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Author Topic: Refering to the Gods as Mom and Dad?  (Read 6910 times)

Auress

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Refering to the Gods as Mom and Dad?
« on: July 21, 2011, 09:53:40 pm »
I've read the HON before off and on, and one thing I can't quite get right with in my head is referring to the Gods as "Mom" or "Dad". Does anyone here do this, too? I haven't seen it anywhere else but the HON, so I'm curious. I would tend to see myself, in any relationship to any God, as a servant and not kin or an offspring so I'm very curious about this. Any info is appreciated!

Firaza

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Re: Refering to the Gods as Mom and Dad?
« Reply #1 on: July 21, 2011, 10:11:01 pm »
Quote from: Vermillion;6982
I've read the HON before off and on, and one thing I can't quite get right with in my head is referring to the Gods as "Mom" or "Dad". Does anyone here do this, too? I haven't seen it anywhere else but the HON, so I'm curious. I would tend to see myself, in any relationship to any God, as a servant and not kin or an offspring so I'm very curious about this. Any info is appreciated!

 
Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but from what I've gathered, certain HoN members have "parent" deities divined for them by Rev. Siuda. I assume that's why you've seen some of them call their Patrons "Mom" or "Dad."

I do refer to Anpu as "Father" sometimes because that's one of the roles He fills in my life, not because I think He created my ka or anything.

Nehet

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Re: Refering to the Gods as Mom and Dad?
« Reply #2 on: July 21, 2011, 11:29:28 pm »
Quote from: Vermillion;6982
I've read the HON before off and on, and one thing I can't quite get right with in my head is referring to the Gods as "Mom" or "Dad". Does anyone here do this, too?


I think it's fairly universal that some people see their Gods as parental figures.  Nebet-Het has shown up as being very motherly toward me.  I don't call her "mom", just because I'm usually not that informal.  However,  I don't have a problem with people calling Gods Mom/Dad if they feel that's an accurate description of their relationship.  

Quote from: Vermillion;6982
I haven't seen it anywhere else but the HON, so I'm curious. I would tend to see myself, in any relationship to any God, as a servant and not kin or an offspring so I'm very curious about this. Any info is appreciated!


That's more like how I relate to Ausir.  I have a close relationship with Him, but it's a qualitatively different sort of closeness.  

Calling him "Dad" doesn't quite seem to to fit. Of course, I have a rather complex relationship with my Dad, to put it lightly :ashamed:.  Viewing a beloved Deity in such terms is not easy for me.  But that's my personal issue and has nothing to do with what is/is not appropriate.  

If you look at Hornung "The One and the Many" page 45 there is a bunch of examples of Kemetic names that say something about how people viewed the Gods.  Unfortunately the Cauldron doesn't have the right punctuation marks for phonetic translations but you'll get the idea.

Jndw Ntr - Whom the God saves
Jht Ntr - Property of the God. I guess the modern idea of "belonging" go a God isn't so modern.
Bnr(t) Ntr - Sweet one of the God
Mrj Ntr - whom the God loves.  We see this all the time with modern Kemetics calling themselves Mery(t) Netjer.  FX:  Mery Het-Heru would mean "beloved of Het-Heru"
Sjm Ntr- the one who gladdens the heart of the God.
Sdj Ntr - whom the God rears.  Like "who the God raises".  Also translated as "suckles".   Obviously, parental relationship.   We also get a lot of Kemetics choosing a name "Sa(t) Ntr", son/daughter of a God.  

So, yeah.  Parents, beloveds, masters who we serve...all these sorts of relationships are pretty much par for the course.

These aren't static, either.  Relationships change and evolve over time, and a God may fill different roles for the same person at different times.
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Nehet

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Re: Refering to the Gods as Mom and Dad?
« Reply #3 on: July 21, 2011, 11:34:27 pm »
Quote from: Firaza;6983
Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but from what I've gathered, certain HoN members have "parent" deities divined for them by Rev. Siuda. I assume that's why you've seen some of them call their Patrons "Mom" or "Dad."

 
You're correct.  HoN members have "parent" and "beloved" Deities.  They determine somebody's parents/beloveds based on divination.  This is, as far as I know, specific to that tradition.  

I suspect the popularity of people calling themselves son/daughter or beloved of a God may come from HoN.  It's a nice sentiment, however, whether you're a member or not.  :)
See, life is but a movement of eternal return.  Even Trees fall ~ Berlin papyrus 3024, (A man tired of life).

Live, Ausir, for all time and all eternity! Ankh Neheh Djet!

