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Author Topic: The First Debate: Clinton vs. Trump, round 1  (Read 5810 times)

Castus

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Re: The First Debate: Clinton vs. Trump, round 1
« Reply #15 on: September 26, 2016, 11:24:01 pm »
Quote from: MadZealot;196743
Do you likewise hope he'll change between no and 11/8?  By Jan 2017?  Over the next 3-8 years of his term(s)?  Because it's his 'refreshing' approach that's gotten him where he is.  

Were you maybe hoping he'd morph back to his pro-gressive, pro-choice, pro-Hillary self, circa 2008?

 
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Jack

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Re: The First Debate: Clinton vs. Trump, round 1
« Reply #16 on: September 26, 2016, 11:24:51 pm »
Quote from: MadZealot;196746
3) Why isn't Gary Johnson on the stage?

Because he's polling less than the 15% required?

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Castus

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Re: The First Debate: Clinton vs. Trump, round 1
« Reply #17 on: September 26, 2016, 11:30:32 pm »
Quote from: Jack;196749
Because he's polling less than the 15% required?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

 
Tbh even if he were polling at 60% he shouldn't be allowed to debate until someone tells him what Aleppo is.

MadZealot

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Re: The First Debate: Clinton vs. Trump, round 1
« Reply #18 on: September 26, 2016, 11:47:02 pm »
Quote from: Jack;196749
Because he's polling less than the 15% required?


But he is on the ballot in all 50 states.  And a couple of polls had him at 13% but also reported a 2-3% MoE.
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MadZealot

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Re: The First Debate: Clinton vs. Trump, round 1
« Reply #19 on: September 26, 2016, 11:51:15 pm »
Quote from: Castus;196751
Tbh even if he were polling at 60% he shouldn't be allowed to debate until someone tells him what Aleppo is.

 
An honest, and imo forgivable, gaffe.  
Tbh, I'd take "what is Aleppo" over "bleeding out of her whatever" any goddamn day.
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Castus

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Re: The First Debate: Clinton vs. Trump, round 1
« Reply #20 on: September 26, 2016, 11:56:10 pm »
Quote from: MadZealot;196754
An honest, and imo forgivable, gaffe.  
Tbh, I'd take "what is Aleppo" over "bleeding out of her whatever" any goddamn day.

*shrugs*

I find Johnson's gaffe to be indicative of a broader lack of foreign policy knowledge, even at it's most basic, which I do not prefer over a mere poor choice of phrase.

MadZealot

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Re: The First Debate: Clinton vs. Trump, round 1
« Reply #21 on: September 27, 2016, 12:22:46 am »
Quote from: Castus;196755
*shrugs*

I find Johnson's gaffe to be indicative of a broader lack of foreign policy knowledge, even at it's most basic, which I do not prefer over a mere poor choice of phrase.


So you prefer blatantly misogynistic poorly chosen phrasing over an easily remedied lack of being informed?  That's interesting.

At least Johnson admitted his error and said "I have to get smarter."  That's an expression of humility, something the big two generally lack.

Also, I'd lay money that most folks who howled over Johnson's fuckup had to google Aleppo for themselves.  And maybe needed a little help finding Syria on a map.
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Jack

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Re: The First Debate: Clinton vs. Trump, round 1
« Reply #22 on: September 27, 2016, 01:40:50 am »
Quote from: MadZealot;196753
But he is on the ballot in all 50 states.  And a couple of polls had him at 13% but also reported a 2-3% MoE.

 
Don't look at me, my state has two different socialist parties on the presidential ballot too. ;P

Would the goal for the party in putting him in the debate just be the popularizing of the Libertarian platform? Do you think he'd stand out more in contrast to Clinton or Trump?
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MadZealot

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Re: The First Debate: Clinton vs. Trump, round 1
« Reply #23 on: September 27, 2016, 03:09:08 am »
Quote from: Jack;196758
Would the goal for the party in putting him in the debate just be the popularizing of the Libertarian platform? Do you think he'd stand out more in contrast to Clinton or Trump?


Popularizing, sure, but that's what coverage and exposure are supposed to do, and the LP needs to popularize their ideas if they want to be viable... ever.  This has been the year for 'outsider' contenders, and 2020 doesn't promise the same opportunity.

I think Johnson differs enough from Clinton and Trump, which is what got him noticed.  He's criticized Hillary's foreign policy as well as Trump's stance on immigration.  He describes himself as "fiscally conservative and socially don't-give-a-damn."  
I've also heard Libertarians deride him for not being "Libertarian enough."  So there's that.
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MadZealot

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Re: The First Debate: Clinton vs. Trump, round 1
« Reply #24 on: September 27, 2016, 03:20:14 am »
Quote from: MadZealot;196759
So there's that.

 
Throwing up this image showing results of a few who-won-it polls.  
(Using off-site linkage because the image is rather large.)

I'm sure Altair will have more when he wakes up.
Spider Man 3 never happened. And Epstein didn't kill himself.

