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Author Topic: SCOTUS: 5th Amendment must be invoked & silence CAN be used against you  (Read 1923 times)

MadZealot

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"In a 5-4 decision the Supreme Court ruled today that a potential defendant’s silence can be used against him if he is being interviewed by police but is not arrested (and read his Miranda rights) and has not verbally invoked the protection of the Fifth Amendment."... more.

Tim Lynch at Cato writes:  "Unfortunately, the Supreme Court has complicated the law for persons who are the most vulnerable–persons who lack education, persons who do not speak English very well, persons who may suffer from mental problems, and persons who may be under the influence of alcohol. This is a bad day for the Bill of Rights."
Oh, is it time again to say "Fuck Trump gently in the ear with a swarm of pissed-off hornets?"?

Okay. Fuck Trump gently in the ear with a swarm of pissed-off hornets.

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Quote from: MadZealot;112875
"In a 5-4 decision the Supreme Court ruled today that a potential defendant’s silence can be used against him if he is being interviewed by police but is not arrested (and read his Miranda rights) and has not verbally invoked the protection of the Fifth Amendment."... more.

Tim Lynch at Cato writes:  "Unfortunately, the Supreme Court has complicated the law for persons who are the most vulnerable–persons who lack education, persons who do not speak English very well, persons who may suffer from mental problems, and persons who may be under the influence of alcohol. This is a bad day for the Bill of Rights."
Not happy about this at all!
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Quote from: MadZealot;112875


Confusing decision for practical applications.

Expect a lot more ligation and a revisit on this 3 plus 2 to 4 decision.

Also the details of the case are in line with the comment about the under educated, etc being at risk the most.  Salinas didn't say he was invoking his 5th amendment rights, therefore he lost.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2013, 12:37:10 pm by SunflowerP »

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Quote from: MadZealot;112875
"In a 5-4 decision the Supreme Court ruled today that a potential defendant’s silence can be used against him if he is being interviewed by police but is not arrested (and read his Miranda rights) and has not verbally invoked the protection of the Fifth Amendment."... more.

Very silly decision, IMHO.
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SCOTUS: 5th Amendment must be invoked & silence CAN be used against you
« Reply #4 on: June 18, 2013, 08:49:06 am »
Quote from: MadZealot;112875
"In a 5-4 decision the Supreme Court ruled today that a potential defendant’s silence can be used against him if he is being interviewed by police but is not arrested (and read his Miranda rights) and has not verbally invoked the protection of the Fifth Amendment."... more.    


You shouldn't have to speak to guarantee your right to be silent.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2013, 12:36:55 pm by SunflowerP »

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Quote from: Artim Sequoia;112904


 
A Reminder:
Hi, Artim Sequoia,


Just a quick note:  You need to ensure that all of the quote code (that's the stuff inside the square brackets) remains intact, to provide the trackback link to the post you're responding to. It's that trackback that's the reason quoting is required by  our  rules. All the code you need will come up automatically when you hit 'reply with quote' unless you're using Tapatalk; you just have to be careful not to delete it if you're trimming quoted text.  (If you're using tapatalk on a phone, please hold your finger down on the message you wish to reply to until the quote function pops up.)

I've fixed it for you this time (what was missing was the username/post number part of the code), because you'd clearly tried to repair the problem, but please be more careful in future.

This isn't a formal warning, just a reminder.  No  reply is necessary, but if you have questions or need clarification,  please feel free to contact a member of staff privately.

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Quote from: RandallS;112894
Very silly decision, IMHO.

 
Yes it is, and in application it makes Miranda readings irrelevant.  If you're expected to know your rights and when to invoke them, then LE doesn't need to remind you of them anymore.  If you don't say anything, and they don't tell you... well that just opens the door for a whole slew of abuses.  At this point I'm tempted to say something pithy about a police state, but that can't happen here, right?
Oh, is it time again to say "Fuck Trump gently in the ear with a swarm of pissed-off hornets?"?

Okay. Fuck Trump gently in the ear with a swarm of pissed-off hornets.

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SCOTUS: 5th Amendment must be invoked & silence CAN be used against you
« Reply #7 on: June 18, 2013, 02:29:13 pm »
Quote from: SunflowerP;112922
A Reminder:
Hi, Artim Sequoia,


Just a quick note:  You need to ensure that all of the quote code (that's the stuff inside the square brackets) remains intact, to provide the trackback link to the post you're responding to. It's that trackback that's the reason quoting is required by  our  rules. All the code you need will come up automatically when you hit 'reply with quote' unless you're using Tapatalk; you just have to be careful not to delete it if you're trimming quoted text.  (If you're using tapatalk on a phone, please hold your finger down on the message you wish to reply to until the quote function pops up.)

