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Author Topic: Republicans pro-tax...On Middle class  (Read 5532 times)

Skyth

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Republicans pro-tax...On Middle class
« on: August 22, 2011, 11:34:13 am »
I was reading in the newspaper today that the Republicans want to get rid of the FICA tax break that Obama passed to stimulate the economy.  Kind of funny that they fight tooth and nail to lower taxes for the wealthy, but are pro-raising taxes on the poor...Something isn't right there.

Skyth

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Re: Republicans pro-tax...On Middle class
« Reply #1 on: August 22, 2011, 11:46:48 am »
Quote from: Skyth;14780

 
Another story on it

Etheric1

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Re: Republicans pro-tax...On Middle class
« Reply #2 on: August 22, 2011, 12:09:07 pm »
Quote from: Skyth;14783
Another story on it

 
Why people vote for that gods-awful party is truly beyond me.  Granted, the Dems are not much better for other reasons, but still..  :mad:
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sailor

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Re: Republicans pro-tax...On Middle class
« Reply #3 on: August 22, 2011, 05:05:16 pm »
Quote from: Skyth;14780
I was reading in the newspaper today that the Republicans want to get rid of the FICA tax break that Obama passed to stimulate the economy.  Kind of funny that they fight tooth and nail to lower taxes for the wealthy, but are pro-raising taxes on the poor...Something isn't right there.

 
It's politics.  The GOP will let Obama / Dems get the extension of the FICA tax holiday (a tax increase, based upon recent GOP statements) and get something else in exchange.

Skyth

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Re: Republicans pro-tax...On Middle class
« Reply #4 on: August 22, 2011, 07:01:51 pm »
Quote from: sailor;14868
It's politics.  The GOP will let Obama / Dems get the extension of the FICA tax holiday (a tax increase, based upon recent GOP statements) and get something else in exchange.

 
Doesn't make it any less wrong and unethical.  Not to mention, it shows the GOP's real motivation (To hurt Obama/Democrats rather than to help the country)

treekisser

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Re: Republicans pro-tax...On Middle class
« Reply #5 on: August 22, 2011, 07:12:05 pm »
Quote from: Skyth;14914
Doesn't make it any less wrong and unethical.  Not to mention, it shows the GOP's real motivation (To hurt Obama/Democrats rather than to help the country)

This is one of the things I find most contemptible about politics - the whole 'I'll give you this in exchange for that' thing. Political plans come as a whole; isn't it better to give the elected party a chance to try and implement it all (and see if it works out as planned) rather than mess it up by forcing compromises and dilutions?

IMHO there should be an incentive system for opposition politicians to discuss government plans critically but also stand back and give those plans - where they form part of a coherent whole - a shot.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2011, 07:16:02 pm by treekisser »

EJay

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Re: Republicans pro-tax...On Middle class
« Reply #6 on: September 25, 2011, 05:29:35 am »
f
Quote from: Skyth;14914
Doesn't make it any less wrong and unethical.  Not to mention, it shows the GOP's real motivation (To hurt Obama/Democrats rather than to help the country)

Really?  Does helping the country involve the government taking from those who will and redistributing it to those who won't and to those who simply don't want to put forth the effort to do so?

Let's look at one of the biggest issues:  taxes.  Should the rich pay their fair share?  Hmmm... what's fair....

This year, households making more than $1 million will pay an average of 29.1 percent of their income in federal taxes, including income taxes and payroll taxes, according to the Tax Policy Center, a Washington think tank.

Households making between $50,000 and $75,000 will pay 15 percent of their income in federal taxes.

Lower-income households will pay less. For example, households making between $40,000 and $50,000 will pay an average of 12.5 percent of their income in federal taxes. Households making between $20,000 and $30,000 will pay 5.7 percent.
*

*

You're right.  That's not fair.

The GOP believes that Obama is out to hurt the country, to stifle individualism and not allow for radical thinking outside the government's mandates.  The GOP believes that people are created equal but as life progresses, don't pull me down to build yourself up.