Darkhawk

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Re: The First Debate: Clinton vs. Trump, round 1
« Reply #25 on: September 27, 2016, 09:31:50 am »
Quote from: Castus;196755
I find Johnson's gaffe to be indicative of a broader lack of foreign policy knowledge, even at it's most basic, which I do not prefer over a mere poor choice of phrase.

 
In that case, I prefer "What is Aleppo" to "Europe is a big place. I’m not going to take cards off the table. We have nuclear capability." or, for that matter, "I’m speaking with myself [about foreign policy], number one, because I have a very good brain and I’ve said a lot of things."
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Tom

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Re: The First Debate: Clinton vs. Trump, round 1
« Reply #26 on: September 27, 2016, 10:11:05 am »
Quote from: MadZealot;196759
Popularizing, sure, but that's what coverage and exposure are supposed to do, and the LP needs to popularize their ideas if they want to be viable... ever.  This has been the year for 'outsider' contenders, and 2020 doesn't promise the same opportunity.

I think Johnson differs enough from Clinton and Trump, which is what got him noticed.  He's criticized Hillary's foreign policy as well as Trump's stance on immigration.  He describes himself as "fiscally conservative and socially don't-give-a-damn."  
I've also heard Libertarians deride him for not being "Libertarian enough."  So there's that.

 
I don't trust anyone who considers themselves "fiscally conservative" to care about social issues enough to suite me. Fiscally conservative means they want the poor to suffer because they don't want to fund welfare or other safety-net programs because they subscribe to the pull yourself up by your bootstraps philosophy.

Frankly, as there's no viable socialist candidate and unlikely to be one until the USA gets over it's fear of socialism in any form, I'm going to stick with Hillary. I'm sick of "fiscally conservative" people ruining this country.

MeadowRae

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Re: The First Debate: Clinton vs. Trump, round 1
« Reply #27 on: September 27, 2016, 10:25:01 am »
Quote from: Altair;196643
Just leaving this here so it's ready for us to all wail and scream in tomorrow night. What are your predictions? And how epic, or not (and/or important, or not) do you think this is going to be?


So, Hillary was definitely the winner there. No surprises. I'm not saying that because I'm happy with the outcome, either. With the exception of Obama, who, regardless of how you feel about him personally, truly came outta nowhere in the 2008 election, there hasn't been a president that wasn't a Bush or a Clinton since before I was born. The only shocking thing was that Obama made it first.

Hillary was always going to be president. This is purely entertainment for the American public. I didn't think they could make it any more obvious than Palin, but Trump? McCain may have had a shot had it not been for her. Seniors in a high school journalism class could have presented better. Trump is even worse, somehow. This can't be real.
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Darkhawk

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Re: The First Debate: Clinton vs. Trump, round 1
« Reply #28 on: September 27, 2016, 10:26:30 am »
Quote from: Tom;196770
I don't trust anyone who considers themselves "fiscally conservative" to care about social issues enough to suite me. Fiscally conservative means they want the poor to suffer because they don't want to fund welfare or other safety-net programs because they subscribe to the pull yourself up by your bootstraps philosophy.

Frankly, as there's no viable socialist candidate and unlikely to be one until the USA gets over it's fear of socialism in any form, I'm going to stick with Hillary. I'm sick of "fiscally conservative" people ruining this country.

 
The terminology is so fucked, really.  Because a lot of stuff that gets flagged as "fiscally conservative" is flagrantly financially irresponsible, and stuff that actually makes fiscal sense, especially in the long term, is opposed on fiscal grounds.

Like, I heard about a program that sent nurses on home visits for teen mothers.  And this thing had huge numbers of observed by study effects: not just the obvious stuff like reducing infant mortality and maternal health, or the 'we'd hope it'd do that' stuff like reducing the subsequent teen pregnancy rate for those mothers, but things like improving long-term educational outcomes for mother and child, reducing crime rate for mother and child, reducng the child's teen pregnancy rate, improving those people's long term financial prospects, and so on.

It seems to me that a genuine conservatism (financial or otherwise) would look at that and say, "That works.  That promotes improved health, reduced crime, better productivity, and it basically pays for itself in reducing those additional costs.  It's tested, it's functional, it does what it says it's going to do, and what it's going to do is good for individuals and society.  It builds healthy communities.  Let's do it."

And it doesn't work that way, and I genuinely don't understand why, except that "conservative" is used as some sort of talisman for things that don't have anything much to do with stablity, continuity, or tradition.
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Re: The First Debate: Clinton vs. Trump, round 1
« Reply #29 on: September 27, 2016, 01:44:09 pm »
Quote from: MadZealot;196760
Throwing up this image showing results of a few who-won-it polls.  
(Using off-site linkage because the image is rather large.)

I'm sure Altair will have more when he wakes up.


Interesting results, considering that--like Trump himself--they're at odds with reality. Methinks some Trumpbots were busy last night, esp. since the debate was barely over before Trump started trumpeting how well he'd done by saying, "just look at the polling!"
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