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Author Topic: Ruth Bader Ginsburg is dead, and perhaps so is the U.S.  (Read 1350 times)

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Ruth Bader Ginsburg is dead, and perhaps so is the U.S.
« on: September 18, 2020, 08:36:59 pm »
The United States is screwed. This may be the final nail in our coffin.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/18/us/ruth-bader-ginsburg-dead.html
The first song sets the wheel in motion / The second is a song of love / The third song tells of Her devotion / The fourth cries joy from the sky above
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The last song echoes through the ages / to ask its question all night long / And close the circle on these pages / These, the metamythos songs

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Re: Ruth Bader Ginsburg is dead, and perhaps so is the U.S.
« Reply #1 on: September 18, 2020, 09:08:13 pm »
The United States is screwed. This may be the final nail in our coffin.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/18/us/ruth-bader-ginsburg-dead.html

I'm alarmed, but mostly at the moment I feel angry that the freedoms and safety of so many marginalized people depended on the continued survival of one elderly woman with cancer. I don't think we're done and in need of being stuck with a fork just yet, though.

Ginsberg went to her death writing to her granddaughter that it was her most fervent wish that she not be replaced until we have a new president.* Dying wishes have some oomph, and we need to remember that she would want us to politicize her death. We have to keep making noise and putting pressure on our malfeasant leaders.

* Unfortunately, Biden is not great about Roe v. Wade himself, so that worries me too, but his choice would still not be anywhere near as horrific as Trump's or indeed any Republican president's.
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Re: Ruth Bader Ginsburg is dead, and perhaps so is the U.S.
« Reply #2 on: September 19, 2020, 07:49:06 am »
The United States is screwed. This may be the final nail in our coffin.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/18/us/ruth-bader-ginsburg-dead.html

So I don't know all the details of the American system in connection to appointing the justices. Is there any power which can be used to prevent the president from putting a crony in? Any controls held by the people in this regard or legal rules to prevent too much power?

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Re: Ruth Bader Ginsburg is dead, and perhaps so is the U.S.
« Reply #3 on: September 19, 2020, 10:21:31 am »
So I don't know all the details of the American system in connection to appointing the justices. Is there any power which can be used to prevent the president from putting a crony in? Any controls held by the people in this regard or legal rules to prevent too much power?

From https://www.supremecourt.gov/about/faq_general.aspx

Quote
The President nominates someone for a vacancy on the Court and the Senate votes to confirm the nominee, which requires a simple majority. In this way, both the Executive and Legislative Branches of the federal government have a voice in the composition of the Supreme Court.

Which is of course, why this gets tremendously messy. As a friend pointed out last night, there are 46 days between now and the election, and the shortest ever recent confirmation was RBG, which took 50 days. (the average since the 70s is apparently 67). The basic process involves the president putting forward a list of names, a short list is then vetted further, and then there's the confirmation process in the Senate.

Usually the short list of nominees has been vetted before being put forward, but there's then a "Let's read everything this person has ever done" by everyone else, which you can't just snap your fingers and do, given how dense and lengthy legal writing is... Plus various procedural things, which also take some time. Which is where the politics get difficult.

I suspect that within the next day you should see an explanatory article with details and useful charts in your news source of choice, too.
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Re: Ruth Bader Ginsburg is dead, and perhaps so is the U.S.
« Reply #4 on: September 19, 2020, 05:47:20 pm »
I don't think we're done and in need of being stuck with a fork just yet, though

So after initial despair and panic, I’ve settled into a realization:

RBG’s death has been the GOP dream…but RBG’s death *now* is the GOP’s worst nightmare.

—They’re obligated by their base to push for a replacement before the election
—That brazenness will energize us on the Left, to the point that while they were facing a potential blue wave on Nov. 3, they now will face a certain blue tsunami
—Whether they succeed in that appointment or not doesn’t matter, because what once was a marginal idea—expanding the number of justices on the court—has abruptly become a mainstream view
—The GOP is swept away in November, and we take corrective action (and then some) with SCOTUS by Biden appointing and a Dem Senate confirming a score of justices

As a side note, the GOP brazenness in trying to fill the vacancy, after they bottled up Merrick Garland's appointment by Obama, will play very poorly with the undecided middle.