I'm not blind and naive--I'm a libertarian, not a Republican--but it drives me crazy when folks don't research both sides of an issue.  I can play Devil's Advocate on almost anything, because I know there's two sides to every coin and it's our responsibility to make sure we know the facts, not just the media's parade.

Tell you what.  I'll go to work so that I can pay for... that guy.  There's motivation.  Oh wait!  In the meantime, that guy's doing what?  Waiting for Obama Dollars.

All people are created equal.  I believe that's somewhere in our Constitution.  What happens after that is up to the individual, not the government--city, state, or federal!

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EJay
« Last Edit: September 25, 2011, 05:33:12 am by EJay »
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EJay

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Re: Republicans pro-tax...On Middle class
« Reply #7 on: September 25, 2011, 05:37:10 am »
Quote from: Skyth;14914
Doesn't make it any less wrong and unethical.  Not to mention, it shows the GOP's real motivation (To hurt Obama/Democrats rather than to help the country)

 
Really?  Does helping the country involve the government taking from those who will and redistributing it to those who won't and to those who simply don't want to put forth the effort to do so?

Let's look at one of the biggest issues:  taxes.  Should the rich pay their fair share?  Hmmm... what's fair....

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/ap-fact-checks-obama-are-the-wealthy-really-taxed-less-than-secretaries/

This year, households making more than $1 million will pay an average of 29.1 percent of their income in federal taxes, including income taxes and payroll taxes, according to the Tax Policy Center, a Washington think tank.

Households making between $50,000 and $75,000 will pay 15 percent of their income in federal taxes.

Lower-income households will pay less. For example, households making between $40,000 and $50,000 will pay an average of 12.5 percent of their income in federal taxes. Households making between $20,000 and $30,000 will pay 5.7 percent.


You're right.  That's not fair.

The GOP believes that Obama is out to hurt the country, to stifle individualism and not allow for radical thinking outside the government's mandates.  The GOP believes that people are created equal but as life progresses, don't pull me down to build yourself up.

I'm not blind and naive--I'm a libertarian, not a Republican--but it drives me crazy when folks don't research both sides of an issue.  I can play Devil's Advocate on almost anything, because I know there's two sides to every coin and it's our responsibility to make sure we know the facts, not just the media's parade.

Tell you what.  I'll go to work so that I can pay for... that guy.  There's motivation.  Oh wait!  In the meantime, that guy's doing what?  Waiting for Obama Dollars.

All people are created equal.  I believe that's somewhere in our Constitution.  What happens after that is up to the individual, not the government--city, state, or federal!

Best~
EJay
If you understand, things are just as they are.  If you do not understand, things are just as they are.

HeartShadow

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Re: Republicans pro-tax...On Middle class
« Reply #8 on: September 25, 2011, 06:45:31 am »
Quote from: EJay;22103


 
So, wait, no taxes at all?  Is that the argument?

Because we've got a choice - pay for schools now, or prisons later.  Pay for healthcare now or cover insane ER bills later.

A safety net is NOT a handout to the people that are just being slobs.  YES, some people will take advantage of that.  Are you telling me that libertarianism doesn't involve people taking advantage of the system?

Taxes pay for things.  MOST of your tax money goes to things like military and infrastructure.  The constant harping on the VERY SMALL percentages that are safety-net issues drive me crazy.

Really want lower taxes?  Get rid of the military and walk to work.  :p

Marilyn/Absentminded

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Re: Republicans pro-tax...On Middle class
« Reply #9 on: September 25, 2011, 08:28:38 am »
Quote from: HeartShadow;22105
A safety net is NOT a handout to the people that are just being slobs.  YES, some people will take advantage of that.

It's interesting how 'taking advantage' is perceived according to the general standard of living.

When times are good and most people have jobs there is less resistance to paying for a social net, although the perception that people are on it because they want to be is still fairly common.

When times are bad, however, and more people are using whatever is available because their lives got turned inside out and they can't survive without it, the perception switches to 'all these people that would rather take hand-outs than get out there and work' and social programs everywhere become in danger of being cut or dissolved entirely.