Firaza

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Re: Refering to the Gods as Mom and Dad?
« Reply #4 on: July 22, 2011, 01:43:09 am »
Quote from: Nehet;6994
It's a nice sentiment, however, whether you're a member or not.  :)

 
Oh yes, I definitely agree.

Helmsman_of_Inepu

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Re: Refering to the Gods as Mom and Dad?
« Reply #5 on: July 22, 2011, 08:05:17 am »
Quote from: Vermillion;6982
I've read the HON before off and on, and one thing I can't quite get right with in my head is referring to the Gods as "Mom" or "Dad". Does anyone here do this, too? I haven't seen it anywhere else but the HON, so I'm curious. I would tend to see myself, in any relationship to any God, as a servant and not kin or an offspring so I'm very curious about this. Any info is appreciated!

 
It has spread beyond HoN. And it's not universal within the group either. I think some of it is just a chat and board shorthand because it's a lot quicker to type "mom" than "my divined parental Name Kebechet". Some of the members do seem to have an informal relationship, others most definitely do not but still use the term. Others don't use it at all. An unfortunate side effect of it can be that you get the impression someone is a bit fluffy. Then they will say something brilliant and you have to adjust your perspective.

I would be hesitant to use mom or dad, even as a shorthand, because I'd feel like it stamps out all the majesty and awe.

I don't want to hijack the thread into yet another dissection of the RPD, but one of the things I've seen Tamara say is that in their pre-RPD days everyone was latching onto the most familiar deities, Bast and Yinepu, and that the RPD gave the group a much more balanced pantheon. I think that's also reflected in the statement that Bast and Yinepu bring people into the faith, then sometimes step into the background. According to the Wiki on the group, it was originally known as the "House of Bast"!
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Auress

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Re: Refering to the Gods as Mom and Dad?
« Reply #6 on: July 22, 2011, 08:25:30 am »
Quote from: Helmsman_of_Inepu;7057
It has spread beyond HoN.



Thanks for the input, guys! That clears up a couple of the questions I had at the same time.

Interesting, that you mention people latching onto the most familiar deities. It seems to me that's pretty common when it comes to polytheism. Or at least that's the idea I get.

While trying to find UPG and formal information on Serquet (who I've been drawn to for quite some time), I've found it's harder to find than say Sekhmet is.

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Re: Refering to the Gods as Mom and Dad?
« Reply #7 on: July 22, 2011, 10:48:19 am »
Quote from: Vermillion;6982
I've read the HON before off and on, and one thing I can't quite get right with in my head is referring to the Gods as "Mom" or "Dad". Does anyone here do this, too?

 
I refer to Hetharu occasionally as Mum.  That is in many ways Her role in my life, and a major part of the example She sets for me.  It derives in part from HON's innovations, in its way, but that isn't why it stuck.

I would note that referring to deities parentally is far from being Kemetic-exclusive.  Heck, one of the members of my Theological Debugging Council refers to Herne as "Dad".
as the water grinds the stone
we rise and fall
as our ashes turn to dust
we shine like stars    - Covenant, "Bullet"

Shefyt

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Re: Refering to the Gods as Mom and Dad?
« Reply #8 on: July 22, 2011, 10:55:07 am »
Quote from: Nehet;6993
I think it's fairly universal that some people see their Gods as parental figures.  Nebet-Het has shown up as being very motherly toward me.  I don't call her "mom", just because I'm usually not that informal.  However,  I don't have a problem with people calling Gods Mom/Dad if they feel that's an accurate description of their relationship.

 
With Bast, I run the formality gamut from "my Mother" to "Mom" to the very intimate "Mama" (which I only use when it's just Her and me, not in general conversation). I tend to skew formal or intimate, but Bast doesn't seem to mind the occasional "Mom."

Ha, I just remembered--one time I was in need of solace and I called upon Her. I was standing on a bridge, and suddenly...it's hard to describe, but I felt this connection with the magic that particular stream had held for me when I was younger, and with it came this overpowering rush of joy. And then I happened to look down, and on the railing of the bridge someone had written in gold pen, "your Mom."

Thanks, Mom. ;)

--Shefyt
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I have done no damage to a beautiful hour.
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Nehet

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Re: Refering to the Gods as Mom and Dad?
« Reply #9 on: July 22, 2011, 11:53:37 am »
Quote from: Shefyt;7099
And then I happened to look down, and on the railing of the bridge someone had written in gold pen, "your Mom."

Thanks, Mom. ;)

--Shefyt


Which was probably intended as one of those "your mom" jokes.  Isn't it funny the type of stuff the Gods use to speak to us? If they really want to get a point accross, they'll use anything  ;)
See, life is but a movement of eternal return.  Even Trees fall ~ Berlin papyrus 3024, (A man tired of life).