Maybe I’m just trying to make myself feel better, but I don’t think so; if we on the Left do the work for the election, I think this is exactly how it will play out.

I cite as evidence:
Democrats shatter ActBlue’s donation records after Ginsburg’s death
https://www.nytimes.com/live/2020/09/18/us/trump-vs-biden#democrats-shatter-actblues-donation-records-after-ginsburgs-death
The first song sets the wheel in motion / The second is a song of love / The third song tells of Her devotion / The fourth cries joy from the sky above
The fifth song binds our fate to silence / and bids us live each moment well / The sixth unleashes rage and violence / The seventh song has truth to tell
The last song echoes through the ages / to ask its question all night long / And close the circle on these pages / These, the metamythos songs

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Re: Ruth Bader Ginsburg is dead, and perhaps so is the U.S.
« Reply #5 on: September 19, 2020, 07:51:38 pm »
RBG’s death has been the GOP dream…but RBG’s death *now* is the GOP’s worst nightmare.

<snip>

As a side note, the GOP brazenness in trying to fill the vacancy, after they bottled up Merrick Garland's appointment by Obama, will play very poorly with the undecided middle.

Maybe I’m just trying to make myself feel better, but I don’t think so; if we on the Left do the work for the election, I think this is exactly how it will play out.

I'm cynical about how long the memories of the Middle are, but other than that, I'm inclined to agree wth you (and one of the main lines of activism will be to remind the Middle of the blocking of Garland) - I just hope it's enough.

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Re: Ruth Bader Ginsburg is dead, and perhaps so is the U.S.
« Reply #6 on: September 20, 2020, 07:22:45 pm »
I'm cynical about how long the memories of the Middle are, but other than that, I'm inclined to agree wth you (and one of the main lines of activism will be to remind the Middle of the blocking of Garland) - I just hope it's enough.

Sunflower

Short memories are definitely a thing. Here are some quotes to help people refresh them. All are from 2016.

"It has been 80 years since a Supreme Court vacancy was nominated and confirmed in an election year. There is a long tradition that you don't do this in an election year."
-- Lyin' Ted Cruz.

“The American people should have a voice in the selection of their next Supreme Court Justice. Therefore, this vacancy should not be filled until we have a new president.”
-- Mitch "Turtle MgGurtle" McConnell.

"I want you to use my words against me. If there's a Republican president in 2016 and a vacancy occurs in the last year of the first term, you can say Lindsey Graham said, 'Let's let the next president, whoever it might be, make that nomination.' And you could use my words against me and you'd be absolutely right."
-- Lindsey "Lady G" Graham.

I haven't voted for a Democratic POTUS since BJ Clinton in '92. I will vote a straight Dem ticket this time. Fuck these spineless, unprincipled, hypocritical Republican fucks.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2020, 07:26:14 pm by MadZealot »
Oh, is it time again to say "Fuck Trump gently in the ear with a swarm of pissed-off hornets?"?

Okay. Fuck Trump gently in the ear with a swarm of pissed-off hornets.

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Re: Ruth Bader Ginsburg is dead, and perhaps so is the U.S.
« Reply #7 on: September 21, 2020, 10:20:37 am »
So after initial despair and panic, I’ve settled into a realization:

RBG’s death has been the GOP dream…but RBG’s death *now* is the GOP’s worst nightmare.

—They’re obligated by their base to push for a replacement before the election
—That brazenness will energize us on the Left, to the point that while they were facing a potential blue wave on Nov. 3, they now will face a certain blue tsunami

The left in the USA barely exists and has no deep organization, no real leadership, no overall guiding principles. As for the Democrats (who are center-right) their blue wave is far from certain. The Democrats' problem has never been a shortage of money; rather, their priority is pleasing big donors, with winning elections coming second. From that perspective, four more years of noisy but ineffectual "resistance" suits them just fine. Winning is great too but they're not going to do anything too crazy for it.

For the expansion of the courts to happen would require control of both houses of congress as well as the White House.

What makes things better, or keeps them from getting worse, is popular, mass organizing. Only when there's a popular movement on the ground do the judges, congress, etc. pay any attention. Waiting for a handful of elites to rule in our interest keeps us weak and confused.

