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Author Topic: Titles of respect  (Read 2692 times)

Snowdrop

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Titles of respect
« on: December 23, 2012, 03:36:36 pm »
When I address the gods (of any of my pantheons), I often address them as Lord/Lady, since those are pretty good generally applicable terms of respect in English.  I also speak a little Norwegian and a little German, so I'll occasionally also use Herr/Fru/Frøken or Herr/Frau.  

What I'm wondering however is if there are equivalent Kemetic titles that perhaps the Kemetic gods would prefer (or would also like), and if so, what those are.

Shine

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Re: Titles of respect
« Reply #1 on: December 23, 2012, 04:50:08 pm »
Quote from: Snowdrop;86445
What I'm wondering however is if there are equivalent Kemetic titles that perhaps the Kemetic gods would prefer (or would also like), and if so, what those are.

 
I think there's lord and lady (neb and nebet), but if I'm remembering correctly, these were usually used in epithets, not the names proper. You can think of the epithets as titles of their own, if you want. It's not uncommon to read off lists of them in ancient hymns.

That's not to say you can't use neb or nebet, of course, if it works.

UPG moment here: I used to refer to m'lady as Lady Bast. Soon, I got the impression of, "nice sentiment. Now quit it." As a side note, I only say "m'lady" outside of shrine and never when I'm trying to communicate with Bast. ;)
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Sage

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Re: Titles of respect
« Reply #2 on: December 23, 2012, 09:01:51 pm »
Quote from: Shine;86457
I think there's lord and lady (neb and nebet)

 
...which is why Nebet-Het is Lady of the House and Het-Heret is the House of Heru oh my god I get it now.
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Nyktelios

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Re: Titles of respect
« Reply #3 on: December 23, 2012, 09:20:49 pm »
Quote from: Snowdrop;86445
When I address the gods (of any of my pantheons), I often address them as Lord/Lady, since those are pretty good generally applicable terms of respect in English.


I do the same thing, and another one I use is "mistress" (for female deities, obviously).

Snowdrop

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Re: Titles of respect
« Reply #4 on: December 23, 2012, 10:31:20 pm »
Quote from: Carnelian;86497
I do the same thing, and another one I use is "mistress" (for female deities, obviously).

 
That has a nice ring to it, too.  I'll have to try that one . . . I can somewhat see Bast-Mut liking "mistress."

Helmsman_of_Inepu

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Re: Titles of respect
« Reply #5 on: December 24, 2012, 11:37:57 am »
Quote from: Snowdrop;86511
That has a nice ring to it, too.  I'll have to try that one . . . I can somewhat see Bast-Mut liking "mistress."


I just use them as part of an epithet, like "Mistress of Myrrh"
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Devo

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Re: Titles of respect
« Reply #6 on: December 26, 2012, 08:39:06 pm »
Quote from: Snowdrop;86445
When I address the gods (of any of my pantheons), I often address them as Lord/Lady, since those are pretty good generally applicable terms of respect in English.  I also speak a little Norwegian and a little German, so I'll occasionally also use Herr/Fru/Frøken or Herr/Frau.  

What I'm wondering however is if there are equivalent Kemetic titles that perhaps the Kemetic gods would prefer (or would also like), and if so, what those are.

 
Sometimes, when Set and I are in serious mode, I use "sir".

Epithets are technically the best way to go. If I'm not mistaken, Rundle Clark states that epithets were almost always what was used in antiquity. That saying the actual name (Osiris, Bast, Aset, etc) was too powerful to be used just any ol time. So epithets were almost always used instead of the actual name. YMMV, but it's something to consider, at least.

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Shine

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Re: Titles of respect
« Reply #7 on: December 26, 2012, 09:03:27 pm »
Quote from: Devo;86942
Epithets are technically the best way to go. If I'm not mistaken, Rundle Clark states that epithets were almost always what was used in antiquity. That saying the actual name (Osiris, Bast, Aset, etc) was too powerful to be used just any ol time. So epithets were almost always used instead of the actual name. YMMV, but it's something to consider, at least.

