if you're menstruating" business, is there even the slightest hint of blood as an actual offering to Sekhmet?

 
Sigh. Sigh. Sigh.

I "give" blood to Sekhmet on a regular basis. No, I'm not talking about shoving a needle in my finger and dripping blood on her sacred space. I donate blood in her name. To me, it's the same as "giving" blood to her. I really don't like the negative associations with her because she really is a goddess of multiple facets.

So, I guess it really depends on your interpretation of what I do.
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