Live, Ausir, for all time and all eternity! Ankh Neheh Djet!

Shefyt

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Re: Refering to the Gods as Mom and Dad?
« Reply #10 on: July 22, 2011, 12:08:58 pm »
Quote from: Nehet;7112
Which was probably intended as one of those "your mom" jokes.  Isn't it funny the type of stuff the Gods use to speak to us? If they really want to get a point accross, they'll use anything  ;)

 

Yeah, I figured as much (especially considering the bridge was right next to a school), but it was just so perfectly appropriate in context, it blew me away. :)

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I have done no damage to a beautiful hour.
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acidrica

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Re: Refering to the Gods as Mom and Dad?
« Reply #11 on: July 26, 2011, 05:52:33 pm »
Quote from: Vermillion;6982
I've read the HON before off and on, and one thing I can't quite get right with in my head is referring to the Gods as "Mom" or "Dad". Does anyone here do this, too? I haven't seen it anywhere else but the HON, so I'm curious. I would tend to see myself, in any relationship to any God, as a servant and not kin or an offspring so I'm very curious about this. Any info is appreciated!


I'll refer to Yinepu as either Dad or Father, but mostly Father. It just...fits the relationship we have. I am his, but it's not strictly a master/servant relationship. I personally don't think it cheapens the awe or anything, but then again, I'm not calling him 'Daddy' or 'Papa'. I feel Dad or Father is respectful, while still conveying the somewhat close relationship we have.

From what I remember hearing somewhere, Hemet(AUS) never meant for the RPD to show what deity made your Ka or Ba, but that it was said by someone in saq once that that was what it meant, and it spread from there.

Etheric1

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Re: Refering to the Gods as Mom and Dad?
« Reply #12 on: July 27, 2011, 12:17:05 am »
Quote from: Vermillion;6982
I've read the HON before off and on, and one thing I can't quite get right with in my head is referring to the Gods as "Mom" or "Dad". Does anyone here do this, too? I haven't seen it anywhere else but the HON, so I'm curious. I would tend to see myself, in any relationship to any God, as a servant and not kin or an offspring so I'm very curious about this. Any info is appreciated!

 
I'm with you on this.  I have a bit of an issue with referring to them as I would a parent.  For me that just doesn't seem quite right.  Perhaps over time this may change and evolve.  With both Set and Anpu I gravitate toward master, but not in the sense that I'm an indentured servant or anything.  Master is more of a term I use for someone that I regard with a lot of respect and is there to help me develop and is evolved more than I.

 With the title Mom or Dad, that to me is something I reserve for my birth parents and sharing that title I see as somewhat disrespectful to them.  But that's just me.
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SatAset

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Re: Refering to the Gods as Mom and Dad?
« Reply #13 on: July 27, 2011, 03:04:06 am »
Quote from: Vermillion;6982
I've read the HON before off and on, and one thing I can't quite get right with in my head is referring to the Gods as "Mom" or "Dad". Does anyone here do this, too? I haven't seen it anywhere else but the HON, so I'm curious. I would tend to see myself, in any relationship to any God, as a servant and not kin or an offspring so I'm very curious about this. Any info is appreciated!


In many ancient hymns and prayers the deities are referred to as Mother and Father or even both (*looks at Nit and Khnum*).  As one creation story dictates, we are children of the gods.  Humans were created from either Ra or the Eye of Ra's tears (which came about out of either joy or rage, depending on the myth).  

As for myself, I have referred to Aset as Mother and she was called such in antiquity.  I have a parent/child relationship with my goddess.  She has reinforced this with more than one personal experience.  

This isn't seen as a physical parentage, but a spiritual one.  For me, this is like saying this deity made me, made my essence and the core of my being.  This is who I am as I walk through the world. Aset is whose essence I most resonate with, whose energy I most connect with on a very profound and fundamental level.  I am having trouble putting this into words.
I am the Goddess of Who I can Become. I mix the magic of the sorceress with the blade of a warrior. I walk the liminal pathways to see the face of the Goddess, both terrible and kind. As She stares back at me, I tremble in awe and ecstasy.  --SatAset

Helmsman_of_Inepu

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Re: Refering to the Gods as Mom and Dad?
« Reply #14 on: July 27, 2011, 07:57:37 am »
Quote from: SatAset;8587
In many ancient hymns and prayers the deities are referred to as Mother and Father or even both (*looks at Nit and Khnum*).

 
I think the informality of "Mom" and "Dad" is what strikes people. We're an extremely informal society. Even comparing our speech with how people addressed each other a hundred years ago. At least I haven't seen people saying "Meemaw Nut" very much. :p

yet. :eek:
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