At least part of this is an attempt at self-reassurance.  'The people on these programs have chosen to be there.  If I don't choose to be there, I will keep my job and position.  Why should I use my insecure dollars to help those who have chosen to be needy.'  It is usually a great shock when/if they find themselves in that position.  In fact many see it as a special case.  'Yes, I need this help.  If the system wasn't crowded by people that don't need/deserve it I would get it.'  So the newly poor often maintain these attitudes even while 'taking advantage' of the system themselves.

I noticed this during the last big recession, and was around for the profitable times in between, when people were much more caring and open about taking care of society's least able members.  It's not just greed or hard-heartedness - it's insecurity.

People who are taxed at a higher rate because they have more still have a much higher after-tax income than people who are taxed at a lower rate because they don't have as much.  I don't think that's particularly unfair, but I can see how the idea of one person with a high income paying thirty percent and another with a lower income paying five looks very unfair on the surface.

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« Last Edit: September 25, 2011, 08:30:11 am by Marilyn/Absentminded »
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Darkhawk

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Re: Republicans pro-tax...On Middle class
« Reply #10 on: September 25, 2011, 01:32:50 pm »
Quote from: Marilyn/Absentminded;22119

People who are taxed at a higher rate because they have more still have a much higher after-tax income than people who are taxed at a lower rate because they don't have as much.  I don't think that's particularly unfair, but I can see how the idea of one person with a high income paying thirty percent and another with a lower income paying five looks very unfair on the surface.

 
Sales tax here is over 6%.

Federal payroll taxes are 6.2% up to about a $100K income and nothing on higher stuff.  Medicare taxes are another percentage and a half point.

The Federal gas tax is 18.4 cents per gallon.  The state gas tax here is 23 and a half cents per gallon or so.

Anyone who claims that poorer people don't pay taxes is a liar.


Meanwhile, the long-term capital gains tax rate is between 10% and 20% lower than the income tax rate, meaning that those of us who actually work for a living - disproportionately poorer people - pay more in tax on our income.
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Owl

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Re: Republicans pro-tax...On Middle class
« Reply #11 on: September 25, 2011, 02:41:43 pm »
Quote from: Darkhawk;22166
Sales tax here is over 6%.

Federal payroll taxes are 6.2% up to about a $100K income and nothing on higher stuff.  Medicare taxes are another percentage and a half point.

.




I'm agreeing with you but a small correction - Social Security taxes are the 6.2%.  Federal income taxes start at 0 and work up through 10% (of the amount over your exemptions and standard deduction) and 15% and above.
Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.

Darkhawk

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Re: Republicans pro-tax...On Middle class
« Reply #12 on: September 25, 2011, 02:54:45 pm »
Quote from: Owl;22173
Federal income taxes start at 0 and work up through 10% (of the amount over your exemptions and standard deduction) and 15% and above.

 
Yah, I was going for the taxes other than the ones that one fills out the 1040 for, since all the "Some people don't pay any taxes!" lies are based around the idea that the 1040 covers the only taxes that count.
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Owl

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Re: Republicans pro-tax...On Middle class
« Reply #13 on: September 25, 2011, 04:18:03 pm »
Quote from: Darkhawk;22176
Yah, I was going for the taxes other than the ones that one fills out the 1040 for, since all the "Some people don't pay any taxes!" lies are based around the idea that the 1040 covers the only taxes that count.

 
I hear that!  Everyone pays social security and medicare starting with the first dollar they make.  It's only income tax that grows as your income grows.  But try to explain that to a conservative! :hdsk:
Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.

Skyth

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Re: Republicans pro-tax...On Middle class
« Reply #14 on: September 26, 2011, 09:00:52 am »
Quote from: Darkhawk;22166
Meanwhile, the long-term capital gains tax rate is between 10% and 20% lower than the income tax rate, meaning that those of us who actually work for a living - disproportionately poorer people - pay more in tax on our income.


Not to mention that there are no payroll taxes on investment income.

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