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Author Topic: Please send energy out to stop the 1867 bill and the internet censorship bill.  (Read 1769 times)

DerickVonD

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These bills will not only strip our freedom, but in the 1867 bill it states that the government can send military troops to anyone's house without evidence, with out any charges made and it would take away due process. This would give the government the ability to hold you in jail for as long as they want. It even states that they can kill you and no charges can be filed against them. If you don't believe me you can look it up for yourselves.

monsnoleedra

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Quote from: DerickVonD;33457
These bills will not only strip our freedom, but in the 1867 bill it states that the government can send military troops to anyone's house without evidence, with out any charges made and it would take away due process. This would give the government the ability to hold you in jail for as long as they want. It even states that they can kill you and no charges can be filed against them. If you don't believe me you can look it up for yourselves.

 


Perhaps one should actually read the thing first..

15 Subtitle D—Detainee Matters
16 SEC. 1031. AFFIRMATION OF AUTHORITY OF THE ARMED
17 FORCES OF THE UNITED STATES TO DETAIN
18 COVERED PERSONS PURSUANT TO THE AU19
THORIZATION FOR USE OF MILITARY FORCE.
20 (a) IN GENERAL.—Congress affirms that the author21
ity of the President to use all necessary and appropriate
22 force pursuant to the Authorization for Use of Military
23 Force (Public Law 107–40) includes the authority for the
24 Armed Forces of the United States to detain covered per427
† S 1867 ES
1 sons (as defined in subsection (b)) pending disposition
2 under the law of war.
3 (b) COVERED PERSONS.—A covered person under
4 this section is any person as follows:
5 (1) A person who planned, authorized, com6
mitted, or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred
7 on September 11, 2001, or harbored those respon8
sible for those attacks.
9 (2) A person who was a part of or substantially
10 supported al-Qaeda, the Taliban, or associated forces
11 that are engaged in hostilities against the United
12 States or its coalition partners, including any person
13 who has committed a belligerent act or has directly
14 supported such hostilities in aid of such enemy
15 forces.
16 (c) DISPOSITION UNDER LAW OF WAR.—The dis17
position of a person under the law of war as described
18 in subsection (a) may include the following:
19 (1) Detention under the law of war without
20 trial until the end of the hostilities authorized by the
21 Authorization for Use of Military Force.
22 (2) Trial under chapter 47A of title 10, United
23 States Code (as amended by the Military Commis24
sions Act of 2009 (title XVIII of Public Law 111–
25 84)).
428
† S 1867 ES
1 (3) Transfer for trial by an alternative court or
2 competent tribunal having lawful jurisdiction.
3 (4) Transfer to the custody or control of the
4 person’s country of origin, any other foreign coun5
try, or any other foreign entity.
6 (d) CONSTRUCTION.—Nothing in this section is in7
tended to limit or expand the authority of the President
8 or the scope of the Authorization for Use of Military
9 Force.
10 (e) AUTHORITIES.—Nothing in this section shall be
11 construed to affect existing law or authorities, relating to
12 the detention of United States citizens, lawful resident
13 aliens of the United States or any other persons who are
14 captured or arrested in the United States.
15 (f) REQUIREMENT FOR BRIEFINGS OF CONGRESS.—
16 The Secretary of Defense shall regularly brief Congress
17 regarding the application of the authority described in this
18 section, including the organizations, entities, and individ19
uals considered to be ‘‘covered persons’’ for purposes of
20 subsection (b)(2).
21 SEC. 1032. REQUIREMENT FOR MILITARY CUSTODY.
22 (a) CUSTODY PENDING DISPOSITION UNDER LAW OF
23 WAR.—
24 (1) IN GENERAL.—Except as provided in para25
graph (4), the Armed Forces of the United States
429
† S 1867 ES
1 shall hold a person described in paragraph (2) who
2 is captured in the course of hostilities authorized by
3 the Authorization for Use of Military Force (Public
4 Law 107–40) in military custody pending disposition
5 under the law of war.
6 (2) COVERED PERSONS.—The requirement in
7 paragraph (1) shall apply to any person whose de8
tention is authorized under section 1031 who is de9
termined—
10 (A) to be a member of, or part of, al-
11 Qaeda or an associated force that acts in co12
ordination with or pursuant to the direction of
13 al-Qaeda; and
14 (B) to have participated in the course of
15 planning or carrying out an attack or attempted
16 attack against the United States or its coalition
17 partners.
18 (3) DISPOSITION UNDER LAW OF WAR.—For
19 purposes of this subsection, the disposition of a per20
son under the law of war has the meaning given in
21 section 1031(c), except that no transfer otherwise
22 described in paragraph (4) of that section shall be
23 made unless consistent with the requirements of sec24
tion 1033.
430
† S 1867 ES
1 (4) WAIVER FOR NATIONAL SECURITY.—The
2 Secretary of Defense may, in consultation with the
3 Secretary of State and the Director of National In4
telligence, waive the requirement of paragraph (1) if
5 the Secretary submits to Congress a certification in
6 writing that such a waiver is in the national security
7 interests of the United States.
8 (b) APPLICABILITY TO UNITED STATES CITIZENS
9 AND LAWFUL RESIDENT ALIENS.—
10 (1) UNITED STATES CITIZENS.—The require11
ment to detain a person in military custody under
12 this section does not extend to citizens of the United
13 States.
14 (2) LAWFUL RESIDENT ALIENS.—The require15
ment to detain a person in military custody under
16 this section does not extend to a lawful resident
17 alien of the United States on the basis of conduct
18 taking place within the United States, except to the
19 extent permitted by the Constitution of the United
20 States.
21 (c) IMPLEMENTATION PROCEDURES.—
22 (1) IN GENERAL.—Not later than 60 days after
23 the date of the enactment of this Act, the President
24 shall issue, and submit to Congress, procedures for
25 implementing this section.
431
† S 1867 ES
1 (2) ELEMENTS.—The procedures for imple2
menting this section shall include, but not be limited
3 to, procedures as follows:
4 (A) Procedures designating the persons au5
thorized to make determinations under sub6
section (a)(2) and the process by which such
7 determinations are to be made.
8 (B) Procedures providing that the require9
ment for military custody under subsection
10 (a)(1) does not require the interruption of ongo11
ing surveillance or intelligence gathering with
12 regard to persons not already in the custody or
13 control of the United States.
14 (C) Procedures providing that a determina15
tion under subsection (a)(2) is not required to
16 be implemented until after the conclusion of an
17 interrogation session which is ongoing at the
18 time the determination is made and does not
19 require the interruption of any such ongoing
20 session.
21 (D) Procedures providing that the require22
ment for military custody under subsection
23 (a)(1) does not apply when intelligence, law en24
forcement, or other government officials of the
25 United States are granted access to an indi432
† S 1867 ES
1 vidual who remains in the custody of a third
2 country.
3 (E) Procedures providing that a certifi4
cation of national security interests under sub5
section (a)(4) may be granted for the purpose
6 of transferring a covered person from a third
7 country if such a transfer is in the interest of
8 the United States and could not otherwise be
9 accomplished.
10 (d) EFFECTIVE DATE.—This section shall take effect
11 on the date that is 60 days after the date of the enactment
12 of this Act, and shall apply with respect to persons de13
scribed in subsection (a)(2) who are taken into the custody
14 or brought under the control of the United States on or
15 after that effective date.

