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Author Topic: What is the Reality of Science?  (Read 6985 times)

Cabal

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Re: What is the Reality of Science?
« Reply #15 on: February 28, 2013, 06:17:42 pm »
Quote from: RandallS;98992
Perhaps he wants to see how many people will agree with him. I'm afraid he will not find many here -- for any of the threads I've seen him start. Oh well, perhaps he'll have better luck on some of those other boards.

 
Yeah not going to get an agreement here. Science is how I make my living.
"In Hell, everybody loves popcorn."

Rhyshadow

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Re: What is the Reality of Science?
« Reply #16 on: February 28, 2013, 06:33:44 pm »
Quote from: Cryfder;99006
Yeah not going to get an agreement here. Science is how I make my living.

 
I may be a wrench-turner now, but my abortive college education (Thank you Carter for cutting student grants) was Aquatic Biology major, Organic Chem minor - I'm also an amateur astronomer, read dad's physics texts for fun (he's got a Masters in Nuclear Physics) and mom's medical texts for the same reason.

Science has pervaded my life for almost fifty years now - Science investigates, examines, questions and in the end explains things

Science also gave us this lovely Internet where we can express ourselves

Sorry, Science is needed and by quite a number of us, loved as well

Fireof9

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Re: What is the Reality of Science?
« Reply #17 on: March 01, 2013, 12:58:04 am »
Quote from: pantodragon;98895
What is science?  Is it the best way to find out about the world we live in?  Is it the honest pursuit of knowledge?

The Faust legend is the truth about science: Faust sold his soul to the Devil for the sake of gaining all the knowledge in the world.  To be a scientist is to sell your soul to the Devil for the sake of knowledge.  This obviously requires a bit of explanation.

As a human being one is equipped with all sorts of senses that allow one to interact with the world, to ‘communicate’ with the world and everything in it.  The most obvious are the five senses that interact with the ‘real’ world: sight, hearing, touch, taste and smell.  These are the easy ones, the undeniable, obvious ones.  But there are far more, the subtle ones, the ones that see below the surface of things, detect that which is not ‘present’ to the basic five senses, and these are the feelings, intuition and what one might call ‘sensations’.

Take, for example, feelings.  Suppose one is talking to someone and one becomes angry but there is no apparent reason for the anger.  If one confesses to the anger one would be called grumpy, or classed as an angry person, as though it is all just a matter of personality.  But this is not so.  Anger happens for a reason.  If you get angry talking to someone it is because they are doing something bad to you, even though you cannot see what that is.  

People can act a part, and that act can be very convincing, but you cannot fool the feelings.  So, someone might sound very pleasant, even charming, but they might well be trying to use their charm to manipulate others emotionally, to get attention, or to get them to do things for them.  This is where one’s feelings tell one that something is amiss, because your feeling detect INTENTION, they ‘see’ below the surface and sense what other people are REALLY about.

Then there is intuition.  Intuition is far more than just a ‘gut’ feeling.  Intuitions are the outcome of one’s subconscious ‘thinking’, the sophisticated type of thinking that is way beyond anything that computers can, or ever will, be able to do.  Intuition collects all one’s experiences, all one has learned from books or any other source, it listens to one’s ‘heart’ and collects the wisdom of dreams, it sees and understands what the feelings are saying, and from all that, in a flash, with a speed that would shame any computer, it tells one how to react in any situation; or it might deliver a flash of understanding or insight.  There is nothing more powerful than intuition.

Then there is one’s heart.  This is about the things one cares about and it is about likes and dislikes.  These are the things that make a person who they are.  They express one’s spirit.  There is an expression, ‘to become dispirited’, which means to lose interest in life, to lose motivation, to become depressed.  This is very accurate: if you do not pay heed to your spirit, do not nurture it, then you WILL lose interest in life.  And paying heed to your spirit means following your ‘heart’, in means allowing your own likes and dislikes, and your own special interest to lead you at all times.  That means that instead of following fashion, you develop your own tastes, whether it be in clothes, interior decoration, choice of interests or whatever.  You must ignore all advertising.  You must ignore all peer pressure.  You must listen only to your own heart.