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Re: Ruth Bader Ginsburg is dead, and perhaps so is the U.S.
« Reply #8 on: September 21, 2020, 06:55:44 pm »
Short memories are definitely a thing. Here are some quotes to help people refresh them. All are from 2016.

"It has been 80 years since a Supreme Court vacancy was nominated and confirmed in an election year. There is a long tradition that you don't do this in an election year."
-- Lyin' Ted Cruz.

“The American people should have a voice in the selection of their next Supreme Court Justice. Therefore, this vacancy should not be filled until we have a new president.”
-- Mitch "Turtle MgGurtle" McConnell.

"I want you to use my words against me. If there's a Republican president in 2016 and a vacancy occurs in the last year of the first term, you can say Lindsey Graham said, 'Let's let the next president, whoever it might be, make that nomination.' And you could use my words against me and you'd be absolutely right."
-- Lindsey "Lady G" Graham.

Ooh, nice. Do you happen to have links to sources for these? If I'mma tweet them, I want to make sure they not only are solid, but can be seen to be solid.

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Re: Ruth Bader Ginsburg is dead, and perhaps so is the U.S.
« Reply #9 on: September 21, 2020, 09:58:00 pm »
Ooh, nice. Do you happen to have links to sources for these? If I'mma tweet them, I want to make sure they not only are solid, but can be seen to be solid.

Sunflower

Even better, there is A Whole God Damned List.
Oh, is it time again to say "Fuck Trump gently in the ear with a swarm of pissed-off hornets?"?

Okay. Fuck Trump gently in the ear with a swarm of pissed-off hornets.

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Re: Ruth Bader Ginsburg is dead, and perhaps so is the U.S.
« Reply #10 on: September 22, 2020, 01:17:59 pm »
Even better, there is A Whole God Damned List.

OMGZ. That is glorious. <rubs hands together with schadenfreudeous* glee> TYVM!

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Re: Ruth Bader Ginsburg is dead, and perhaps so is the U.S.
« Reply #11 on: September 22, 2020, 01:22:29 pm »

Also, in re your .sig: Hell no. UNfuck him. Fucking is much too good for him.

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Re: Ruth Bader Ginsburg is dead, and perhaps so is the U.S.
« Reply #12 on: September 22, 2020, 03:21:45 pm »
Also, in re your .sig: Hell no. UNfuck him. Fucking is much too good for him.

Sunflower

Fair enough.   ;D
Oh, is it time again to say "Fuck Trump gently in the ear with a swarm of pissed-off hornets?"?

Okay. Fuck Trump gently in the ear with a swarm of pissed-off hornets.

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Re: Ruth Bader Ginsburg is dead, and perhaps so is the U.S.
« Reply #13 on: September 23, 2020, 01:28:57 am »
The United States is screwed. This may be the final nail in our coffin.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/18/us/ruth-bader-ginsburg-dead.html

I pretty much agree with you there. I just don't know why we're even considering nominating a new supreme court judge at this time. I think it's offensive personally since she just died.
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Re: Ruth Bader Ginsburg is dead, and perhaps so is the U.S.
« Reply #14 on: September 24, 2020, 08:57:42 am »
I pretty much agree with you there. I just don't know why we're even considering nominating a new supreme court judge at this time. I think it's offensive personally since she just died.

I've swung back to panic and pessimism myself. There's an alternate scenario to the one I described above:

--Trump nominates a hard-right lackey as the new Supreme Court justice and gets her confirmed before the election (at this point, that's nearly a given)

--Despite losing at the ballot box on Nov. 3, Trump uses lies and the powers of the presidency to delay, deny, and give his "rigged!" message (already being pounded home over and over) a veneer of plausibility

--Deemed "disputed," the election results go to the Supreme Court for final adjudication: a court now packed with his conservative lackeys beholden to him, who throw the win to Trump

So a stolen Supreme Court seat steals the election for the man who stole the seat.

That, ladies and gentlemen, is a coup. Nothing less. And it is a very real possibility for the United States in 2020. 
The first song sets the wheel in motion / The second is a song of love / The third song tells of Her devotion / The fourth cries joy from the sky above
The fifth song binds our fate to silence / and bids us live each moment well / The sixth unleashes rage and violence / The seventh song has truth to tell
The last song echoes through the ages / to ask its question all night long / And close the circle on these pages / These, the metamythos songs

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