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Author Topic: “See You in Valhalla” Posts Mosque Shooter  (Read 2172 times)

Zlote Jablko

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“See You in Valhalla” Posts Mosque Shooter
« on: March 16, 2019, 10:43:17 pm »
Unsurprisingly, at least one of Christchurch shooters had dreams of going to Valhalla. At this point, I would bet they’ve either discovered Hel, or they’ve discovered nothingness. It looks like more white supremacists with a fascination for what they call “European culture.”

It presents an interesting and terrifying case of extremist views bred online. One of these men considered himself an eco-fascist, which is typically associated with the far left. Yet there was a streak of conservativism in their yearning for a pre-industrial, pre-globalist past. It hurts to see some of my most cherished beliefs twisted in this way. Environmentalism. Anti-Imperialism. European Paganism. A revitalization of Western Culture. So much of it sounds good, but it’s all tarnished by the fascism and white supremacy. It makes me wonder, can we control neopaganism? Or is it a platform just waiting to be hijacked? It seems like a lightning rod for the far left and far right, and even some individuals who appear influenced by both.

I’ve always tried to take a middle path with respect to modern globalism, adopting the motto “progress with continuity.” Yet maybe that approach is too nuanced for many. Is there something inherently dangerous about European paganism?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.newsweek.com/8chan-christchurch-shooting-new-zealand-brenton-tarrant-what-8chan-4chan-1364129%3famp=1

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Re: “See You in Valhalla” Posts Mosque Shooter
« Reply #1 on: March 17, 2019, 07:04:21 pm »
One of these men considered himself an eco-fascist, which is typically associated with the far left. Yet there was a streak of conservativism in their yearning for a pre-industrial, pre-globalist past.

Citation needed on the part I bolded. Seems to me it's more that 'eco-fascist' is typically used as a pejorative against people who have more extreme eco views than the speaker, and that eco-anything is more typically associated with the left. Have you any examples of far-left groups or individuals who identify themselves as eco-fascists? The self-identifications of that sort that I've seen have all been from people who are far right but into environmentalism.

There's a streak of that particular sort of 'conservatism' in a great many (but not all) environmentalist positions. I think part of the problem here is a communication problem - it's incredibly hard to talk about things that don't map onto a one-dimensional (right-wing/conservative/authoritarian/etc) <--> (left-wing/progressive/liberal/etc) map, when that's the only map in common use. Increasingly, though, it seems to me that not only is that map not the territory, it isn't a useful description of any currently-existing political territory. (Left/right is still a historical map of the seating arrangement in the French Estates General, of course ;).)

Quote
Is there something inherently dangerous about European paganism?

No more so than there's something inherently dangerous about pretty much any human institution. The hate-promoters will use ANYTHING; what you're seeing isn't a vulnerability unique to, or more common in, paganism, but simply that paganism doesn't have any more immunity than anything else.

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Zlote Jablko

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Re: “See You in Valhalla” Posts Mosque Shooter
« Reply #2 on: March 17, 2019, 10:24:29 pm »
Citation needed on the part I bolded. Seems to me it's more that 'eco-fascist' is typically used as a pejorative against people who have more extreme eco views than the speaker, and that eco-anything is more typically associated with the left. Have you any examples of far-left groups or individuals who identify themselves as eco-fascists? The self-identifications of that sort that I've seen have all been from people who are far right but into environmentalism.

Fair point. In my experience, most self-described fascists embrace the characterization of fascism as a right-wing phenomenon, despite most conservatives trying to exclude them.

Many radical environmentalists may embrace more authoritarian approaches to solving environmental problems, but those who consider themselves left-wing would rarely call it “fascism.” It’s kind of a war of labels. Even I would potentially support something along the lines of eco-dirigisme or treating climate change as a national emergency. I do worry that failure to act on environmental issues within democratic nations will eventually give rise to a kind of green authoritarianism. In such a case, it’s hard to imagine that some followers would not be drawn from the left. These shooters are a pretty solid example of horseshoe theory, in my opinion.

arete

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Re: “See You in Valhalla” Posts Mosque Shooter
« Reply #3 on: March 18, 2019, 07:11:47 am »
Unsurprisingly, at least one of Christchurch shooters had dreams of going to Valhalla. At this point, I would bet they’ve either discovered Hel, or they’ve discovered nothingness.
You said it right. Murderers don't go to Valhalla. I think they've discovered nothingness. There isn't a religion that accepts murderers.

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Re: “See You in Valhalla” Posts Mosque Shooter
« Reply #4 on: March 20, 2019, 07:26:57 pm »
Many radical environmentalists may embrace more authoritarian approaches to solving environmental problems, but those who consider themselves left-wing would rarely call it “fascism.” It’s kind of a war of labels. Even I would potentially support something along the lines of eco-dirigisme or treating climate change as a national emergency. I do worry that failure to act on environmental issues within democratic nations will eventually give rise to a kind of green authoritarianism. In such a case, it’s hard to imagine that some followers would not be drawn from the left. These shooters are a pretty solid example of horseshoe theory, in my opinion.

Well, that's what I meant about the inadequacy of the one-dimensional map. Horseshoe theory is, IMO, mainly an artifact of people trying to cram a vast array of not-inherently-related positions, that would be more accurately represented if each had its own axis (or, to avoid the confusion of working with too many dimensions, at any rate making use of more than one dimension), all onto a single axis.

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Mellee

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Re: “See You in Valhalla” Posts Mosque Shooter
« Reply #5 on: March 25, 2019, 10:22:41 pm »
Unsurprisingly, at least one of Christchurch shooters had dreams of going to Valhalla. At this point, I would bet they’ve either discovered Hel, or they’ve discovered nothingness. It looks like more white supremacists with a fascination for what they call “European culture.”

There was one shooter, and he's discovered jail.

White supremacist troll a-holes like this guy co-opt whatever terminology they want, and half the time it is intended ironically. I haven't read his manifesto, because I refuse to tolerate hate speech and now it's banned here (an excellent use of the Chief Censor's power), but from all accounts, his use of the term valhalla has nothing to do with Norse paganism and everything to do with trying to be one of the cool kids.

Even the one AFA-affiliated kindred in NZ has expressed disgust with his actions and motivations.

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Re: “See You in Valhalla” Posts Mosque Shooter
« Reply #6 on: July 08, 2019, 07:31:30 pm »
You said it right. Murderers don't go to Valhalla. I think they've discovered nothingness. There isn't a religion that accepts murderers.

So any religion past or present whose gods or culture inspires in its people a path of conquest, glory in battle, fights for survival, death, etc anything that involves killing... is from your perspective not accepting of murderers?

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