If you ignore your heart then, apart from denying your own spirit, you also deny your own ‘destiny’.  Your destiny is about your dreams.  If as a child, or young person, you have a dream or ambition, (it can be anything, but it must come from the heart, so, e.g. dreaming of becoming a ‘star’ is not a ‘real’ dream, because it is not ‘from the heart’ – these sorts of ambitions are about competition and power, and have nothing to do with the heart.); so, if you have a dream, it is the ‘job’ of ‘fate’ to see to it that your dream comes true.  This means that fate has to plot a course through life that will give you all the experiences and learning opportunities that will enable you to achieve your dream.  If you follow your heart then you will actually be following the path fate has laid out for you, and you will finally realise your dreams.  If you do not follow your heart, then you will not achieve your dreams.

So, in the first place, there is a great deal more in the ‘world’ than scientific instruments can detect, and, in the second place, the ‘heartlessness’ of science denies the human spirit.  This is Faust: science will gain you knowledge, but in order to gain the knowledge of science you have to ignore your own heart and spirit, and that amounts to selling your soul.  But the legend goes further: it is to The Devil that Faust sells his soul.  This is because the source of all good is also in the heart and spirit.  It is the heart and spirit that tell you what is good and what is bad, what is right and what is wrong, and, what’s more, if you follow the heart and spirit, then there is no conflict with other people – you will never find that what is good for you is bad for someone else.  Existence is wonderfully designed such that THERE IS NO CONFLICT.   The problems we encounter, the conflicts of interest, arise because people do NOT listen to their hearts and spirits.  So to deny the heart and spirit is to lose touch with right and wrong.  It is to lose that which knows what is good, and that is why it was the Devil to whom Faust sold his soul.

So science is totally inadequate as a means of dealing with the world, it cannot achieve real understanding or insight, it does not know what life is about, and it cannot tell right from wrong.

 
Ya know panta, can I call you that or do you prefer dragon or perhaps PD?

I am so happy you signed up here. Here I have been reading and learning form these people for the last 5 or 6 years and it turns out that none of them know anything at all. Thank God ( the right one of course) that you came along. Here I was getting all mixed up in that evil witchcraft and confused about science and my soul.

I have to warn you though. Folks here might ridicule you a bit. SOmetimes these threads turn to such silliness, folks start posting about unicorns, MLP, mermaids and stuff like that. If they are feeling particularly sick and twisted they start posting stuff out of actual textbooks and historical studies. THey know no mercy. But I have faith in your message.........
Really?  So, hey, want to go fishing?  I\'ve got a telescope, and it\'s going to be a dark night, so we should see the fish really well.
...what, I\'m not talking about fishing?  That\'s stargazing?  It\'s all doing-stuff, so it\'s the same thing, right?
-HeartShadow
 
Yesterday is history, Tomorrow is a mystery,Today is a gift,thats why the call it the present - Master Oogway

Finding the Owl -my blog
The Gwyddonic Order

Valentine

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Re: What is the Reality of Science?
« Reply #18 on: March 01, 2013, 01:29:44 am »
Quote from: Fireof9;99025
Ya know panta, can I call you that or do you prefer dragon or perhaps PD?

I am so happy you signed up here. Here I have been reading and learning form these people for the last 5 or 6 years and it turns out that none of them know anything at all. Thank God ( the right one of course) that you came along. Here I was getting all mixed up in that evil witchcraft and confused about science and my soul.

I have to warn you though. Folks here might ridicule you a bit. SOmetimes these threads turn to such silliness, folks start posting about unicorns, MLP, mermaids and stuff like that. If they are feeling particularly sick and twisted they start posting stuff out of actual textbooks and historical studies. THey know no mercy. But I have faith in your message.........