http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/BILLS-112s1867es/pdf/BILLS-112s1867es.pdf

mandrina

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Quote from: monsnoleedra;33458
Perhaps one should actually read the thing first..


9 (2) A person who was a part of or substantially
10 supported al-Qaeda, the Taliban, or associated forces
11 that are engaged in hostilities against the United
12 States or its coalition partners, including any person
13 who has committed a belligerent act or has directly
14 supported such hostilities in aid of such enemy
15 forces.


http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/BILLS-112s1867es/pdf/BILLS-112s1867es.pdf

 

what's the definition of substantially supported?
Katrina

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Tamina

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Quote from: monsnoleedra;33458
Perhaps one should actually read the thing first..

5 (1) A person who planned, authorized, com6
mitted, or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred
7 on September 11, 2001, or harbored those respon8
sible for those attacks.
9 (2) A person who was a part of or substantially
10 supported al-Qaeda, the Taliban, or associated forces
11 that are engaged in hostilities against the United
12 States or its coalition partners, including any person
13 who has committed a belligerent act or has directly
14 supported such hostilities in aid of such enemy
15 forces.

http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/BILLS-112s1867es/pdf/BILLS-112s1867es.pdf

 
What kind of proof do they need of these actions? Unless they're laid out in the bill itself, it seems to me that it's pretty much a 'because someone under heavy interrogation said so' instead of proof.

It doens't really have anything to do with that though because the voters are going to be split into two camps: those willing to throw away basic human rights to assure our saftey and those who aren't.

Nyktipolos

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Quote from: mandrina;33469
what's the definition of substantially supported?

This is the major point I'm seeing where the issue is coming up. They're saying it won't target American citizens, but really if you look like you could be a terrorist or helping a terrorist (i.e. non-white, most likely if you look Middle Eastern, even if you are not actually Middle Eastern) you could be at risk.

Quite frankly, I don't believe them a damn bit that it won't target American citizens.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2011, 11:58:59 am by Nyktipolos »
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Tamina

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Quote from: Nyktipolos;33504
This is the major point I'm seeing where the issue is coming up. They're saying it won't target American citizens, but really if you look like you could be a terrorist or helping a terrorist (i.e. non-white, most likely if you look Middle Eastern, even if you are not actually Middle Eastern) you could be at risk.

Quite frankly, I don't believe them a damn bit that it won't target American citizens.

 
Yeah. What about that blue eyed blond haired woman from a few years ago?
Jihad Jane.

Nyktipolos

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Quote from: Tamina;33526
Yeah. What about that blue eyed blond haired woman from a few years ago?
Jihad Jane.

 
Of course, she chooses an Islamic/Muslim label: "Jihad" Jane. It's taking an aspect of Islam that is not inherently war-like or evil and giving it those connotations, appropriating from a culture that she thinks represents her twisted views.

Faaaaantastic.
"Though my soul may set in darkness, it will rise in perfect light;
I have loved the stars too fondly to be fearful of the night." - Sarah Williams
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sailor

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Quote from: DerickVonD;33457
These bills will not only strip our freedom, but in the 1867 bill it states that the government can send military troops to anyone's house without evidence, with out any charges made and it would take away due process. This would give the government the ability to hold you in jail for as long as they want. It even states that they can kill you and no charges can be filed against them. If you don't believe me you can look it up for yourselves.

 
This basically codifies what the Supreme Court has already ruled on in Hamdi, Quinn and international treaties that the US has signed.

Asch

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Quote from: Nyktipolos;33863
Of course, she chooses an Islamic/Muslim label: "Jihad" Jane. It's taking an aspect of Islam that is not inherently war-like or evil and giving it those connotations, appropriating from a culture that she thinks represents her twisted views.

Faaaaantastic.

 
Did she self-apply that name or did the press name her? (not that either is better)

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