-Devo

 
I've read that, too. And also, one can observe from reading ancient hymns that the titles of respect were those epithets. :) Epithets are an expression of the Netjeru's powers, domains, etc.

It's kind of odd that modern practice leans more toward using the actual names than the epithets. I would guess it's because moderns generally have a different relationship toward words, and names are considered some of the more powerful words. It brings to mind the saying, "give things the dignity of their names."

In Kemetic thought, if I'm not mistaken names are considered pretty powerful as well. Each name has its own reverberation with its own "energy signature". Some ancient cultures seemed to try to avoid calling upon the more powerful signatures directly--ie: signatures of the gods.
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Helmsman_of_Inepu

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Re: Titles of respect
« Reply #8 on: December 27, 2012, 10:58:53 am »
Quote from: Shine;86950
In Kemetic thought, if I'm not mistaken names are considered pretty powerful as well. Each name has its own reverberation with its own "energy signature". Some ancient cultures seemed to try to avoid calling upon the more powerful signatures directly--ie: signatures of the gods.

 
And there's the thought that the names we know are all epithets as well. Hwt-Hrw (Hathor) = "House of Horus" Wepwawet = "Opener of the Way" etc. etc.
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Shine

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Re: Titles of respect
« Reply #9 on: December 27, 2012, 12:05:11 pm »
Quote from: Helmsman_of_Inepu;87087
And there's the thought that the names we know are all epithets as well. Hwt-Hrw (Hathor) = "House of Horus" Wepwawet = "Opener of the Way" etc. etc.

 
In Daily Life of the Egyptian Gods (Meeks & Meeks), I remember there being a part about how the Netjeru have many, many names. They have a "true" name, too, which they try to keep hidden, because if someone--mortal or not--gains knowledge of that name, s/he gains power over the Netjer in question.

So it's interesting that the names for the Netjeru that we find more or less accurate/"true" are at heart epithets. Sounds like they were super successful at keeping us mortals away from the actual true name. ;)
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Nyktipolos

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Re: Titles of respect
« Reply #10 on: December 27, 2012, 03:25:17 pm »
Quote from: Helmsman_of_Inepu;87087
And there's the thought that the names we know are all epithets as well. Hwt-Hrw (Hathor) = "House of Horus" Wepwawet = "Opener of the Way" etc. etc.

 
Opener of the Ways. I'm not trying to be pedantic here. I just want to point out that he is a god who can open *all* the ways, not just one of them. :)
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Bezenwepwy

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Re: Titles of respect
« Reply #11 on: December 27, 2012, 03:38:45 pm »
Quote from: Nyktipolos;87125
Opener of the Ways. I'm not trying to be pedantic here. I just want to point out that he is a god who can open *all* the ways, not just one of them. :)

 
Can I be genuinely pedantic and state that sometimes his name does have an abbreviated spelling which amounts to 'Wepwat'? ;) (Mainly Ptolemaic or later from what I've observed.)
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Nyktipolos

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Re: Titles of respect
« Reply #12 on: December 27, 2012, 03:42:38 pm »
Quote from: Bezenwepwy;87127
Can I be genuinely pedantic and state that sometimes his name does have an abbreviated spelling which amounts to 'Wepwat'? ;) (Mainly Ptolemaic or later from what I've observed.)

You may. :p

So, does "Wepwat" mean "Opener of the Way"? I'm not familiar with ancient Egyptian grammar.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2012, 03:43:09 pm by Nyktipolos »
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Bezenwepwy

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Re: Titles of respect
« Reply #13 on: December 29, 2012, 01:43:43 pm »
Quote from: Nyktipolos;87128
So, does "Wepwat" mean "Opener of the Way"? I'm not familiar with ancient Egyptian grammar.

 
Yes, it does. But AFAIK, it is just an abbreviated spelling. (Which isn't to say that one day I won't check to see if it correlates to context.)
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veggiewolf

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Titles of respect
« Reply #14 on: December 30, 2012, 10:53:35 am »
Quote from: Shine;86457
...

I use Neb - specifically, Neb.y - when addressing Set.  Then again, we have a relationship where my use of "My Lord" is completely appropriate.
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