 
Water is the essence of wetness, and wetness is the essence of beauty.  Can science tell you that?
"Let be be finale of seem." - Wallace Stevens, "The Emperor of Ice-Cream"
"There isn't a way things should be.  There's just what happens, and what we do."
- Terry Pratchett, "A Hat Full of Sky"

Valentine

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Re: What is the Reality of Science?
« Reply #19 on: March 01, 2013, 03:56:48 am »
Quote from: pantodragon;98895
What is science?  Is it the best way to find out about the world we live in?  Is it the honest pursuit of knowledge?

The Faust legend is the truth about science: Faust sold his soul to the Devil for the sake of gaining all the knowledge in the world.  To be a scientist is to sell your soul to the Devil for the sake of knowledge.  This obviously requires a bit of explanation.

As a human being one is equipped with all sorts of senses that allow one to interact with the world, to ‘communicate’ with the world and everything in it.  The most obvious are the five senses that interact with the ‘real’ world: sight, hearing, touch, taste and smell.  These are the easy ones, the undeniable, obvious ones.  But there are far more, the subtle ones, the ones that see below the surface of things, detect that which is not ‘present’ to the basic five senses, and these are the feelings, intuition and what one might call ‘sensations’.

Take, for example, feelings.  Suppose one is talking to someone and one becomes angry but there is no apparent reason for the anger.  If one confesses to the anger one would be called grumpy, or classed as an angry person, as though it is all just a matter of personality.  But this is not so.  Anger happens for a reason.  If you get angry talking to someone it is because they are doing something bad to you, even though you cannot see what that is.  

People can act a part, and that act can be very convincing, but you cannot fool the feelings.  So, someone might sound very pleasant, even charming, but they might well be trying to use their charm to manipulate others emotionally, to get attention, or to get them to do things for them.  This is where one’s feelings tell one that something is amiss, because your feeling detect INTENTION, they ‘see’ below the surface and sense what other people are REALLY about.

Then there is intuition.  Intuition is far more than just a ‘gut’ feeling.  Intuitions are the outcome of one’s subconscious ‘thinking’, the sophisticated type of thinking that is way beyond anything that computers can, or ever will, be able to do.  Intuition collects all one’s experiences, all one has learned from books or any other source, it listens to one’s ‘heart’ and collects the wisdom of dreams, it sees and understands what the feelings are saying, and from all that, in a flash, with a speed that would shame any computer, it tells one how to react in any situation; or it might deliver a flash of understanding or insight.  There is nothing more powerful than intuition.

Then there is one’s heart.  This is about the things one cares about and it is about likes and dislikes.  These are the things that make a person who they are.  They express one’s spirit.  There is an expression, ‘to become dispirited’, which means to lose interest in life, to lose motivation, to become depressed.  This is very accurate: if you do not pay heed to your spirit, do not nurture it, then you WILL lose interest in life.  And paying heed to your spirit means following your ‘heart’, in means allowing your own likes and dislikes, and your own special interest to lead you at all times.  That means that instead of following fashion, you develop your own tastes, whether it be in clothes, interior decoration, choice of interests or whatever.  You must ignore all advertising.  You must ignore all peer pressure.  You must listen only to your own heart.

If you ignore your heart then, apart from denying your own spirit, you also deny your own ‘destiny’.  Your destiny is about your dreams.  If as a child, or young person, you have a dream or ambition, (it can be anything, but it must come from the heart, so, e.g. dreaming of becoming a ‘star’ is not a ‘real’ dream, because it is not ‘from the heart’ – these sorts of ambitions are about competition and power, and have nothing to do with the heart.); so, if you have a dream, it is the ‘job’ of ‘fate’ to see to it that your dream comes true.  This means that fate has to plot a course through life that will give you all the experiences and learning opportunities that will enable you to achieve your dream.  If you follow your heart then you will actually be following the path fate has laid out for you, and you will finally realise your dreams.  If you do not follow your heart, then you will not achieve your dreams.