I've fixed it for you this time (what was missing was the username/post number part of the code), because you'd clearly tried to repair the problem, but please be more careful in future.

This isn't a formal warning, just a reminder.  No  reply is necessary, but if you have questions or need clarification,  please feel free to contact a member of staff privately.

Thanks!
Sunflower, TC Forum Staff

Thank you for being anal retentive and disrupting the line of conversation even more.

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Quote from: Artim Sequoia;112928
Thank you for being anal retentive and disrupting the line of conversation even more.

 
*** MOD HAT ON ***

Artim Sequoia,

There are multiple rules violations here.

1. You have argued a mod call in public.
2. You have made a personal attack against a member.
3. You have told another member how to post.

This is your first warning.  I suggest you re-read the rules.

Melamphoros, TC Board Staff


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Quote from: MadZealot;112925
Yes it is, and in application it makes Miranda readings irrelevant.  If you're expected to know your rights and when to invoke them, then LE doesn't need to remind you of them anymore.

There seem to be trying to turn the 5th Amendment from a right (which one always has) to a privilege (which one must invoke to get). Of course, the government today would like ton do that with the entire Bill of Rights. And it's pretty much both major and most minor parties -- so putting a different party in power would not change anything on this issue.
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MadZealot

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Quote from: RandallS;112946
There seem to be trying to turn the 5th Amendment from a right (which one always has) to a privilege (which one must invoke to get). Of course, the government today would like to do that with the entire Bill of Rights.

They seem to forget that rights are innate and "always on."
 
Amazing isn't it.  All the recent "scandals" have shown beyond a doubt how out of control the government has become.  It's just been getting worse... more so over the last two presidencies.

You're right about the parties-- the Big Two only materially differ on points of social issues.  Other than that their platform is about maintaining power regardless of who the current Dweller is.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2013, 03:54:58 pm by MadZealot »
Oh, is it time again to say "Fuck Trump gently in the ear with a swarm of pissed-off hornets?"?

Okay. Fuck Trump gently in the ear with a swarm of pissed-off hornets.

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Quote from: MadZealot;112951

You're right about the parties-- the Big Two only materially differ on points of social issues.  Other than that their platform is about maintaining power regardless of who the current Dweller is.

 
I get the feeling that pretty much all of the current problems with the US political establishment would be solved if people took Washington's warning about political parties seriously.  From where I'm sitting, no actual progress is being made because of that desire to maintain power.  Since that won't be changing anytime soon, I have pretty much given up any pretense of caring what those people do.


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Quote from: Melamphoros;112953
I get the feeling that pretty much all of the current problems with the US political establishment would be solved if people took Washington's warning about political parties seriously.  From where I'm sitting, no actual progress is being made because of that desire to maintain power.  Since that won't be changing anytime soon, I have pretty much given up any pretense of caring what those people do.
My feelings exactly!!!
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MadZealot

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Quote from: Melamphoros;112953
I get the feeling that pretty much all of the current problems with the US political establishment would be solved if people took Washington's warning about political parties seriously.  From where I'm sitting, no actual progress is being made because of that desire to maintain power.  Since that won't be changing anytime soon, I have pretty much given up any pretense of caring what those people do.

 
I wouldn't care if the decisions they made had no real impact on We the People.
Oh, is it time again to say "Fuck Trump gently in the ear with a swarm of pissed-off hornets?"?

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sailor

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Quote from: RandallS;112946
There seem to be trying to turn the 5th Amendment from a right (which one always has) to a privilege (which one must invoke to get). Of course, the government today would like ton do that with the entire Bill of Rights. And it's pretty much both major and most minor parties -- so putting a different party in power would not change anything on this issue.

 
Well, sort of.  LE didn't force him to say anything. They used his evasion as evidence against him.  

In some ways this isn't all that different than existing law when it comes to actual court rooms. It's also in line with pre-Miranda rulings.  In a court, if you are called to testify, you must answer any questions asked unless 1) you invoke your 5th amendment right OR 2) the opposing counsel objects to the question (before you answer it).

That being said, it's a ruling that is bad for the people, and for LE.

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