So, in the first place, there is a great deal more in the ‘world’ than scientific instruments can detect, and, in the second place, the ‘heartlessness’ of science denies the human spirit.  This is Faust: science will gain you knowledge, but in order to gain the knowledge of science you have to ignore your own heart and spirit, and that amounts to selling your soul.  But the legend goes further: it is to The Devil that Faust sells his soul.  This is because the source of all good is also in the heart and spirit.  It is the heart and spirit that tell you what is good and what is bad, what is right and what is wrong, and, what’s more, if you follow the heart and spirit, then there is no conflict with other people – you will never find that what is good for you is bad for someone else.  Existence is wonderfully designed such that THERE IS NO CONFLICT.   The problems we encounter, the conflicts of interest, arise because people do NOT listen to their hearts and spirits.  So to deny the heart and spirit is to lose touch with right and wrong.  It is to lose that which knows what is good, and that is why it was the Devil to whom Faust sold his soul.

So science is totally inadequate as a means of dealing with the world, it cannot achieve real understanding or insight, it does not know what life is about, and it cannot tell right from wrong.

 
...is this all because they called you mad at the academy?  Fools.  I'm sure you'll show them all!
"Let be be finale of seem." - Wallace Stevens, "The Emperor of Ice-Cream"
"There isn't a way things should be.  There's just what happens, and what we do."
- Terry Pratchett, "A Hat Full of Sky"

Fireof9

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Re: What is the Reality of Science?
« Reply #20 on: March 01, 2013, 08:42:51 am »
Quote from: Valentine;99027
Water is the essence of wetness, and wetness is the essence of beauty.  Can science tell you that?

 
Dammit. Just when I thought I had found my great guru with PD there, you come along and post something like that and turn my world upside down again;)

I guess you're my Guru now...........
Really?  So, hey, want to go fishing?  I\'ve got a telescope, and it\'s going to be a dark night, so we should see the fish really well.
...what, I\'m not talking about fishing?  That\'s stargazing?  It\'s all doing-stuff, so it\'s the same thing, right?
-HeartShadow
 
Yesterday is history, Tomorrow is a mystery,Today is a gift,thats why the call it the present - Master Oogway

Finding the Owl -my blog
The Gwyddonic Order

Sage

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Re: What is the Reality of Science?
« Reply #21 on: March 01, 2013, 09:21:41 am »
Quote from: Valentine;99027
Water is the essence of wetness, and wetness is the essence of beauty.  Can science tell you that?

 
Yes. Yes it can!
Maker, though the darkness comes upon me,
I shall embrace the light. I shall weather the storm.
I shall endure.
What you have created, no one can tear asunder.

-Canticle of Trials 1:10

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Join the Emboatening Crew over on Kiva! Emboatening the boatless since Opet 2013.

pantodragon

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Re: What is the Reality of Science?
« Reply #22 on: March 02, 2013, 11:52:51 am »
Quote from: yewberry;98923
I'll counter with my own question:

What is the point of posting the same/same sort of screed, seemingly randomly, all over the Interwebz?

Brina

ETA:  You do realize you don't have to use the same screen name on every message board, right?  Mix it up, have fun!

 
You have an obsession with the fact that you have found my posts elsewhere.  If it is not against forum rules, then there is no problem.  I do not feel any obligation to explain myself to you, particularly to some one who expresses such hostilityn towards me.

Sage

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Re: What is the Reality of Science?
« Reply #23 on: March 02, 2013, 11:55:43 am »
Quote from: pantodragon;99196
You have an obsession with the fact that you have found my posts elsewhere.  If it is not against forum rules, then there is no problem.  I do not feel any obligation to explain myself to you, particularly to some one who expresses such hostilityn towards me.

 
*hostility
Maker, though the darkness comes upon me,
I shall embrace the light. I shall weather the storm.
I shall endure.
What you have created, no one can tear asunder.

-Canticle of Trials 1:10

Sage and Starshine (my spiritual blog): last updated 2/25.
Friday Otherfaith Blogging: last updated 2/27
Join the Emboatening Crew over on Kiva! Emboatening the boatless since Opet 2013.

yewberry

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Re: What is the Reality of Science?
« Reply #24 on: March 02, 2013, 12:06:48 pm »
Quote from: Sage;99198
*hostility


Nope, hostilityn.  It's a hormone I release that enrages trolls.  It explains the current display.

Brina

Fireof9

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Re: What is the Reality of Science?
« Reply #25 on: March 02, 2013, 12:57:04 pm »
Quote from: yewberry;99207
Nope, hostilityn.  It's a hormone I release that enrages trolls.  It explains the current display.

Brina


Is that your mutant power then?

*sigh* I wish I could have extra hormones or sumpin.....
Really?  So, hey, want to go fishing?  I\'ve got a telescope, and it\'s going to be a dark night, so we should see the fish really well.
...what, I\'m not talking about fishing?  That\'s stargazing?  It\'s all doing-stuff, so it\'s the same thing, right?
-HeartShadow
 
Yesterday is history, Tomorrow is a mystery,Today is a gift,thats why the call it the present - Master Oogway

Finding the Owl -my blog
The Gwyddonic Order

Altair

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Re: What is the Reality of Science?
« Reply #26 on: March 02, 2013, 01:15:07 pm »
Quote from: pantodragon;98895
What is science?

A means of exploring the universe we live in that yields reproducible results.

Quote
Is it the best way to find out about the world we live in?

It's one of the better ways.

Quote
Is it the honest pursuit of knowledge?

Yes. Which is not to say that scientists don't make mistakes, but that's the beauty of science; it's not a fixed body of learning. It's a process that leads to revised conclusions as better data become available.

Quote
Suppose one is talking to someone and one becomes angry but there is no apparent reason for the anger.

I'd suggest mood stabilizers.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2013, 01:16:27 pm by Altair »
The first song sets the wheel in motion / The second is a song of love / The third song tells of Her devotion / The fourth cries joy from the sky above
The fifth song binds our fate to silence / and bids us live each moment well / The sixth unleashes rage and violence / The seventh song has truth to tell
The last song echoes through the ages / to ask its question all night long / And close the circle on these pages / These, the metamythos songs

Valentine

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Re: What is the Reality of Science?
« Reply #27 on: March 02, 2013, 05:26:41 pm »
Quote from: Fireof9;99227
Is that your mutant power then?

*sigh* I wish I could have extra hormones or sumpin.....

 
I know some very reputable doctors I could recommend.
"Let be be finale of seem." - Wallace Stevens, "The Emperor of Ice-Cream"
"There isn't a way things should be.  There's just what happens, and what we do."
- Terry Pratchett, "A Hat Full of Sky"

Fireof9

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Re: What is the Reality of Science?
« Reply #28 on: March 02, 2013, 05:52:24 pm »
Quote from: Valentine;99316
I know some very reputable doctors I could recommend.

 
Not sure if Canadian Medical would cover that though....
Really?  So, hey, want to go fishing?  I\'ve got a telescope, and it\'s going to be a dark night, so we should see the fish really well.
...what, I\'m not talking about fishing?  That\'s stargazing?  It\'s all doing-stuff, so it\'s the same thing, right?
-HeartShadow
 
Yesterday is history, Tomorrow is a mystery,Today is a gift,thats why the call it the present - Master Oogway

Finding the Owl -my blog
The Gwyddonic Order

mandrina

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Re: What is the Reality of Science?
« Reply #29 on: March 03, 2013, 04:33:28 pm »
Quote from: Fireof9;99317
Not sure if Canadian Medical would cover that though....

 
well, if you could convince them you needed hormone therapy. . . . . .
Katrina

"I have a bad feeling about this."  Every good guy in the Star Wars saga, and an occasional bad guy as well.

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